English FA Cup 2017/18 |
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Croftman
Liam Brady Joined: 18 Aug 2014 Status: Offline Points: 2554 |
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 11:29am |
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Only saw the first half on Saturday. Finals in general are usually never great games but that was deplorable. Couldn't believe how poor Utd were, Sanchez in particular.
The red-card rule change is a good one I suppose |
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Some people just deserve a slap
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Reildogg
500 Club la la la Joined: 12 Feb 2016 Location: Limerick Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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It is quite hard to say definitely, as of course it will remain up to the referee to decide it correctly or not. What I meant by the evidence was: I have not witnessed compelling evidence in the past two years that indicates the rule change has led to players and goalkeepers lunging at attackers in the box due to gaining a free pass. In that sense, I am not convinced by the supposed negative aspects of the rule change. A penalty is a very serious 'penalty' against a team - regardless of the colour of the card subsequently shown. For example, as a result of being penalised for an infringement in the box on Saturday, Chelsea scored the only goal of the game; and, won the FA cup. That's nowhere near a free pass. Ask Eden Hazard if he would prefer to take a penalty or have a go from a somewhat tight angle. Ask De Gea if he'd prefer to try and save a penalty or a one-on-one from a tight angle. Both answers would likely provide an insight into whether a free pass is now provided to those who foul opposing players in the box. I think giving the opposition a roughly 80% chance of a goal is a very strong disincentive to fouling opposition players in the box, while the rule still allows for a red card when it is abundantly clear there was no intention to play the ball. My personal opinion was that Phil Jones took a free slide in an effort to block a potential shot, so one could interpret that as no intention to play the ball or not. Nonetheless, United lost 1-0 due to the penalty given, so the punishment seems proportionate here.
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Devrozex
Jack Charlton Joined: 23 Oct 2010 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 7676 |
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According to these team stats from the Prem it ranges from as low as 63% in West Brom's case right up to 95% in Swansea's. If all Prem teams are combined the probability of a goal is 78% (1360 penos, 1065 scored), so the 80% figure is roughly accurate. In terms of the rule change - I can certainly understand where Hans is coming from. In theory it is a progressive amendment, however in practice it is a 'get out of jail free' card for referees. They can always claim there was intent in a challenge in order to defend their call - even though most would admit Jones was hugely fortunate for the ref to deem it that on Saturday. On the other hand, as has been pointed out a number of games have been ruined by the double punishment of the old rule. I suppose it all depends on the circumstances of the challenge, and you would hope that blatant infringements do still result in a red, but it does look like we can expect to see a lot more yellows for cynical, goal denying tackles - as was the case on Saturday.
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22173 |
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Did you just randomly make that up or something ffs. How many penalties are scored? Far more than 80% I'd imagine.
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"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"
Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan |
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The Huntacha
Roy Keane Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 12778 |
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Fans of both teams will definitely view the new rule differently. Great if you're defender doesnt get sent off but you'd always want the opposition defender sent off.
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Jimmy Bullard - "Favorite band? Elastic."
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Zinedine Kilbane 110
Jack Charlton Man City records obsession Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Location: Dundalk Status: Offline Points: 9647 |
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I think yesterday Jones should have trusted his keeper. At that angle it would have been difficult for Hazard to score. At best it’s a 50% chance. Hazard was definitely waiting for the tackle. Whereas the peno is around 80% chance to score. I think the new rule is good. A red card and peno can ruin a game after 2 mins. Then the player gets a 3 match ban for miss timing one tackle. It’s too harsh in all cases. Maybe the refs need to issue more reds when feel there was no intention to win the ball which is your point hans.
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HuntysCousin
Jack Charlton Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Location: Waterford Status: Offline Points: 5241 |
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So giving a player a 75% chance to score (going by your made up statistic, and excluding the chance that they will miss the target) is a free pass?
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MC Hammered
Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 6870 |
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I think it's a decent rule. There's no guarantee that the attacker is going to score his chance so a peno is fair after the foul. The ref can still issue a red card if the offence warrants it but a yellow should be sufficient if there is a genuine attempt to win the ball
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El Puto Amo
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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It is a free pass for the defender or keeper to now make a foul in the box. A foul that may look like a genuine attempt to play the ball, but just like Jones instance yesterday, he knows well he's going to foul. He believes Hazard will score so he makes the foul. Now he's only on a yellow and his keeper has a chance to save the resulting penalty. The real deterrent in this situation is totally gone.The situation where a keeper comes out sliding now and takes out a striker in a one on one - good chance the striker nudges the ball around the keeper and would proceed to roll the ball into an empty net with a decent touch. Keeper will now take him out every single time. Why, because if there's a 1 percent chance of getting to the ball, he has a free pass at doing that. It will not result in a red card anymore, and he can then attempt to save the penalty. Btw I would say it's roughly about 1 in 4 pens on average that are saved. That's a decent amount. Simply put, before this woeful rule change there was a serious deterrent for defenders and keepers to act recklessly in their own box, now it has swung totally the other way. I'm amazed every time I hear how good a rule change this was.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Zinedine Kilbane 110
Jack Charlton Man City records obsession Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Location: Dundalk Status: Offline Points: 9647 |
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I thought Hazard was excellent yesterday.
He really stepped up on the big stage. Looking forward to seeing him at the World Cup. I don’t think any Man U player stepped up. Pogba missed a free header from about 10 yards. |
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corkery
Ray Houghton Joined: 28 Jul 2010 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 4932 |
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Does winning the cup change the stage they enter the Europa League?
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'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37331 |
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terrible game of football
Uniteds lack of creativity proved their undoing again, Chelsea didn’t even have to be that good.
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9fingers
Paul McGrath Ballymun Resident #MONKEANO Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 16144 |
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Giving away a penalty is a free pass Personally I think the rule tweak is correct, I think it’s far better to watch the defending player attempt the tackle than to run along side the attacking player too scared to do anything.
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HuntysCousin
Jack Charlton Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Location: Waterford Status: Offline Points: 5241 |
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How could you possibly say that "giving the keeper the chance to save the penalty" classes as a free pass?! The percentage of penalties that are actually saved is quite low. I'm not sure how anyone in their right mind could consider giving a penalty away as a "free pass" just because they won't get sent off
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Double Maxim
Robbie Keane Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Location: Sunderland Status: Offline Points: 42949 |
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Typical of him with his post match comments saying Chelse were predictable ( are Man U not) and Man U should have won it.
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Double Maxim without doubt the greatest drink in the world
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Reildogg
500 Club la la la Joined: 12 Feb 2016 Location: Limerick Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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A free pass for defenders to foul in the box!? As in a free pass to give away a penalty (i.e. not a free pass)? Outside of the clear absence of logic, in the two years since the rule was brought in, there has been absolutely no evidence of this happening
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