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Het-field 
Roy Keane
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 Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:22pm |
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Also, yes, young lads were tried in the first eight games. But there was also a number of players, the ones I'm talking about, who played massive tranches of those eight games.
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coyne
Paul McGrath
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:23pm |
Think it's a no-brainer at this point to start him, I mean aside from the lad at Kilmarnock he's the only Irish goalkeeper getting game time.
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Baldrick
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:25pm |
it’s not an either or. You can have a mix.
In the back four there is clearly a case than Egan, OShea and Clark are all ahead of Duffy for a starting place. Along with Coleman/Doherty/Stevens there is plenty of experience there to fit in O Shea and Kelleher instead of Duffy and Randolph because bother are playing better or More often than their counterpart and at a higher level.
In midfield Cullen is playing plenty of games for Anderlecht and is more suited to the deep position than Hourihane is. The other two positions in central midfield are up for debate but we do need goals in the team and I think Knight and Browne are our best bet for the most attacking of the 3 central midfielders.
The front 3 will probably be made up of Robinson and Connolly both getting sporadic appearances at Premier league level and one other. I wouldn’t have Idah in the team and McGoldrick is a huge loss here in my view as we don’t have a central striker who fits the bill.
Edited by Baldrick - 04 Feb 2021 at 12:26pm
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AKA pedantic kunt
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Fruice
Liam Brady
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:34pm |
fair enough het field agreed some of the senior lads played in those 8 games also but more what I’m referencing is the clamour to bring in fresh faces just cause they are fresh.
For me he has few key decisions to make one is with the keeper he might well choose Kelleher from a style perspective but for me Randolph has saved us more than enough to hold is place at least in the short term. He has a big decision at right back Coleman is clearly better in this role than Doherty but Kenny seems to favour Doherty. On form Duffy has to go but then he was his captain and probably our biggest goal threat. In the middle Hourihane, McCarthy and Hendrick look to be first choice but would he better served getting one out a replacing them with more legs?
And up top you would think 2 of Connolly Robinson and Brady will Start and he likes Idah in the middle but he hasn’t got going this season atall. Could Shane Long with a run of games come in as the central striker?
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horsebox
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:40pm |
 coyne wrote:
Think it's a no-brainer at this point to start him, I mean aside from the lad at Kilmarnock he's the only Irish goalkeeper getting game time.
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Bazuno and Travers are both playing too.
O'Hara might be as well.
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It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Donegalman
Liam Brady
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:48pm |
Fruice wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Honestly, I think one of the biggest hazards for Kenny is the decision to either field young lads who are playing, or have been raised up this year, at club level, or stick with the "Tried and Trusted" (I understand that is not a particularly popular term here). But, I think if Kenny was to play the likes of Kelleher, O'Shea, Collins, Cullen, Molumby, Knight, and Idah, he will rightfully be able to claim praise for attempting to progress Irish football, with a build based on young players. If it doesnt work, it at least looks like efforts were made to rejuvenate the fortunes of the team, by using young and "up and coming players"
The difference is, he could, reasonably select the likes of Randolph (based on the past six years), Duffy, Stevens, McCarthy, Hourihane, Hendrick and Long, but if he does, and the results don't go our way, I think it is the rock he will perish on. It is a conundrum for Kenny. |
There is no conundrum in reality we tried the young lads in the last 8 games and went no where. All they have at the minute is potential The most of them have yet to get where we hoped they would. With maybe the exception of Connolly and Kelleher.
Kenny has no choice but to play the best team on any given day to him in a qualifying campaign. We have much maligned senior players who are playing at levels above the younger players and this is just dismissed by some. You take the example of Conor Hourihane couldn’t get a game with Villa dropped down a level to a championship team and has an instant impact the same would happen with any of our other senior players if they dropped down a level. Yet some of our younger lads who fellas are championing to replace the older players are operating at this level all season and aren’t having the same impact with their clubs.
