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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Absolute bollocksology of the highest order. There's nothing to suggest her claims aren't credible. There is a paucity of evidence,  sure, but that's not the same thing.

The rest is right-wing rhetoric, applied to suit an argument to defend a centre-right politician because he is the lesser of two evils. If this was an allegation against Trump I doubt you would be making the same arguments.

There's only two possible realities here: either she is lying or it happened. If she is lying she is being paid and will be found out, but if she isn't being paid then she has no reason to come forward at all. Nobody would choose this, so will Biden might get away with in the courts there will remain a question mark about him, especially giving his love of touching women on camera, but not men, bizarrely. 
If he has nothing to fear he should open his records up.

The bolded bit sums things up. You clearly aren't interested in engaging in good faith and are throwing whataboutery and deflection around like confetti. 

Do a bit of research on the topic. The allegation is a bad joke and the exact sort of ludicrous smear that was expected by clued in observers.

Ironically, your posts here have been full of the exact sort of "right wing bollocksology" you claim to railing against. 

And I'm no Biden supporter, given he was one of the last people I wanted to see get the nomination. The guy offers very little as a politician other than being Not Trump. 

The thing is, I know bullshlt when I see it, and this is bullshlt.
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Robbie Keane
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Points: 44659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 3:10pm
I have done plenty research, thanks, ya condescending ****.Thumbs Up
Rebecca Traister's views and research on the matter are those that I would trust most. She is a well respected author and journalist and, in her words, "something happened". There are too many individuals with similar recollections from the same time, not to mention her mother's phone call, for this to be a complete fabrication. What that is is difficult to be sure of and may well be impossible to prove, but if he is so sure there is nothing in the records to do so I don't understand why he doesn't open them up.
I also  don't understand how I'm throwing whataboutery around, when your basis for not believing her is because she lied about unrelated things and her story changed, a regular problem for victims as the actual events can be so painful to call. Biden has regularly been called out on his lying, like all establishment politicians he is very good at it; why isn't that being mentioned? That's all deflection.

I also never said you were a Biden supporter, as you are, presumably based in Ireland, it is fairly irrelevant anyway. You want him to win and have decided this woman doesn't deserve to be heard because of a dislike of Trump. I would happily accept if you said you believe Biden, but to be so completely dismissive shows hypocrisy from someone who, I would assume, would views themselves as progressive. 
There is a huge amount of assumptions being put across by Democrats that they would dismiss in allegations against anyone who wasn't their presidential nominee. The #metoo movement has shown that victims deal with this sort of harassment or assault in all sorts of different ways, yet many who have supported this movement and understand it are now undoing that good work by being so completely and utterly dismissive of her claims based on her actions and behaviour. There is also the fact that many of those who corroborate her story are card-carrying Democrats who will vote for Biden and have no ulterior motive. Are they all being paid by Trump/Russia/Fox?
There's also the problem that women's rights groups in the States feel that they can't criticise Biden because they want Trump out, which complicates it further. That is of course why Trump supporters and media want to push this, but that, again, shouldn't undermine the claim. 

It is an incredibly complex situation, but it seems far too simple to suggest that these allegations were solely concocted to besmirch Biden and the methods being used by Democrats and so-called 'progressives' to do that have been incredibly harmful to progression, regardless of what actually happened as we may never truly know.


Edited by pre Madonna - 02 May 2020 at 3:15pm
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I have done plenty research, thanks, ya condescending ****.Thumbs Up
Rebecca Traister's views and research on the matter are those that I would trust most. She is a well respected author and journalist and, in her words, "something happened". 
Sorry, that's literally, "somebody I like in the media said something I like so I therefore believe the allegation".

A total cop out.

There are more red flags over this allegation than you'd find at a Chinese Communist party meeting.

And they aren't the sort of reasonable inconsistencies or reasonable forgetting things that can happen with a credible rape allegation. 

