Euro 2020 |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Further detail on effectiveness in preventing serious illness, also on an apparent beneficial effect on reducing transmission here:
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Status: Offline Points: 6773 |
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It's understandable that the UK media want to put a positive spin on AZ, considering that the government there are pumping it into the population as fast as they can get their hands on the stuff and the public are desperate for some good news.
However, here are the details of the actual clinical test results undertaken in respect of the vaccine. It's efficiacy is 60%. Better than no vaccine and therefore approved by the EU, but poor compared to the likes of Pfizer. |
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Englishborn
Kevin Kilbane Britishborn Joined: 08 Nov 2019 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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Englishborn
Kevin Kilbane Britishborn Joined: 08 Nov 2019 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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I know this isn't important. But I've never considered myself a 'Brit' or British. I never will. I have always considered myself English and English only. There ive got it off my chest. Many Scots feel Scottish only. Many Welsh consider themselves welsh only. U don't need to reply to this. It had to be said. End of. Nothing more to say. The end
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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And are eg Public Health Scotland putting a "positive spin" on their results?
You do not appear to know the difference between Efficacy, derived from clinical trials in the laboratory; and Effectiveness, derived from live trials in the population. You are citing the former, and with results nearly a month old at that (as per your link). Whereas the latter are more reliable, especially when up-to-date (as per my link). Edited by Territorial - 22 Feb 2021 at 11:34pm |
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BrendanD88
Roy Keane 99% of my posts are emojis Joined: 29 Mar 2013 Location: Co Down Status: Online Points: 10009 |
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The Brits are at it again.
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Dalymount79
Liam Brady Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1544 |
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If the multi country hosts thing doesn’t go ahead UK seems the most sensible choice. I don’t think too many countries would be putting their hands up - I know Israel did and the Turks might. |
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Status: Offline Points: 6773 |
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I know exactly what efficacy means, that's why I stated the efficacy of the vaccine with a link to back it up. Your link relates to hospital admissions but doesn't seem to provide any details regarding overall infection. It's only telling one part of the story. Like I said, it's better than no vaccine at all, but there are huge question marks. And the UK government are playing with fire by widening the gap between the administering of the two doses contrary to scientific advice. Best of luck to them, but they have bolloxed up everything else to do with Covid in the UK up to now, I'll believe Johnson's June date for a full reopening when it happens and not before then.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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I don't know for certain why, but I suspect that the UK approach derives from two things. The first was the decision that in order to give twice as many people a first jab, it was decided to have a 3 month interval betwen A-Z jabs, rather than a 3 week interval. And the second was questions raised by EU critics (esp Macron) about the efficacy of the A-Z jab. Meaning that the UK didn't want people to start insisting on one vaccine over the other, possibly even declining altogether. Of course there is a risk that people would ask: "What are they hiding?", but experience has shown this not to be the case, since vaccine take-up has been much higher than initially feared.. This is probably because the single jab policy has produced good results, with it since being recommended by the World Health Organisation earlier this month: And as for Macron, his credibility was severely undermined when his own Health Minister, Olivier Veran, flatly contadicted him over the A-Z jab, even lining up to receive the jab himself after Macron himself had already contracted the virus! |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Besides which, your link was nearly a month old, mine was todays. And the hospital admission rate is the single most important indicator when assessing any Covid vaccine, since it demonstrates (ahem) vaccine effectiveness in preventing death and serious illness. On which point, the Scottish results were described as "spectacular" [sic].
If you look at the second link I provided it indicated that the latest data suggests that vaccines may also reduce transmission, which would be a huge bonus over the protection given. However, it is too early to be definitive.
"Huge"? Such questions as have been raised are being answered by both testing and experience as the vaccination programme rolls out. And so far the answers are largely encouraging.
I appreciate that my most recent post came after the above comment, but I will reiterate the relevant link: (From 10 February 2021) Oxford vaccine: Rest of the world should follow UK lead in leaving 12 week gap between doses, says WHOThe rest of the world should follow the UK’s lead and allow up to 12 weeks between doses of the Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine,
the World Health Organisation (WHO) has said in a vindication of the
Government’s last-minute change of strategy to its rollout programme. Vaccine efficacy tended to be higher when the interval between doses was longer. This, together with the finding of higher antibody levels with increasing interdose interval, supports the conclusion that longer dose intervals within the 4–12 weeks range are associated with greater vaccine efficacy.” (More here: https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-vaccines-SAGE_recommendation-AZD1222-2021.1 )
You may be right, you may be wrong. But we have been discussing vaccine effectiveness (or if you prefer, efficacy ). Edited by Territorial - 23 Feb 2021 at 12:27am |
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Zinedine Kilbane 110
Jack Charlton Man City records obsession Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Location: Dundalk Status: Offline Points: 9647 |
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Anyway, back on topic.
The UK are planning on re-opening everything mid June and unless another variant comes along that means the Pfizer/AZ vaccines are useless, I suspect it will open then. UEFA are making the decision in March but I assume the current hosts would have to agree to any decision made. Does Dublin want to give up their games? What’s the general feeling?
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Roberto_Carlow
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Jan 2019 Status: Offline Points: 1385 |
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General feeling from Uefa is they are desperate to keep the format as it is and will do everything they can to keep it that way. With it being summer, and still some months away, i'd say they have a decent chance of going ahead as planned, with a decent percentage of fans in grounds compared to the zero we are at right now.
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Zinedine Kilbane 110
Jack Charlton Man City records obsession Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Location: Dundalk Status: Offline Points: 9647 |
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Yeah I can see it going ahead as planned and UEFA will leave it up to each country to decide on how many fans to allow into the stadiums. The UK will obviously have Wembley full for the semifinal and final. |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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They won't change plan now, regardless of what happens. They have gone with the lunatic fringe of a lunatic party and it could end up going anyway. My fear is they want to use this an excuse to fully sell of the NHS and make a few more million for their mates, but that's probably for elsewhere.
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AonSceal19
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 30 Dec 2018 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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It would be an irresponsible decision from UEFA to continue with the current format. Making players and fans travel across Europe in the current climate. Revisit this format in the future when the world is back to normal.
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“Randolph sends it long…and Shane Long is in behind the German defence… Shane Long against Neuer…. 1-0!.. What a moment!”
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gspain
Ray Houghton Joined: 21 Apr 2010 Status: Offline Points: 4682 |
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UEFA won't decide until April. I still find it hard to believe there will be 10K at England v Scotland on Friday June 18th and 90K at the Czech game the following Tuesday. I imagine England (or with Scotland) would be the favourites now if moved. However some countries may be reluctant to give up games. We are unfortunately quite a bit behind the UK in the vaccine rollout. I'm not sure if it will be a case of cities giving games up or UEFA moving them.
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Roberto_Carlow
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Jan 2019 Status: Offline Points: 1385 |
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All fans descending on one country and then heading back doesn't really work either tbf. With the talk of new variants, the host nation may want to limit people entering the country. difficult to predict at this stage where the world will be come June |
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Zinedine Kilbane 110
Jack Charlton Man City records obsession Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Location: Dundalk Status: Offline Points: 9647 |
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I doubt UEFA can take them away unless the host countries agree to it (there would be legal issues and compensation would have to be made) I think the majority of host countries won’t give up their games. Edited by Zinedine Kilbane 110 - 23 Feb 2021 at 12:15pm |
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