Declan Rice |
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Maccatacca
Ray Houghton Joined: 01 Jun 2016 Status: Offline Points: 4216 |
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Funnily enough the Croatian team that knocked England out of the World Cup don’t particularly have world class players in every position, but when it mattered they bet England. That is my main argument. When England play good teams in big tournament games, they lose. My secondary argument is that they have several average players, which they do. Pickford, Keane, Maguire and Dier especially are not good enough and have been / will be found out again against the top teams. They have two absolutely unreal players in Kane and Sterling, and then they have some good players like the ones you mentioned. They lack top class players in midfield, defense and in goal. That’s fine against Colombia, Sweden, Czech Republic and Montenegro but it won’t cut it against the big boys next summer in my opinion. When England play mickey mouse games against good teams in the Nations League where nothing is on the line they can win all they want. This argument won’t be proved right or wrong until the next Euros in any case as England won’t play a meaningful game before that. I won’t be particularly bothered if they win or are humiliated in the Nations League finals. Sure didn’t Kyle Walker tweet sarcastically recently enough saying it was always his ‘dream’ to win such a tournament.
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22174 |
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Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, it contained three starters so it wasn't "packed" full of youthful Dutch talent. Liverpool have two outstanding young defenders in Gomez and Alexander Arnold who are playing with one of the best club sides in Europe at the moment (am I wrong?) Memphis Depay was sold because of Rashfords emergence, Daley Blind was sold because he couldn't get into a United side that contained how many English defenders who struggle to even make Southgates squad? Justin (not Patrick) Kluivert cannot get into an average Roma side at the moment and has had a pretty poor goals/assist return too. Donny Van De Beek is one year younger than Delli Alli, who has performed consistently in the PL and held his own at various times in the CL. So are we going to blow up Van De Beek but ignore that Alli if was sold in the morning who would easily command the same fee if not double what De Beek would? Bearing in mind Barca had no problem shelling out €75million + to sign De Jong so him playing domestically in Holland has nothing got to do with a transfer fee in comparison to that in England. The problem with the average Irish football fan is that they allow their dislike of England to give a fair and balanced opinion. In a nutshell you have someone ignoring the potential of some of England's best young players but bigging up a chap who can't get a game for Roma.
Edited by Green Devil - 25 Mar 2019 at 11:37pm |
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22174 |
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I would give the likes of Rashford, Hudson Odi, Sancho, Rice, Gomez, Alexander Arnold etc time and not dismiss England like you did previously when all of those guys are 22 and under. Why say a team with some of the most talented young players in European football won't achieve anything with England when none of these players are anywhere near their prime? It makes zero sense.
Edited by Green Devil - 25 Mar 2019 at 11:38pm |
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Jimmy Raggatip
500 Club la la la Joined: 28 May 2018 Status: Offline Points: 727 |
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this is all subjective though isn't it? Whereas England have actually been winning trophies at youth level in the last few years
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Maccatacca
Ray Houghton Joined: 01 Jun 2016 Status: Offline Points: 4216 |
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Didn’t England start some young lad tonight who has never played for chelsea? What’s difference between him and Kluveirt who has played a few games for Roma and several for Ajax?
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22174 |
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Yeah, pretty impressive list since 2017 - England u19 European Champions England u17 World Champions
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22174 |
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He's played 20 odd times for Chelsea tbf. The difference is Hudson Odi will more than likely be a regular at his club, Kluveirt for all his promise at Ajax (in a poor league) struggles to nail down a start at Roma consistently and is out of the Dutch international squad as a result. One's career is on the up, the other's has stagnated somewhat. Hudson Odi will probably command a fee of what £40million and will go to one of the Europes biggest clubs in the summer if he does leave Chelsea (who in truth are a bigger draw than Roma even if he does stay)
Edited by Green Devil - 25 Mar 2019 at 11:52pm |
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Maccatacca
Ray Houghton Joined: 01 Jun 2016 Status: Offline Points: 4216 |
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Kluveirt has played over twenty times for Roma this season? Who are no worse than this current woeful Chelsea team. Anyway this is getting sidetracked into a Kluveirt vs Hudson Odi arguement. My belief is that Holland have as much young talent coming through as England and that by the time the Euros come around, the Dutch along with several other top European teams would beat England. SkySports bigging up the ‘greatest league in the world’ and a few underage trophies won’t change my mind on that. Let’s see how England get on next summer as there’s no real argument to be had until then.