There are multiple material changes to the the story, another one just yesterday, there are openly coached "witnesses", there is a litany of bizarre behaviour over decades that completely destroys the complainant's credibility. 

Believing women means giving women every chance to put forward a credible story and a credible allegation. 

What Reade has put forward is a constantly changing mess. 

This is not about "wanting to believe" anybody. This is about actual truth, and about whether the allegation is credible. It isn't and it isn't close. 

And this is the exact sort of thing Republicans have been waiting for so that they can try to discredit #metoo as a whole, which they are desperate to do.

Reade is a victim of those who so shamelesly seek to exploit her for their own cynical gain.
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pre Madonna View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I have done plenty research, thanks, ya condescending ****.Thumbs Up
Rebecca Traister's views and research on the matter are those that I would trust most. She is a well respected author and journalist and, in her words, "something happened". 
Sorry, that's literally, "somebody I like in the media said something I like so I therefore believe the allegation".

A total cop out.

There are more red flags over this allegation than you'd find at a Chinese Communist party meeting.

And they aren't the sort of reasonable inconsistencies or reasonable forgetting things that can happen with a credible rape allegation. 

There are multiple material changes to the the story, another one just yesterday, there are openly coached "witnesses", there is a litany of bizarre behaviour over decades that completely destroys the complainant's credibility. 

Believing women means giving women every chance to put forward a credible story and a credible allegation. 

What Reade has put forward is a constantly changing mess. 

This is not about "wanting to believe" anybody. This is about actual truth, and about whether the allegation is credible. It isn't and it isn't close. 

And this is the exact sort of thing Republicans have been waiting for so that they can try to discredit #metoo as a whole, which they are desperate to do.

Reade is a victim of those who so shamelesly seek to exploit her for their own cynical gain.










No, that's now what I said at all. This all further whataboutery and deflection. What I said was somebody in the media who has put an awful lot of time and effort into it and who has absolutely no ulterior motive or hidden agenda feels something happened and has used corroborating evidence backing it up.
Go through any such case and you will find plenty red flags.Plenty of women who have been harassed,  assaulted or raped have changing stories and there are complex psychological reasons for that.To try and use that as definitive proof that nothing happened is a cop-out. Discussing Republican positions on the #metoo movement is even more of a cop-out. 

This is unquestionably about truth and neither of us have access to it, so pretending you have is just grandstanding bollocksology.  

Your position is simple: you hate Trump so she must be lying.
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:


Your position is simple: you hate Trump so she must be lying.
As bad faith "arguments" go, that's a doozy.

And you've had a barrel full of them here. 

In terms of real bad faith actors, Katie Halper, who Reade went to to "tell her story", is right up there. Halper runs a podcast with Matt Taibbi, who openly admits to treating women abominably for years, in where else? Russia, of course.

Halper doesn't a sh*t about women or their real stories, if she did she wouldn't be working with a scumbag like Taibbi. She's a classic grifter.

Taibbi's book:

We’d never given her any respect or credit. We were glory hogs and obnoxious jerks. Worst of all was our sexism. Our sexism and sexual harassment of the Russian female staff, as well as the sexism in our newspaper, was too much for her. Watching us harass the young female staff had to be the most painful part—because we’d never, in a million years, have thought of harassing her. 

“You know I’m not PC. But there’s a limit. You go too far. You’re always trying to force Masha and Sveta under the table to give you blow jobs. It’s not funny. They don’t think it’s funny,” Kara complained. 

“But . . . it is funny,” Matt said.

We have been pretty rough on our girls. We’d ask our Russian staff to flash their asses or breasts for us. We’d tell them that if they wanted to keep their jobs, they’d have to perform unprotected anal sex with us. Nearly every day, we asked our female staff if they approved of anal sex. That was a fixation of ours. “Can I f**k you in the ass? Huh? I mean, without a rubber? Is that okay?” It was all part of the fun. Fun that Kara was no part of. 
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pre Madonna View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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More whataboutery.Ermm

It isn't any sort of argument,  it is the very crux of your viewpoint, one that you refuse to accept.