For me you have to give the young lads time and as the improve bring them into the team. You can’t just change the guard over night.
( also the young lads will still get game time due to injury, suspensions and as subs) |
How can you place the blame on younger players for the last 8 games? O Shea didn’t put a foot wrong in any of his appearances, Molumby picked up two man of the match awards, Knight didn’t play much over those 8 games but done well when he did. The only young player who looked a bit out of his depth was Idah. Why not look at the underperforming “experienced” players? There was mistakes at the back which led to goals from Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Steven’s and even Randolph didn’t cover himself in glory at times. Our non-existent midfield pairing of Hendrick and Hourihane I’ll not even start on them yet the younger players get the blame? I’d happily see O Shea start against Serbia over Duffy, or Steven’s and would certainly take Molumby or Knight over Hendrick who’s last decent game for us was when he hit the crossbar against Sweden.
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Left foot
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:57pm |
I dont think an overhaul is required either but I think you can look at this at a game by game level or a 2 year plan.
Game by game you probably play Randolph in March for his experience if anything.
2 year plan, you play Kelleher so that he can have that experience that 10 or 15 caps gives you as soon as possible. Either way, Randolph will be replaced in a year or so.
The same people who moan how bad Hendrick is in games will also moan if he's replaced by someone with no experience.
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Fruice
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:03pm |
Donegalman wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Honestly, I think one of the biggest hazards for Kenny is the decision to either field young lads who are playing, or have been raised up this year, at club level, or stick with the "Tried and Trusted" (I understand that is not a particularly popular term here). But, I think if Kenny was to play the likes of Kelleher, O'Shea, Collins, Cullen, Molumby, Knight, and Idah, he will rightfully be able to claim praise for attempting to progress Irish football, with a build based on young players. If it doesnt work, it at least looks like efforts were made to rejuvenate the fortunes of the team, by using young and "up and coming players"
The difference is, he could, reasonably select the likes of Randolph (based on the past six years), Duffy, Stevens, McCarthy, Hourihane, Hendrick and Long, but if he does, and the results don't go our way, I think it is the rock he will perish on. It is a conundrum for Kenny. |
There is no conundrum in reality we tried the young lads in the last 8 games and went no where. All they have at the minute is potential The most of them have yet to get where we hoped they would. With maybe the exception of Connolly and Kelleher.
Kenny has no choice but to play the best team on any given day to him in a qualifying campaign. We have much maligned senior players who are playing at levels above the younger players and this is just dismissed by some. You take the example of Conor Hourihane couldn’t get a game with Villa dropped down a level to a championship team and has an instant impact the same would happen with any of our other senior players if they dropped down a level. Yet some of our younger lads who fellas are championing to replace the older players are operating at this level all season and aren’t having the same impact with their clubs.
For me you have to give the young lads time and as the improve bring them into the team. You can’t just change the guard over night.
( also the young lads will still get game time due to injury, suspensions and as subs) |
How can you place the blame on younger players for the last 8 games? O Shea didn’t put a foot wrong in any of his appearances, Molumby picked up two man of the match awards, Knight didn’t play much over those 8 games but done well when he did. The only young player who looked a bit out of his depth was Idah. Why not look at the underperforming “experienced” players? There was mistakes at the back which led to goals from Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Steven’s and even Randolph didn’t cover himself in glory at times. Our non-existent midfield pairing of Hendrick and Hourihane I’ll not even start on them yet the younger players get the blame? I’d happily see O Shea start against Serbia over Duffy, or Steven’s and would certainly take Molumby or Knight over Hendrick who’s last decent game for us was when he hit the crossbar against Sweden. |
Have I not clearly explained my self over this post and my reply to Hatfield. I have highlighted some of points you make if you care to reference my second post. I have also highlighted how some of the senior pros have done since so have a read of both posts if you like. And see if any of your concerns are addressed
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Fruice
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:03pm |
Left foot wrote:
I dont think an overhaul is required either but I think you can look at this at a game by game level or a 2 year plan.
