World Cup Qualification Group D Thread

willmcc83 wrote: Man Utd analogy is laughable. They were a great club well before Ferguson and they aimed to get back to those heights and were well paced to do it. 4 top 4 finishes under Atkinson and FA Cups in 83 and 85 and players like Robson, Anderson, Whiteside, Strachan, McGrath & Moran. Talk sense. Your clutching at straws to criticse ONeill. Not beating higher ranked teams home or way for 14 and 29 years respectively as f*** all to do with ONeill and this team. One campaign - qualification secured and progression to knock out phase. Second campaign - joint top of group having played group leaders away.

Take Aberdeen then. 

Where did I say it was O'Neill's fault that we hadn't won away in 30 years??  Are you actually suggesting I said that??

What I am saying is O'Neill's talking down our chances in the press does have an effect on expectations and perpetuates the hopeless run of years where we havent the balls to win away because we have psyched ourselves out if it.  Whether he tells the players another thing or not,  telling the press over and over how difficult the upcoming game will be has to have an effect. Telling us that a win away would almost be a beyond expectations ''I think that any team that wins away from home in this group will have done very, very well.”   Why?  It's a game of football against teams of similar level. Do you think Serbia are convincing themselves that a win in Dublin would be a near miracle? When I read that line it tells me that a win away is not realistic in O'Neill's view. I know he states 'any team' but it's implicit that he is referring to us winning in Serbia or anywhere else.  In my opinion he is telling the press and us the people of Ireland that a win in Serbia is not in the offering and we should be delighted with a point. 

Can I ask what is the point of attempting (in vain) to lower the expectations of the press? Does he think that by saying ''Georgia at home is will be very difficult and that they can take points off teams makes it acceptable not to beat them at home or that the press will go easier on him had they no beat Georgia?   Rubbish.  Making excuses beforehand if it goes tits up is what it is.  I think that can have an effect on the players.


On the other hand this is the type of thing the Serbia coach is telling the press. This is what I think a coach should be saying:


Muslin, for his part, said that his side will look to beat the visitors and get three early points on the board: “Serbia will be going into each match playing for a win whether we play at home, whether we play away. But especially since our first match in the qualifiers is at home, we will be going for the three points.”

State your objectives. Don't hide it or beat around the bush.  If you achieve it you achieve it.  If you don't you don't. End of story.

You've referred to ONeill talking the team down in media interviews and in the same breath your referring to previous Ireland times not winning at home or away - you've done it in your last post too. The performance of previous managers and teams is irrelevant so yes I do feel you are bringing up previous teams and managers to muddy the waters and strengthen your own arguement. c

If you want to criticise ONeill as Ireland manager stick to 2013 to the present dacrcy. Perhaps also consider sticking to results but I suppose when you stick to anything of relevance there isn't a whole lot left to criticise.

The managers interviews with the media have nothing to do with the teams performances. International players dont actually listen back to Tony ODonoghoes interviews.

Sorry to clog up the thread but how many points do i need to be able to send a PM ? 

o_faz wrote: rolo wrote: Trap junior wrote: We don't have the balls to win a group.  Even if we are in pole position with a 2 or 3 games to go I can see us snatching the playoff spot from the jaws of victory. We have a serious lack of belief that we can be group winners.   Might be wrong but I don't think I have heard MON once say this is a winnable group. We seem to set our sights low.  We try to 'nick' a playoff spot.  I hate when I hear our manager talking about 'nicking a goal' as if doing so would be against the run of play, against what is expected, against all odds as if we are a loser team who hope to fluke the ball into the net and somehow get out of dodge.  He talks about nicking goals against average teams.  We should be talking ourselves up more. Its not technical or physical ability that has never seen us win away against anyone of decent ability in 30 years, and Scotland in 1987 were not really a top team at all even though they had some good players.  Its pure inferiority complex bred into us. Irish Times, 5th Sept 2016: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/euro-2016-spirit-can-inspire-ireland-in-new-campaign-1.2779343  ------------------ I don't get why this is an issue for you. I couldn't care less what MON says to the media, its what he says to the players. The biggest insight into what he is telling them comes from interviews they do during the week. When they state 6 points is our target from the next two games, or that they are targeting a win in a big game, its definitely due to the manager drumming that into their heads from the moment they arrive in Dublin. You think the manager is some sort of eejit gombeen man, bumbling around in the job, not knowing what he is up to, giving the team no inspiration. The results don't reflect that. The style of play has been at times terrible, but one thing you can't throw at Martin O'Neill is questioning his abilities as a motivator.  Do you think MON wants to give Chris Coleman a quote to stick up on the tactics board before the next game? "We're very lucky to have Wales as a first seed, when it could have been  Germany or Spain or France or Portugal. Nothing less than a win will do against Wales because really they only have a few good players, and I was surprised they got the semi finals of the Euros". He is an experienced manager, he's cuter than you think. Completely agree with what you've just said Rolo. I couldn't believe the Austria manager coming out with the 'lucky' jibe about Wales 2 days before their game - you've effectively done the job of motivating the opposition for them (and Coleman clearly does plenty of that anyhow). MON can be as boring as he wants to the press. In an era where the press cast an ever increasing 'all seeing eye' over every minute bit of information that comes out of everyones mouth his complete lack of giving the game away is what impresses me most. I do wonder whether people would prefer us to try and play nice attractive football and fail to qualify or to be dogged, determined and sometimes a little lucky and sneak our way in there. I'd also add that its unfair to say we 'lack the bottle' to win a group - I think we have a decent squad but with limitations and that you do the quality that the other teams in the group possess a disservice. If things fall right we can win the group and the mindset of the players Im sure is to go out and win every game, but we simply arent good enough to do that imo - Id take a point in Austria right now but does that mean Im being negative or realistic?