Edited by pre Madonna - 02 May 2020 at 3:57pm
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Robbie Keane
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From my limited knowledge of Biden, he does have a history of being touchy feely apparently. I'll unfortunately have to resort to cliche in that the truth is probably somewhere in between. He probably did try it on or have some sexual relations with her and he wouldn't be the first democrat horndog to do so but engage in a full rape seems unlikely if the inconsistencies in her story are true. 

And no I'm not offering any evidence as I don't have any. LOL

On the election itself Biden isn't as disliked as Hilary was and may win but I think he has some form of early dementia and he's very short tempered if challenged on a question. It's a major concern when he's going up against dirty player like Trump in the election. Trump knows how to campaign, market
and solidify his base. The electoral college favours Trump and the Republican anyway.  

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo would've been the perfect opponent to take Trump head on in November.   
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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In April 2019 Tara Reade wrote on Medium:
"this is not a story about sexual assault".

In March 2020, she went back and heavily edited her Medium article and changed that particular sentence to: "this is not only a story about sexual assault". 

Now it turns out Reade never even mentioned sexual assault or sexual harrassment in her supposed "complaint" in 1993 that nobody apart from herself has ever heard of.

MSNBC offered her an interview, she refused. She had an interview scheduled with Fox for this morning, she has pulled out. 

What a farce.




Edited by sid waddell - 03 May 2020 at 10:48am
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Ray Houghton
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Listening to the hypocrisy of the left on the issue is hilarious. They've now took on the role of Sister Assumpta in Father Ted: "This isn't what it looks like". 

A politician has to have policy to run on, even if "building a wall" or "350m quid for the NHS" is unrealistic. In the same way as "anyone but Bush" was not enough to carry Kerry into office, "anyone but Trump" is not a policy and is not sufficient grounds to change President. Most Presidents are also re-elected, and therefore I expect Trump to be returned to office.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Listening to the hypocrisy of the left on the issue is hilarious. They've now took on the role of Sister Assumpta in Father Ted: "This isn't what it looks like". 

A politician has to have policy to run on, even if "building a wall" or "350m quid for the NHS" is unrealistic. In the same way as "anyone but Bush" was not enough to carry Kerry into office, "anyone but Trump" is not a policy and is not sufficient grounds to change President. Most Presidents are also re-elected, and therefore I expect Trump to be returned to office.
Well look what the cat dragged in
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The Christine Blasey Ford allegations weren’t as credible as these allegations against Biden, nor were they as serious. However they were to the forefront of the world media for weeks and resulted in mass protests and incredibly annoying social media activity. It’s also no surprise that the very people who insisted we believe all women are now saying the exact opposite.


When the Democrats began weaponising fake sexual assault allegations they should have known that the Republicans would fight fire with fire at some stage. Then they go and hand it to them on a plate by running an obvious creep like Joe Biden. 


It’s not so clear cut who would actually be a worse president between these two. You have Trump with all of his obvious shortcomings. Then you have Biden, a corporatist war mongering drug warrior and stalwart of the surveillance state who seems to be deteriorating rapidly into dementia. 


One of the overlooked tragedies of the current global pandemic is that we may not get to experience the full glory of the epic farce that this election is sure to be.
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Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Listening to the hypocrisy of the left on the issue is hilarious. They've now took on the role of Sister Assumpta in Father Ted: "This isn't what it looks like". 

A politician has to have policy to run on, even if "building a wall" or "350m quid for the NHS" is unrealistic. In the same way as "anyone but Bush" was not enough to carry Kerry into office, "anyone but Trump" is not a policy and is not sufficient grounds to change President. Most Presidents are also re-elected, and therefore I expect Trump to be returned to office.
Well look what the cat dragged in



LOL

What do you think on the odds of Trump being re-elected Sid? 50/50 or Biden to scrape it?
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Listening to the hypocrisy of the left on the issue is hilarious. They've now took on the role of Sister Assumpta in Father Ted: "This isn't what it looks like". 