Game by game you probably play Randolph in March for his experience if anything.
2 year plan, you play Kelleher so that he can have that experience that 10 or 15 caps gives you as soon as possible. Either way, Randolph will be replaced in a year or so.
The same people who moan how bad Hendrick is in games will also moan if he's replaced by someone with no experience.
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Do you think Kenny has the luxury of a 2 year plan?
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Devrozex
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:20pm |
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I think you're straying into dangerous territory as a football manager if you are ever attempting to do anything other than picking the best team available to you. While there's no doubt Kelleher is the better longer term bet than Randolph, the real question is around whether he is the better option right now. And I think there's enough to suggest he may well be, as great a servant as Randolph has been for us.
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coyne
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:22pm |
horsebox wrote:
coyne wrote:
Think it's a no-brainer at this point to start him, I mean aside from the lad at Kilmarnock he's the only Irish goalkeeper getting game time.
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Bazuno and Travers are both playing too.
O'Hara might be as well. |
More the reason why Randolph shouldn’t even be considered. It’d be an insult to the keepers getting game time to be behind someone who has played 0 minutes.
It wasn’t so long ago when we had a League 1 keeper as our first choice - The lad at Millwall, forgot his name now, but it was deserved because he was playing weekly
Edit: David Forde
Edited by coyne - 04 Feb 2021 at 1:30pm
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Donegalman
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:36pm |
Fruice wrote:
Donegalman wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Honestly, I think one of the biggest hazards for Kenny is the decision to either field young lads who are playing, or have been raised up this year, at club level, or stick with the "Tried and Trusted" (I understand that is not a particularly popular term here). But, I think if Kenny was to play the likes of Kelleher, O'Shea, Collins, Cullen, Molumby, Knight, and Idah, he will rightfully be able to claim praise for attempting to progress Irish football, with a build based on young players. If it doesnt work, it at least looks like efforts were made to rejuvenate the fortunes of the team, by using young and "up and coming players"
The difference is, he could, reasonably select the likes of Randolph (based on the past six years), Duffy, Stevens, McCarthy, Hourihane, Hendrick and Long, but if he does, and the results don't go our way, I think it is the rock he will perish on. It is a conundrum for Kenny. |
There is no conundrum in reality we tried the young lads in the last 8 games and went no where. All they have at the minute is potential The most of them have yet to get where we hoped they would. With maybe the exception of Connolly and Kelleher.
Kenny has no choice but to play the best team on any given day to him in a qualifying campaign. We have much maligned senior players who are playing at levels above the younger players and this is just dismissed by some. You take the example of Conor Hourihane couldn’t get a game with Villa dropped down a level to a championship team and has an instant impact the same would happen with any of our other senior players if they dropped down a level. Yet some of our younger lads who fellas are championing to replace the older players are operating at this level all season and aren’t having the same impact with their clubs.
For me you have to give the young lads time and as the improve bring them into the team. You can’t just change the guard over night.
( also the young lads will still get game time due to injury, suspensions and as subs) |
How can you place the blame on younger players for the last 8 games? O Shea didn’t put a foot wrong in any of his appearances, Molumby picked up two man of the match awards, Knight didn’t play much over those 8 games but done well when he did. The only young player who looked a bit out of his depth was Idah. Why not look at the underperforming “experienced” players? There was mistakes at the back which led to goals from Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Steven’s and even Randolph didn’t cover himself in glory at times. Our non-existent midfield pairing of Hendrick and Hourihane I’ll not even start on them yet the younger players get the blame? I’d happily see O Shea start against Serbia over Duffy, or Steven’s and would certainly take Molumby or Knight over Hendrick who’s last decent game for us was when he hit the crossbar against Sweden. |
Have I not clearly explained my self over this post and my reply to Hatfield. I have highlighted some of points you make if you care to reference my second post. I have also highlighted how some of the senior pros have done since so have a read of both posts if you like. And see if any of your concerns are addressed
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You didn’t really clearly explain it. Is there actually anyone wanting to “bring in fresh faces just cause they are fresh”? Any of the players like Kelleher, O Shea, Molumby and Knight would be selected on merit not just “cause they are fresh faces”. A lot of the decisions are not easy but if Kenny is able to drop Coleman the captain for Doherty who’s underperforming this season then there shouldn’t be any question in regards to dropping Duffy. Players should be picked on merit no matter that the age is
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Fozz
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:43pm |
I'd start Kelleher but we'll have to accept that his inexperience and general possession-type style may cost us in a match. There's good points above referencing calls to play Champ players in place of PL players or in place of better Champ players on form (Hourihane now).
