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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

I don't think neither are and I don't think the Press would/should have to make a deal of it,surely to f**k her PR team could see the bad optics of her not meeting locals when it's a given that Corbyn is likely to
I understand the press have a duty to find out what happened, but their timing is what I find distasteful. I mean I would be of the opinion, just from looking at what we know, that this was either massive incompetence or someone on the take, but I don't think finding out right now is going to help anyone at all. Unfortunately, finding out in a month's time won't sell newspapers. There does seem to be an opportunity being taken by same to mention the government's failing in this department. Again, I would wait until the dust has settled, if you forgive the unintentional pun for want of a better word, and find out exactly why it happened.
It is just the way everything is reported these days, yesterday ITV had us staring at a man fearing for his life as the nation munched their granola. I find it all very sinister to be honest.
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I'd agree with PM the politcal scoring is not for now. 

Some of the stories are horrible. A statement from the fire brigade about been worried for the mental health of the people working at the blaze as what they saw and heard, they'd have never expected to have to deal with. 
Romario 2016: And the ticket mafia gets caught! Well, four years ago I had already told the government.
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Like so many other real disasters, the failed gospel of "light-touch regulation" is at the heart of this one. 

"Health and safety" are words which have been consistently demonised by pro-business media and politicians. "Red tape" is another classic of the genre. 

When health and safety fails due to "light touch regulation", this is the result. 

Changes usually only come about due to real disasters like this.

The outcome of this will be Hillsborough-like and the reasons why it occurred are even worse than Hillsborough.
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

I don't think neither are and I don't think the Press would/should have to make a deal of it,surely to f**k her PR team could see the bad optics of her not meeting locals when it's a given that Corbyn is likely to
I understand the press have a duty to find out what happened, but their timing is what I find distasteful. I mean I would be of the opinion, just from looking at what we know, that this was either massive incompetence or someone on the take, but I don't think finding out right now is going to help anyone at all. Unfortunately, finding out in a month's time won't sell newspapers. There does seem to be an opportunity being taken by same to mention the government's failing in this department. Again, I would wait until the dust has settled, if you forgive the unintentional pun for want of a better word, and find out exactly why it happened.
It is just the way everything is reported these days, yesterday ITV had us staring at a man fearing for his life as the nation munched their granola. I find it all very sinister to be honest.

I totally disagree. This is as political as a matter can get. It's as glaring an example as there will ever be as to how negligent political decisions affect and destroy lives.

Shock and anger, and the weight of it, are often the only way things can change to benefit real people, or at least prevent similar further tragedy.

The voices that matter now are the voices of the victims. Anybody who has listened to the voices of the victims cannot help but get angry. The media has a duty to amplify these voices.

Tony Barrett sums it up better than I could. 
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Met Police Commander in charge hoping the final death toll won't reach triple figures
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

I don't think neither are and I don't think the Press would/should have to make a deal of it,surely to f**k her PR team could see the bad optics of her not meeting locals when it's a given that Corbyn is likely to
I understand the press have a duty to find out what happened, but their timing is what I find distasteful. I mean I would be of the opinion, just from looking at what we know, that this was either massive incompetence or someone on the take, but I don't think finding out right now is going to help anyone at all. Unfortunately, finding out in a month's time won't sell newspapers. There does seem to be an opportunity being taken by same to mention the government's failing in this department. Again, I would wait until the dust has settled, if you forgive the unintentional pun for want of a better word, and find out exactly why it happened.
It is just the way everything is reported these days, yesterday ITV had us staring at a man fearing for his life as the nation munched their granola. I find it all very sinister to be honest.

I totally disagree. This is as political as a matter can get. It's as glaring an example as there will ever be as to how negligent political decisions affect and destroy lives.

Shock and anger, and the weight of it, are often the only way things can change to benefit real people, or at least prevent similar further tragedy.

The voices that matter now are the voices of the victims. Anybody who has listened to the voices of the victims cannot help but get angry. The media has a duty to amplify these voices.

Tony Barrett sums it up better than I could. 