A politician has to have policy to run on, even if "building a wall" or "350m quid for the NHS" is unrealistic. In the same way as "anyone but Bush" was not enough to carry Kerry into office, "anyone but Trump" is not a policy and is not sufficient grounds to change President. Most Presidents are also re-elected, and therefore I expect Trump to be returned to office.
Well look what the cat dragged in



LOL

What do you think on the odds of Trump being re-elected Sid? 50/50 or Biden to scrape it?

the odds have it even

don't underestimate the yanks, trump wins this easy 
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The Reade matter creates a difficulty for progressives who might already be less than accepting of Biden. Unlike Republicans who would vote for the Devil if he was in the colours, Democrats do think a little deeper about their candidates, which also has its downsides. In particular, if retaining your principles means voting third party or staying at home, which inherently helps Trump.

It’s a dilemma for progressives,  whose instincts will be to believe Reade. And that may result in voting for Biden (in spite of this) which will feel less than principled, or limiting definition of me-too, which lacks principle, or avoiding the election and helping Engage another four years of Trump, and all that comes with it.
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We’re giving yanks way too much credit here. 
Trump @ evens is a no brainer imo considering the opposition 
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

The Reade matter creates a difficulty for progressives who might already be less than accepting of Biden. Unlike Republicans who would vote for the Devil if he was in the colours, Democrats do think a little deeper about their candidates, which also has its downsides. In particular, if retaining your principles means voting third party or staying at home, which inherently helps Trump.

It’s a dilemma for progressives,  whose instincts will be to believe Reade. And that may result in voting for Biden (in spite of this) which will feel less than principled, or limiting definition of me-too, which lacks principle, or avoiding the election and helping Engage another four years of Trump, and all that comes with it.
That's a fair assessment. It is interesting watching a lot of Democrats, feminists and progressives all bite their tongue on Reade's allegations because of the greater good.
There is more than a chance she is being egged on by Republicans, but even so there's a more than a fair chance that she is telling the truth. The Democrats only have themselves to blame for picking a candidate that was very likely to have such skeletons in his closet.

Regarding is Biden any better than Trump, the answer is overwhelmingly yes. Four years ago I thought the same. Trump offered unpredictability and Clinton offered more of the same disastrous foreign policy of all her predecessors, but the reality is that he is the man most likely to be responsible for the war that ends it all. Biden has very few redeeming features,  but the main one is that he isn't Trump. 
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Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

We’re giving yanks way too much credit here. 
Trump @ evens is a no brainer imo considering the opposition 

exactly, the vast majority of people have absolutely no clue about politics and will just vote for someone they recognise. these days you need celebrity and in america trump has the brand so unless oprah or george clooney shows up it's a walkover. nobody knows joe biden even if he is a former VP.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by flipper flipper wrote:

The Christine Blasey Ford allegations weren’t as credible as these allegations against Biden, nor were they as serious. However they were to the forefront of the world media for weeks and resulted in mass protests and incredibly annoying social media activity. It’s also no surprise that the very people who insisted we believe all women are now saying the exact opposite.


When the Democrats began weaponising fake sexual assault allegations they should have known that the Republicans would fight fire with fire at some stage. Then they go and hand it to them on a plate by running an obvious creep like Joe Biden. 


It’s not so clear cut who would actually be a worse president between these two. You have Trump with all of his obvious shortcomings. Then you have Biden, a corporatist war mongering drug warrior and stalwart of the surveillance state who seems to be deteriorating rapidly into dementia. 


One of the overlooked tragedies of the current global pandemic is that we may not get to experience the full glory of the epic farce that this election is sure to be.

First of all, Blasey Ford's story was infinitely more credible than Reade's, who has changed her story numerous times and literally contradicted herself completely. 

Second of all, nice copy and paste.
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