The big question is are we focused on getting pts now or on a longer-term plan.
I think SK has to juggle both and I believe the preference for the former will outweigh the latter and we will see Randolph, Duffy, Hourihane and Hendrick start in Belgrade.
Hendrick is playing in the PL weekly and played OK for us in Autumn. Seems a shoe-in.
Hourihane has shown he has what it takes to influence games and results at Championship level so to pick other players at that level just because they are younger seems unlikely.
Now Duffy and Randolph should be dropped in my view, one for a lack of form and the other for a lack of games. Kelleher and O'Shea should start as they seem to be low-level risks in the short-term but also longer term investments.
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Left foot
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:45pm |
Fruice wrote:
Left foot wrote:
I dont think an overhaul is required either but I think you can look at this at a game by game level or a 2 year plan.
Game by game you probably play Randolph in March for his experience if anything.
2 year plan, you play Kelleher so that he can have that experience that 10 or 15 caps gives you as soon as possible. Either way, Randolph will be replaced in a year or so.
The same people who moan how bad Hendrick is in games will also moan if he's replaced by someone with no experience.
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Do you think Kenny has the luxury of a 2 year plan? |
Fair point fruice and id agree that no manager has 2 years guaranteed.
My point is more around putting team selection into perspective.
Is picking Collins, who has no international experience, over Duffy, who has a lot of experience, the right decision at this point?
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coyne
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:50pm |
Left foot wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Left foot wrote:
I dont think an overhaul is required either but I think you can look at this at a game by game level or a 2 year plan.
Game by game you probably play Randolph in March for his experience if anything.
2 year plan, you play Kelleher so that he can have that experience that 10 or 15 caps gives you as soon as possible. Either way, Randolph will be replaced in a year or so.
The same people who moan how bad Hendrick is in games will also moan if he's replaced by someone with no experience.
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Do you think Kenny has the luxury of a 2 year plan? |
Fair point fruice and id agree that no manager has 2 years guaranteed.
My point is more around putting team selection into perspective.
Is picking Collins, who has no international experience, over Duffy, who has a lot of experience, the right decision at this point?
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Yes and this is before form comes into consideration.
If he wants defenders who can play from the back, Duffy must be dropped, it’s that easy really. If he’s just gonna shoehorn players in a system which isn’t suitable then the whole system collapses
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Fruice
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:56pm |
Donegalman wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Donegalman wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Honestly, I think one of the biggest hazards for Kenny is the decision to either field young lads who are playing, or have been raised up this year, at club level, or stick with the "Tried and Trusted" (I understand that is not a particularly popular term here). But, I think if Kenny was to play the likes of Kelleher, O'Shea, Collins, Cullen, Molumby, Knight, and Idah, he will rightfully be able to claim praise for attempting to progress Irish football, with a build based on young players. If it doesnt work, it at least looks like efforts were made to rejuvenate the fortunes of the team, by using young and "up and coming players"
The difference is, he could, reasonably select the likes of Randolph (based on the past six years), Duffy, Stevens, McCarthy, Hourihane, Hendrick and Long, but if he does, and the results don't go our way, I think it is the rock he will perish on. It is a conundrum for Kenny. |
There is no conundrum in reality we tried the young lads in the last 8 games and went no where. All they have at the minute is potential The most of them have yet to get where we hoped they would. With maybe the exception of Connolly and Kelleher.