I never, ever said it wasn't. Just showing a bit of respect for those connected to it seems to be too much to ask of the media.
They aren't amplifying concerns, they are selling papers. I have seen articles that have tried to make a political football of it when they are still totting up the dead. When the dust has settled then yes, whoever is responsible must be brought to justice and everything must be done to prevent future catastrophes from happening, how it is being covered now, like everything else in this world, is nothing short of disgusting.


Edited by pre Madonna - 15 Jun 2017 at 6:15pm
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

I don't think neither are and I don't think the Press would/should have to make a deal of it,surely to f**k her PR team could see the bad optics of her not meeting locals when it's a given that Corbyn is likely to
I understand the press have a duty to find out what happened, but their timing is what I find distasteful. I mean I would be of the opinion, just from looking at what we know, that this was either massive incompetence or someone on the take, but I don't think finding out right now is going to help anyone at all. Unfortunately, finding out in a month's time won't sell newspapers. There does seem to be an opportunity being taken by same to mention the government's failing in this department. Again, I would wait until the dust has settled, if you forgive the unintentional pun for want of a better word, and find out exactly why it happened.
It is just the way everything is reported these days, yesterday ITV had us staring at a man fearing for his life as the nation munched their granola. I find it all very sinister to be honest.

I totally disagree. This is as political as a matter can get. It's as glaring an example as there will ever be as to how negligent political decisions affect and destroy lives.

Shock and anger, and the weight of it, are often the only way things can change to benefit real people, or at least prevent similar further tragedy.

The voices that matter now are the voices of the victims. Anybody who has listened to the voices of the victims cannot help but get angry. The media has a duty to amplify these voices.

Tony Barrett sums it up better than I could. 

I never, ever said it wasn't. Just showing a bit of respect for those connected to it seems to be too much to ask of the media.
They aren't amplifying concerns, they are selling papers. I have seen articles that have tried to make a political football of it when they are still totting up the dead. When the dust has settled then yes, whoever is responsible must be brought to justice and everything must be done to prevent future catastrophes from happening, how it is being covered now, like everything else in this world, is nothing short of disgusting.

I'm not talking about the Daily Mail whose most noteworthy contribution in the aftermath of this has been to name they guy whose flat the fire apparently started in, I don't think we don't even know that yet for sure. 

BBC News, ITV News, Channel 4 News etc, reputable newspapers, these sources now have a duty to give a voice to the victims. 

From what I've seen so far they appear to be doing that, to be fair. 

Sadiq Khan went to the scene today and took criticism in a public manner. He at least went there and took it. 

It was the least May could have done. I'd have had more respect for her if she'd gone there and accepted that criticism. 

Show a bit of leadership and accept some public criticism rather than hiding away. 
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A lot of talk about the recent cladding added to the outside of the building.
Remember I saw an Aircrash Investigation about a fire on a plane.
So called fire proof material was tested by holding a flame to it for a few minutes, and was passed as being safe.
When a plane crashed and tonnes of jet fuel burnt for half an hour the fire proof material went up like fire lighters, their excuse was that they didn't anticipate the length of time that the fire proof material could be subjected to extraordinary heat for that amount of time.
You couldn't make this sh*t up.
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Yesterday morning ITV had a camera zoomed in on a man trapped inside the building. If ITV is a reputable news source then we may as well stop the world, I want off.

At the moment we, the public, have nothing to criticise as we don't know what happened, it is important that we find out.
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I disagree it's about political point scoring, the area had just elected a Labour MP with a very high risk of another Election, ofcourse he had to be there alongside the local MP otherwise the residents would just revolt thinking they've been abandoned.

On the other hand, May had no right being there, why show your face then announce a public inquiry? Could of announced it without showing her face? I find this new public image she's trying portray, doing Waves at Int. Football matches etc very fake and thankfully people aren't buying it, at this rate she'll be turning up to an armed standoff with a fishing rod and some chicken next.
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Originally posted by GB 1HughJarse GB 1HughJarse wrote:

A lot of talk about the recent cladding added to the outside of the building.
Remember I saw an Aircrash Investigation about a fire on a plane.
So called fire proof material was tested by holding a flame to it for a few minutes, and was passed as being safe.
When a plane crashed and tonnes of jet fuel burnt for half an hour the fire proof material went up like fire lighters, their excuse was that they didn't anticipate the length of time that the fire proof material could be subjected to extraordinary heat for that amount of time.
You couldn't make this sh*t up.


