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Can The Aviva be completed/made bigger?

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eire77 View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eire77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

So people who own their apartments don't actually own them as there is a finite lifespan?


Correct. Long leases. Usually 99 years and the management company are transferred ownership of the land, structure and common areas upon completion / disposal of all units within the development.

However people who "purchase" the apartments usually become shareholders in the management company. This didn't always happen though particularly when developers went bust before developments were complete / sold.

Edited by eire77 - 21 Oct 2015 at 4:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

It more or less is. The supposed "Joint Ownership" is only for 50 years then it reverts to the full ownership of the IRFU

What? Why would the FAI put themselves 50million in the hole? They'll just about have paid off the debt when the IRFU get it back

Because the IRFU owned the land that the stadium was to be built on, and continue to do so



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:01pm
We've no need for more capacity. The reason it is like it is is to get the most people in with the restrictions that were there. The North Stand is lower to allow the sun get to those houses (ie through the gap). 

As someone said, with the restrictions they had (loads of houses, dart alongside), it's the best they could have done. 

People seem to be asking for two things at once here, steeper stands fo less capacity, but also increase capacity.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:04pm
Can't see it being too high on the priorities list, the money would be better off being invested elsewhere in Irish football, plenty of infrastructure in dire need of it! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KING-CON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

It more or less is. The supposed "Joint Ownership" is only for 50 years then it reverts to the full ownership of the IRFU

What? Why would the FAI put themselves 50million in the hole? They'll just about have paid off the debt when the IRFU get it back

Because the IRFU owned the land that the stadium was to be built on, and continue to do so



Unlike its predecessor, which was solely owned by the IRFU, the current stadium is controlled by the IRFU and the FAI through a 50:50 joint venture known as the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company (LRSDC). The joint venture has a 60-year lease on the stadium; on expiry the stadium will return to the exclusive ownership of the IRFU. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

It more or less is. The supposed "Joint Ownership" is only for 50 years then it reverts to the full ownership of the IRFU

What? Why would the FAI put themselves 50million in the hole? They'll just about have paid off the debt when the IRFU get it back
What do you reckon the sum total of the rent for the place over 60 years would be? At least when the mortgage is paid in 2020 (I know...) they make money off the place,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:15pm
Its too big for football.  I would have preferred a 35,000 stadium that we could fill every game. Wales are playing their games in Cardiff City's ground and it has helped them rather than playing in a vast empty Millenium Stadium.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by eire77 eire77 wrote:

Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

So people who own their apartments don't actually own them as there is a finite lifespan?


Correct. Long leases. Usually 99 years and the management company are transferred ownership of the land, structure and common areas upon completion / disposal of all units within the development.

However people who "purchase" the apartments usually become shareholders in the management company. This didn't always happen though particularly when developers went bust before developments were complete / sold.
Correct. But its still their apartment and they have ownership rights etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlton's Child Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by KING-CON KING-CON wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

It more or less is. The supposed "Joint Ownership" is only for 50 years then it reverts to the full ownership of the IRFU

What? Why would the FAI put themselves 50million in the hole? They'll just about have paid off the debt when the IRFU get it back

Because the IRFU owned the land that the stadium was to be built on, and continue to do so



Unlike its predecessor, which was solely owned by the IRFU, the current stadium is controlled by the IRFU and the FAI through a 50:50 joint venture known as the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company (LRSDC). The joint venture has a 60-year lease on the stadium; on expiry the stadium will return to the exclusive ownership of the IRFU. 



By the time this happens it will be time for the ground to be re-developed again and the cycle will start all over again i imagine  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thebronze14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Its too big for football.  I would have preferred a 35,000 stadium that we could fill every game. Wales are playing their games in Cardiff City's ground and it has helped them rather than playing in a vast empty Millenium Stadium.


I was saying at the time that it was too small when building it!I thought we could sustain Croke Park attendences...How wrong was I?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KING-CON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Charlton's Child Charlton's Child wrote:

Originally posted by KING-CON KING-CON wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

It more or less is. The supposed "Joint Ownership" is only for 50 years then it reverts to the full ownership of the IRFU

What? Why would the FAI put themselves 50million in the hole? They'll just about have paid off the debt when the IRFU get it back

Because the IRFU owned the land that the stadium was to be built on, and continue to do so



Unlike its predecessor, which was solely owned by the IRFU, the current stadium is controlled by the IRFU and the FAI through a 50:50 joint venture known as the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company (LRSDC). The joint venture has a 60-year lease on the stadium; on expiry the stadium will return to the exclusive ownership of the IRFU. 



By the time this happens it will be time for the ground to be re-developed again and the cycle will start all over again i imagine  

I'd say that was the thinking behind it. It also means the IRFU hang on to the valuable asset of the land. IF the FAI get their house in order over the next 55 years and make the league competitive and popular, they could look at building their own stadium for 2070! I wouldn't bet on that though. 


Edited by KING-CON - 21 Oct 2015 at 5:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tobymcclure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:43pm
there must have been a novelty factor for watching soccer in croke park,
hence the big attendances.

playing games against smaller teams in a smaller venue seems like a no-brainer! i think it would lead to a more effective 12th man, loud and intimidating.......... plus it would be more craic!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:52pm
Why would they want to do that though? The setup works, they have a good relationship with the IRFU and have halved the risk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OnTheOneRoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Its too big for football.  I would have preferred a 35,000 stadium that we could fill every game. Wales are playing their games in Cardiff City's ground and it has helped them rather than playing in a vast empty Millenium Stadium.



We've had 3 sellouts this campaign out of 5 and are likely to get a fourth against Bosnia, it certainly isn't too big for football generally. But for the smaller games a 30,000 seater would be nice. it'd be good for the team to always have a packed house, even if it requires building another smaller house
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

It more or less is. The supposed "Joint Ownership" is only for 50 years then it reverts to the full ownership of the IRFU

What? Why would the FAI put themselves 50million in the hole? They'll just about have paid off the debt when the IRFU get it back

Im shocked that you didnt know this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stonesy114 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 7:29pm
Would love to have a stadium like the millennium alright. By far the nicest I've been too and the best in the world in my opinion,, The fans are right in on top of the pitch

Edited by Stonesy114 - 21 Oct 2015 at 7:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kimbap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Charlton's Child Charlton's Child wrote:

To answer the question yes the north end could be completed to make a full bowl . The way stadiums are designed in the last ten years is so that expanding capacity can be done so with very little work required to the existing structure . To complete the bowl shape you'd probable need 12 months . But a bit like the same situation as Croke park great idea , completely possible but very likely to never happen


Not going to get into in on here  again as i think its in a thread from a few years ago but it's not financially feasible in CP.Also the overall capacity would be 83k (assuming they built the hill the same as the canal) it's current capacity is 82,300.Some people talk awful sh1te on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 7:55pm
Makes you a bit sick when you see the millennium stadium was built for 125m pounds and is an awesome stadium with huge capacity and retractable roof whereas landsdowne cost 3 times that and has an unfinished feel about it.

I'm glad we didn't build the Bertie bowl which might have been a nice stadium but it was all purpose so would have been a running track or huge pitch to accomadate GAA, wouldn't have worked.

What probably would have worked best in terms of the stadium itself was Eircom Park. That was going to be a 45,000 seater stadium I think. It was being talked about around the time Wales were building millennium stadium and if I rmemeber the cost was not so high. They'd be no doubt be making money off it now anyway! What was the main reason it fell through?
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