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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Nowhere near as good a player as Keane, but that isn't meant as a dog on Rice. People underestimate still to this day how good Keane was (imo he would have made any 11 in the world for 3 or 4 years without a doubt). Rice has a million miles to go to that. He's not as quick as Keane and while Rice's passing is quite good, Keane was a superb passer of the ball - another thing that was hugely underplayed about him. The funniest thing about Rice is that it's literally only weeks since some were wondering would Rice even get 5/10 caps for England. Could he ever displace such football Goliaths like Eric Dier? It will be interesting to see if Rice, Henderson, Dier are all fit for their Dutch game in June, if Rice gets the nod. If he does, there's a good chance he won't be moved from that position with England for a long time.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22174 |
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But it's rather foolish to dismiss their success as merely "a few underage trophies" , when their young players are winning tournaments and the Dutch haven't been as frequent. Never mind their senior side not even qualifying for tournaments either while England done really well at the last World Cup. I will report back to this if/when England meet Holland next summer and we shall have a little wager
Edited by Green Devil - 26 Mar 2019 at 12:08am |
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22174 |
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A lot of the media outlets reckon he'll just keep the jersey now. Not because of his debut, but just due to the limitations of Dier and Hendo.
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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As a defensive midfielder, there's no doubt he's better than Henderson or Dier. Dier is miles off Rice in defensive situations. Henderson covers great ground when fully fit but again he's not as good as Rice at reading the play defensively.
That's just my opinion. I think Southgate will look to rotate though, to build a squad for the Euros. If Rices club form stays near the level it is, he'll be one of their key players in next year's Euros. It could well be a case of Southgate going with Rice plus 1 in games against the better sides like the Dutch. That English defence and keeper are still muck, they will need protecting. If Southgate gets a better keeper and one quality CB from somewhere, they'd have a serious shot at winning next year's Euros.
Edited by Hans Moleman - 26 Mar 2019 at 12:27am |
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Zinedine Kilbane 110
Jack Charlton Man City records obsession Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Location: Dundalk Status: Offline Points: 9647 |
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He will be at a top 6 club either this summer or the next.
I assume Trap is taking the piss comparing him to Roy.
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kerryman95
Phil Babb Joined: 04 Sep 2017 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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I really hope the Roy Keane comparison is not someone being serious. Rice is a serious player, and will soon get a move to a top club but come on. Roy Keane is arguable the best centre midfielder the premier league has seen. Keane offered way more around the park at Rice's age, I know they played different positions but Rice has not show anywhere near that kind of ability going forward.
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cildaratown
Liam Brady killdare town Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 1390 |
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37333 |
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I think you’ll find you did play for the north James
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cildaratown
Liam Brady killdare town Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 1390 |
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Just saw Deco's picture with Harry Kane from 2014. Seems like he was using us.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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"If you're not proud to be here and we're a stepping stone then sod off and play for someone else." So if you only ever wanted to play for ROI, Jamesie, then why the seven caps for NI at U-21 level, if not a stepping stone to ROI, or an English club, for you? But it's not just consistency which seems to give him problems - he seems to have an issue with the truth as well: "I was with Derry City when I got the call-up to play for the North and I turned it down because it's not my country, it's never been my country." The fact is, he was called up to the senior NI squad for a competitive international in July 2011 - AND ACCEPTED - before changing his mind and informing the IFA of his intention to switch on 07/08 August - the day before he transferred from Derry City to Sunderland, and a mere two days before the NI game in question: Of course, Sunderland's Chief Executive at the time was Niall Quinn, the same man who has clearly stated how he influenced him to make the switch. So why the initial acceptance? Why the delay before informing the IFA? And what if the Sunderland transfer had never materialised? |
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