Not out and out favourites? We have a 100% record against them. Ok they can be a bit difficult to overcome but we always manage it in the end. O'Neill was getting his excuses in early.

Wales slipped up because they were missing 2 of yheir best players. We all know that the majority of their squad is pretty poor. Everyone has said if you take Bale out of that team (Id include Ramsay and Allen) that they are an average side at best. We have been lucky. We played Serbia with their 2 best players missing and Wales played Georgia with 2 of their best players missing. I dont put that down to O Neill cleverly talking up his opponents and Wales not.

That kind of talking up your opponents was a bit of a ploy from the pre mass television coverage days where nobody knew what a far away team like Georgia were like especially the media or public who had never seen them play. Only the manager might have seen them after a scouting trip to see them play in person and he could build up a picture of their quality to the media who would relay it to the public. If he made them out to be a great side then a draw or win would hqve gleefully been accepted. If je lost the media might go easy. That doesnt wash anymore. Its not the 1970's or 1980's. We know Georgia or whoever. Theres no pulling the wool over our eyes.

Where have I said an arrogant approach or Trump like pre game bluster is what I am after?? I'd like to see this mysterious post I made.

I have said probably for the umpteenth time now that we should not be talking up our opponents yo the point we make them out to be better than they are and psych ourselves out of picking up points that could otherwise have been attained with more self belief and a little less respect for the opponents. I never once talked about dissing or being disrespectful of opponents. There is nothing disrespectful about stating we ant to win every game (who doesnt!) and that we play to win every game.

You and your fellow posters accuse me of not focusing on the ONeill era so why do you lads keep bringing up Trapattoni?


I'm here to discuss O'Neill not Trapattoni.

Different era. We had been in the wilderness for years. Trap got results. I was happy to take them after 6 years under Kerr and Stan. After Euro 2012 it was time for a change. Better football to go with results. Its called progression. I dont see any contradiction.   

O'Neills style was known to anyone who knows football before he got the job. We signed up to continue hoofing it for another few years when we got him.

I expect a poor display in Austria because history under O'Neill suggests it. A draw at best the way we play.

Trap junior wrote: Different era. We had been in the wilderness for years. Trap got results. I was happy to take them after 6 years under Kerr and Stan. After Euro 2012 it was time for a change. Better football to go with results. Its called progression. I dont see any contradiction.    O'Neills style was known to anyone who knows football before he got the job. We signed up to continue hoofing it for another few years when we got him. I expect a poor display in Austria because history under O'Neill suggests it. A draw at best the way we play.

Kerr got results too he has the highest win % of any manager (Unfortunately mostly friendlies)

Trap junior wrote: Different era. We had been in the wilderness for years. Trap got results. I was happy to take them after 6 years under Kerr and Stan. After Euro 2012 it was time for a change. Better football to go with results. Its called progression. I dont see any contradiction.    O'Neills style was known to anyone who knows football before he got the job. We signed up to continue hoofing it for another few years when we got him. I expect a poor display in Austria because history under O'Neill suggests it. A draw at best the way we play.