Kenny has no choice but to play the best team on any given day to him in a qualifying campaign. We have much maligned senior players who are playing at levels above the younger players and this is just dismissed by some. You take the example of Conor Hourihane couldn’t get a game with Villa dropped down a level to a championship team and has an instant impact the same would happen with any of our other senior players if they dropped down a level. Yet some of our younger lads who fellas are championing to replace the older players are operating at this level all season and aren’t having the same impact with their clubs.
For me you have to give the young lads time and as the improve bring them into the team. You can’t just change the guard over night.
( also the young lads will still get game time due to injury, suspensions and as subs) |
How can you place the blame on younger players for the last 8 games? O Shea didn’t put a foot wrong in any of his appearances, Molumby picked up two man of the match awards, Knight didn’t play much over those 8 games but done well when he did. The only young player who looked a bit out of his depth was Idah. Why not look at the underperforming “experienced” players? There was mistakes at the back which led to goals from Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Steven’s and even Randolph didn’t cover himself in glory at times. Our non-existent midfield pairing of Hendrick and Hourihane I’ll not even start on them yet the younger players get the blame? I’d happily see O Shea start against Serbia over Duffy, or Steven’s and would certainly take Molumby or Knight over Hendrick who’s last decent game for us was when he hit the crossbar against Sweden. |
Have I not clearly explained my self over this post and my reply to Hatfield. I have highlighted some of points you make if you care to reference my second post. I have also highlighted how some of the senior pros have done since so have a read of both posts if you like. And see if any of your concerns are addressed
|
You didn’t really clearly explain it. Is there actually anyone wanting to “bring in fresh faces just cause they are fresh”? Any of the players like Kelleher, O Shea, Molumby and Knight would be selected on merit not just “cause they are fresh faces”. A lot of the decisions are not easy but if Kenny is able to drop Coleman the captain for Doherty who’s underperforming this season then there shouldn’t be any question in regards to dropping Duffy. Players should be picked on merit no matter that the age is |
He dropped Coleman when he shouldn’t have he now needs to bring him back in. Randolph for me plays the next two games his experience alone deserves it there is too much on the line to bring in a keeper with less than 15 first team appearances to start him. I’d play Clark instead of Duffy with Egan Molumby is the only one I would consider starting and I’ve said we might need more legs. Has knight really done enough on Merit. Hourihane dropped to championship and has already had as much as an impact in 3 games.
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Fruice
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:57pm |
Left foot wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Left foot wrote:
I dont think an overhaul is required either but I think you can look at this at a game by game level or a 2 year plan.
Game by game you probably play Randolph in March for his experience if anything.
2 year plan, you play Kelleher so that he can have that experience that 10 or 15 caps gives you as soon as possible. Either way, Randolph will be replaced in a year or so.
The same people who moan how bad Hendrick is in games will also moan if he's replaced by someone with no experience.
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Do you think Kenny has the luxury of a 2 year plan? |
Fair point fruice and id agree that no manager has 2 years guaranteed.
My point is more around putting team selection into perspective.
Is picking Collins, who has no international experience, over Duffy, who has a lot of experience, the right decision at this point?
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I’d play Clark
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BrendanD88
Roy Keane
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 2:04pm |
horsebox wrote:
And the good news is that Kellegher is training with the best goal keeper in the world too!
We have seen over the last 2 season that Alisson has missed a number of games through injury and he has played 5 games so far (I think). I am sure he might play a bit more too.
There is also the possibility that if he does move he'll play second fiddle an in inferior team.
Why would he want to move when he's getting games and challenging for trophies. |
I must have missed his transfer to Atletico or Bayern.
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