Link for this?

Plane safety is heavily regulated, so this sounds very dubious.
It was far across the sea,
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na na na na na na na na.
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Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

I disagree it's about political point scoring, the area had just elected a Labour MP with a very high risk of another Election, ofcourse he had to be there alongside the local MP otherwise the residents would just revolt thinking they've been abandoned.

On the other hand, May had no right being there, why show your face then announce a public inquiry? Could of announced it without showing her face? I find this new public image she's trying portray, doing Waves at Int. Football matches etc very fake and thankfully people aren't buying it, at this rate she'll be turning up to an armed standoff with a fishing rod and some chicken next.
I think I have to clarify what I meant here as a few people seem to be taking me up the wrong way.
I fully expect local political figures and major party leaders to turn up to the scene when there is an event like this. It is what is expected.
My problem is reactions like above which suggests that May turning up out of duty is wrong and connected to the enquiry. She may well turn out to be in someway culpable, but even so it was her duty as PM to be there. This was a major tragedy in her capital city. 
 Likewise Khan,  Corbyn or whoever else wants to go. I don't see that as political point-scoring, in fact I think the politicians, on all sides, have dealt with the matter well.
It is the media, largely the tabloids as usual( but not exclusively), who have started pointing figures and accusing people when questions haven't even been asked yet. I think the media should be talking to the people on the ground there and reporting the story. To be apportioning blame when bodies are still being counted and for the media to be tagging it onto the election is disgusting.

There is no doubt that when the questions have been asked that this will be a political issue, just about everything is. Given that money had been spent to prevent this sort of incident from happening then this couldn't but be a political issue. My problem is with the timing, leave these people come to terms with what happened and while emotions are high calm heads are to be called for.
The politicians are, by and large, avoiding using this for point-scoring and I wish the media would stop trying do it for them.
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Only caught a glimpse but thought Channel 4's Jon Snow (as always) was very good when he was on the scene and empathising with survivors/family members who live in the tower.
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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The people on the ground seem pretty unanimous in their view. 

The victims of this are working class people who the elites don't give a sh*t about. Just like Hillsborough. 

This could have been prevented had authorities given a sh*t. I mainly blame the Tories and their failed gospel of "light touch regulation" which turns everything it touches to shlt, but the previous Labour government are guilty too. 

The local Tory council don't appear to have given a shlt either. They're probably happy that they can now demolish the building and flog the land for a megabucks gentrification scheme.

There is no way possible that building and fire regulations were remotely up to scratch here.

Flammable materials used as cladding, no sprinkler system, no proper fire alarm, fire safety instructions given to residents that in many cases condemned them to their deaths. A fooking death trap if ever there was one. And how many other tower blocks all over the UK are similar death traps? 

These people "didn't matter" and that's the culture that prevails. 








Edited by sid waddell - 15 Jun 2017 at 10:25pm
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Little bit harsh on the Tories Sid as there'll probably be a miniscule Tory demographic in that tower that'll vote for them but if you're going to be negligent on fire regulations, then at least it'll be probable Corbynites or anyone but the tories voters who'll go up in flames.

Every cloud has a silver lining and all that



Edited by irishmufc - 15 Jun 2017 at 10:59pm
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Find it strange how everyone locally is gunning for Sadiq Khan, if there's anyone they should have the pitchforks out for is the person who was Mayor when all the refurbishments were so-called regulations were checked... That would be Boris.
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Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Little bit harsh on the Tories Sid as there'll probably be a miniscule Tory demographic in that tower that'll vote for them but if you're going to be negligent on fire regulations, then at least it'll be probable Corbynites or anyone but the tories voters who'll go up in flames.

Every cloud has a silver lining and all that

Well, put it this way - that's Labour's majority in Kensington literally gone up in smoke. 
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Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Find it strange how everyone locally is gunning for Sadiq Khan, if there's anyone they should have the pitchforks out for is the person who was Mayor when all the refurbishments were so-called regulations were checked... That would be Boris.

You can't blame the Mayor for everything. It's whoever was on the fire safety committee is to blame.

Edited by corkery - 16 Jun 2017 at 12:38am
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