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Denis Irwin 
Robbie Keane
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 Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 2:50pm |
 Roberto Baggio wrote:
Anyone see the Irish Independent article trying to pin the blame on Roy Keane. They detailed the quotes from Rice before and after the supposed row with Keane last summer. |
Dunphy in the Star blaming MON
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Territorial
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:12pm |
Roberto Baggio wrote:
He'll always be known as the man who won 3 senior caps for an international side before switching to another can't think of any others to have done that? |
Further to an earlier post:
Other players to change national teamSince the rule changes [in 2009], several players have taken advantage, including... - Diego Costa, who played two friendlies for his native Brazil before switching to Spain, having lived and played in the country for several years
- Wilfried Zaha won two caps in friendlies for England before declaring for the Ivory Coast, the land of his birth. He now has eight caps for the African nation
- Thiago Motta played twice for Brazil in 2003 and started a career with Italy, the nation of his grandfather, in 2011
- Alex Bruce was eligible for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland through his grandmother, playing for both countries in friendlies
- Nacer Chadli played once for Morocco before switching to Belgium, where he was born
- Two Russia players at the 2018 World Cup had previously played for the country of their birth, Roman Neustadter (Germany) and Mario Fernandes (Brazil)
Seeing as the above report came so soon after Rice's announcement, it's likely that there have been many? other, lower-profile examples which haven't been researched/cited.
Meanwhile, it is curious to contrast the reaction from (some) ROI fans to Rice's switch to that of the English over Zaha. Or more accurately the non-reaction of the English over Zaha. ("He's switched. It happens. Move on.")
Which is ironic considering that ROI have probably benefited from the ability to switch as much as any other team anywhere, with the majority of these new recruits coming from England.
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Gary McKay
Roy Keane
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:19pm |
lassassinblanc wrote:
Roberto Baggio wrote:
Anyone see the Irish Independent article trying to pin the blame on Roy Keane. They detailed the quotes from Rice before and after the supposed row with Keane last summer. |
More so do you see who wrote it  |
“One source claims...”
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"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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MC Hammered
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:20pm |
You love stirring the pot Terry. Does the contrast in reaction to the Zaha and Rice scenarios genuinely surprise you?
Edited by MC Hammered - 14 Feb 2019 at 3:31pm
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El Puto Amo
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Trigboy 10
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:20pm |
pre Madonna wrote:
fochie wrote:
I can see both sides,what it boils down to is maybe International football isnt what it once was. The game has changed and with it the sentimental value of representing your country becoming more scarce.Its down to a matter of opinion of which imo KKs is the valid one.
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Football mirrors society. National identity has been changed or eroded, particularly in western Europe, for good or bad. See Brexit. More than that, many more people now have more than one identity. Rice has a clear emotional connection to two countries and when forced into making a choice, chose with his head. It is more than possible his heart was divided, everything points to that. Killer seems incapable of realising that not everybody grew up in a fully Irish family in Lancashire, totally immersed in Irish culture. The world has changed. Irish identity in England has changed. We are no longer feared or reviled, that job has been taken on by Muslims and the EU. Kids from Irish families aren't different. They don't spend Sundays being dragged to mass by Grandmothers and drinking Club Orange in Irish clubs and centres. Should I have kids here they will grow up with two identities, should they be good at sport they too will have a choice. I certainly wouldn't force them to do anything. That's what Declan Rice had to do. I admire Kilbane's passion and love for Ireland and the national team,but he has acute myopia in this instance. |
Rice clearly didn't grow up immersed in Irish culture if he did he'd only want to play for Ireland and no else! He only has a small connection so no surprise he see's himself as a proud English man.
Edited by Trigboy 10 - 14 Feb 2019 at 3:21pm
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Devrozex
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:26pm |
Territorial wrote:
Since the rule changes [in 2009] |
That really proved to be quite a costly year for us.
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gufct
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:28pm |
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Please close this as it’s over he’s gone move on and talk about people that want to play for Ireland.
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One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:35pm |
pre Madonna wrote:
Rice has a clear emotional connection to two countries and when forced into making a choice, chose with his head. It is more than possible his heart was divided, everything points to that. |
I've long thought that rather than being a "head over heart" conflict, it was actually even simpler than that.
Namely that when DR turned out for ROI and sang the anthem/shed tears/clutched the badge etc, he was genuinely emotional, but for his father's sake. And I think it an admirable thing that a son should be so eager to please and respect his father's wishes.
But that when he was still a kid, and the chance of representing his homeland (literally) must have seemed so remote.
Fast forward 18 months to when he's now an adult and his career has progressed so much quicker than even he could have imagined. Now he's a genuine contender for England. And not just any old England, but one which has clear prospects under a new young manager, who is fully prepared to give young lads like Rice their chance.
And that's when he realised that his heart actually lay with England and playing for ROI was not what he (stress) had really wanted to do.
Which if correct, may also explain why it took him so long to come out and say it - he didn't fancy disappointing his Da.
pre Madonna wrote:
Should I have kids here they will grow up with two identities, should they be good at sport they too will have a choice. I certainly wouldn't force them to do anything. That's what Declan Rice had to do. |
Dara O'Briain puts it very well:
Edited by Territorial - 14 Feb 2019 at 3:36pm
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:38pm |
Trigboy 10 wrote:
pre Madonna wrote:
fochie wrote:
I can see both sides,what it boils down to is maybe International football isnt what it once was. The game has changed and with it the sentimental value of representing your country becoming more scarce.Its down to a matter of opinion of which imo KKs is the valid one.
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Football mirrors society. National identity has been changed or eroded, particularly in western Europe, for good or bad. See Brexit. More than that, many more people now have more than one identity. Rice has a clear emotional connection to two countries and when forced into making a choice, chose with his head. It is more than possible his heart was divided, everything points to that. Killer seems incapable of realising that not everybody grew up in a fully Irish family in Lancashire, totally immersed in Irish culture. The world has changed. Irish identity in England has changed. We are no longer feared or reviled, that job has been taken on by Muslims and the EU. Kids from Irish families aren't different. They don't spend Sundays being dragged to mass by Grandmothers and drinking Club Orange in Irish clubs and centres. Should I have kids here they will grow up with two identities, should they be good at sport they too will have a choice. I certainly wouldn't force them to do anything. That's what Declan Rice had to do. I admire Kilbane's passion and love for Ireland and the national team,but he has acute myopia in this instance. |
Rice clearly didn't grow up immersed in Irish culture |
Exactly. You are getting it,f**king slowly mind you!
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Territorial
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:42pm |
sid waddell wrote:
Can anybody tell me who's more Irish?
Is it: i) former England international and former Gaelic football player Martin Keown, whose mother was from Galway and whose father was from Fermanagh or ii) Ireland u-21 cap Niall Keown, son of former England international Martin Keown and his English wife?
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It's Niall.
Obviously.
I mean, he's doubly Irish:
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:42pm |
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
pre Madonna wrote:
fochie wrote:
I can see both sides,what it boils down to is maybe International football isnt what it once was. The game has changed and with it the sentimental value of representing your country becoming more scarce.Its down to a matter of opinion of which imo KKs is the valid one.
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Football mirrors society. National identity has been changed or eroded, particularly in western Europe, for good or bad. See Brexit. More than that, many more people now have more than one identity. Rice has a clear emotional connection to two countries and when forced into making a choice, chose with his head. It is more than possible his heart was divided, everything points to that. Killer seems incapable of realising that not everybody grew up in a fully Irish family in Lancashire, totally immersed in Irish culture. The world has changed. Irish identity in England has changed. We are no longer feared or reviled, that job has been taken on by Muslims and the EU. Kids from Irish families aren't different. They don't spend Sundays being dragged to mass by Grandmothers and drinking Club Orange in Irish clubs and centres. Should I have kids here they will grow up with two identities, should they be good at sport they too will have a choice. I certainly wouldn't force them to do anything. That's what Declan Rice had to do. I admire Kilbane's passion and love for Ireland and the national team,but he has acute myopia in this instance. |
He chose with his wallet imo.
Look, there's an entire valid discussion to be had about identity where your line of thinking is entirely reasonable. The problem people have is that Rice went out of his way to show that he wasn't conflicted, went on the record saying there was no decision to make and accepted 3 senior caps. If he was conflicted then he shouldn't have done that. |
Wallet would equate to head in this situation.
I think the problem there is that he wasn't conflicted at the time, the conflict came afterwards and now everything is seen in the light of that. He was, and still is Irish, so was therefore happy and proud to play for Ireland. He was asked questions that seemed irrelevant and answered them.
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eireland
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:46pm |
He's getting some abuse on his personal Facebook page. Probably should change the settings to private
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:50pm |
Territorial wrote:
pre Madonna wrote:
Rice has a clear emotional connection to two countries and when forced into making a choice, chose with his head. It is more than possible his heart was divided, everything points to that. |
I've long thought that rather than being a "head over heart" conflict, it was actually even simpler than that.
Namely that when DR turned out for ROI and sang the anthem/shed tears/clutched the badge etc, he was genuinely emotional, but for his father's sake. And I think it an admirable thing that a son should be so eager to please and respect his father's wishes.
But that when he was still a kid, and the chance of representing his homeland (literally) must have seemed so remote.
Fast forward 18 months to when he's now an adult and his career has progressed so much quicker than even he could have imagined. Now he's a genuine contender for England. And not just any old England, but one which has clear prospects under a new young manager, who is fully prepared to give young lads like Rice their chance.
And that's when he realised that his heart actually lay with England and playing for ROI was not what he (stress) had really wanted to do.
Which if correct, may also explain why it took him so long to come out and say it - he didn't fancy disappointing his Da.
pre Madonna wrote:
Should I have kids here they will grow up with two identities, should they be good at sport they too will have a choice. I certainly wouldn't force them to do anything. That's what Declan Rice had to do. |
Dara O'Briain puts it very well:
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In your attempts to simplify it you are, in my view anyway, complicating it. If he is close with his father, then the emotion won't just be for him, good or bad, it will be part of him. That's what it was. When he had to make a decision he made a career based one and no more.
O'Brian speaks a lot of sense, although I dispute the term 'British identity'. I have never come across it, other than people, usually right-wing lunatics, who look for it and people banging on about wars and empires.
Anyway, there's no point in crying about it now. Although, we no doubt will again when we are getting spanked by the Swiss and Danes.
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BrendanD88
Roy Keane
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:54pm |
gufct wrote:
Please close this as it’s over he’s gone move on and talk about people that want to play for Ireland.
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It's fine in the ROW section. This thread has been a great laugh the past 24 hours.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 3:55pm |
MC Hammered wrote:
You love stirring the pot Terry. |
The best Irish stew needs plenty of stirring.
But no rice.
MC Hammered wrote:
Does the contrast in reaction to the Zaha and Rice scenarios genuinely surprise you? |
No, not at all.
In my opinion, many of the derogatory comments about DR are inspired by an anti-English prejudice (whether conscious or unconscious) which as it happens is not usually reciprocated.
And a lack of irony and self-awareness from those critics doesn't help either, eg the moron on Twitter who hoped that James McClean gets promoted to the EPL so he can break Rice's leg!
I mean, why McClean?
Why not some ready-made EPL player, like eg this one?
Edited by Territorial - 14 Feb 2019 at 4:11pm
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Bob Hoskins
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 4:06pm |
Territorial wrote:
Roberto Baggio wrote:
He'll always be known as the man who won 3 senior caps for an international side before switching to another can't think of any others to have done that? |
Further to an earlier post:
Other players to change national teamSince the rule changes [in 2009], several players have taken advantage, including... - Diego Costa, who played two friendlies for his native Brazil before switching to Spain, having lived and played in the country for several years
- Wilfried Zaha won two caps in friendlies for England before declaring for the Ivory Coast, the land of his birth. He now has eight caps for the African nation
- Thiago Motta played twice for Brazil in 2003 and started a career with Italy, the nation of his grandfather, in 2011
- Alex Bruce was eligible for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland through his grandmother, playing for both countries in friendlies
- Nacer Chadli played once for Morocco before switching to Belgium, where he was born
- Two Russia players at the 2018 World Cup had previously played for the country of their birth, Roman Neustadter (Germany) and Mario Fernandes (Brazil)
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I was wondering the same about the caps. From that list Costa is hated by Brazilian's I'd wager Nacer Chadli is too, the other nations I'd imagine mostly indifferent to it all
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Romario 2016: And the ticket mafia gets caught! Well, four years ago I had already told the government.
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RogerMilla
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 4:09pm |
t_rAndy wrote:
England doing well at the WC: I think this is not such a big thing but it might have also shown him when England are doing well and the whole country are excited about the team again that it might be something great to be part of.
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great post and this is a massive point imo
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Trigboy 10
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Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 4:19pm |
pre Madonna wrote:
Trigboy 10 wrote:
pre Madonna wrote:
fochie wrote:
I can see both sides,what it boils down to is maybe International football isnt what it once was. The game has changed and with it the sentimental value of representing your country becoming more scarce.Its down to a matter of opinion of which imo KKs is the valid one.
|
Football mirrors society. National identity has been changed or eroded, particularly in western Europe, for good or bad. See Brexit. More than that, many more people now have more than one identity. Rice has a clear emotional connection to two countries and when forced into making a choice, chose with his head. It is more than possible his heart was divided, everything points to that. Killer seems incapable of realising that not everybody grew up in a fully Irish family in Lancashire, totally immersed in Irish culture. The world has changed. Irish identity in England has changed. We are no longer feared or reviled, that job has been taken on by Muslims and the EU. Kids from Irish families aren't different. They don't spend Sundays being dragged to mass by Grandmothers and drinking Club Orange in Irish clubs and centres. Should I have kids here they will grow up with two identities, should they be good at sport they too will have a choice. I certainly wouldn't force them to do anything. That's what Declan Rice had to do. I admire Kilbane's passion and love for Ireland and the national team,but he has acute myopia in this instance. |
Rice clearly didn't grow up immersed in Irish culture |
Exactly. You are getting it,f**king slowly mind you! |
You're only picking out the bit that's suits you. Rice doesn't have any emotional connection to Ireland he only has a an emotional connection to England. Wonder what your problem is with Irish centres as you've mentioned them a good few times before on here.
Edited by Trigboy 10 - 14 Feb 2019 at 4:20pm
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