Drugs in Sport |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Online Points: 39834 |
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Farah was given 2 TUE's for triamcinolone, (an otherwise banned cortiscoid that enhances performance) during his career, which he admitted to after Fancy Bears leaks. This is the exact same substance as Wiggins took before 3 major cycling races, and from today's evidence, it would seem Wiggins was far from alone in the Sky/British cycling community in that, seeing as they had so much of the stuff stockpiled (why I wonder.....??) that there was simply far too much of it for one man to use. Which would also lead to the logical conclusion that some of this was administered to others without the use of TUE's - something that is downright illegal/banned. It is also the same substance that Lance Armstrong tested positive for all the way back in 1999 in the TDF, he got around that one by producing a back-dated TUE, which the UCI were only too happy to go along with. Many ex cycling pros such as Landis, Joerg Jackshe & Mick Rasmussen have testified as to the performance enhancing ability of this stuff. If you believe Farah is innocent, I would ask why you think this same substance crops up, time & time again, in these TUE cases. I'll give ya a big clue, maybe the cyclists mentioned above were on to something, after all, if anybody should know what the properties & effects of various drugs are, tis them. Salazar, his coach, is as dodgy as they come, with quite a few media outlets investigating him in recent times, Panorama accused him of doping the athlete Galen Rupp- as regards Farah, this might not amount to too much, but the Fancy Bears most recent leak shows that the US anti doping agency themselves were concerned enough to commission a report into Salazar. Link here; https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/25/alberto-salazar-link-mo-farah-leaked-us-report-usada-russian-hackers Then there is his relationship with Jama Aden, Farah has denied knowing him (then backtracked a bit when somebody published photos of the 2 men together) , then denied he was ever coaching him, saying he was a mere 'facilitator' when Farah was training in Ethiopia. Make of that what you will, but 2 of Aden's athletes that he does coach have been banned for doping violations in the past few years. Then there is the bit about the doorbell not working. And the bit where he is unbeatable at his race distances. None of them on their own anything near enough to think Farah could be cheating, but added together, it doesn't paint a brilliant picture. Guilty ?? I have no idea, but there is certainly enough there to be suspicious of, given the history of the sport. That bit is important of yer ever in any doubt about someone, have a look at the history of the sport & what it tells you, it helps when drawing a conclusion. That conclusion is rarely positive though. |
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coyne
Paul McGrath Joined: 17 Aug 2013 Location: Sunderland Status: Offline Points: 15881 |
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Triamcinolone is not a banned substance. Source: http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/wada-2017-prohibited-list-en.pdf
Also Medical experts have given us what the drug actual does, it doesn't look too great for Wiggins but still inconclusive for Mo - "Triamcinoline is the standard go-to drug for inflammation injuries however can be used as an performance enhancer when taken in large quantities" Which means the large stock Wiggins had was for performance enhancer. But no one actually knows because it can't be proven if Farah had 1, 10 or 100 - The Triamcinolone although legal if used properly because no one knows how much was used, the doorbell and the dodgy coach he continues to affiliate with, as you say Deise it paints a very poor picture. there is evidence stacking against Farah but the cold hard evidence still isn't there. People forget how Wiggins actually came to public suspicion, it was on the same day of the Fancy Bears leak when people re-read his autobiography and he had written the line "I've never taken a TUE, not even an inhaler" It became obvious from that day that the bloke was a poor liar with something to hide. The experts' solution was pretty basic and correct - Give up medical confidentiality when you enter athletic sports. So when they are accused they can easily prove straight away they are using TUE's correctly. Edited by coyne - 02 Mar 2017 at 1:51am |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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It is a banned substance if administered by intra muscular injection (which Wiggins' use of it was, even though he claimed to be injection free in his autobiography) - http://www.sportireland.ie/Anti-Doping/Athlete-Zone/Advisory-Notes/ , as incidentally, was Mo Farah's. Hence the need for the TUE exemption, if it wasn't banned, they wouldn't have needed to apply for a TUE. The large stock of it British cycling/Sky had was described at yesterday's hearing as too much for one individual. So either you believe they had a shed load of it just in case a close to retirement cyclist needed it in the future, or there were other cyclists using the stuff as well. I'm fairly confident there as to which of those options are correct. TUE's are a legal/semi legal fudge, how about this for simplicity, if an athlete is sick, they don't compete, or compete without the drug, finish 22nd, write it off to a bad day & maybe they will have a better day next time when their ailment has cleared up. If this is a career long issue for some of them, pack it in or change to another sports discipline that the drug isn't required. I would dispute that Wiggins wasn't suspected, maybe not by the general public, but there were a good few informed people suspicious for a good while. For meself, I thought he was clean when he won the TDF (he certainly wasn't) but what made me suspect him was actually the performance of Froome, who was visibly stronger than him in 2012 and would have won were it not for team orders. After that; this is from the TDF thread in 2014, posted by meself, and there were plenty other sceptics on that thread, Landon, Shamtheram, Denis, Sid- to name a few; actually that whole thread is worth a read just to see how correct we were proved 3 years later.
link to thread here; https://forum.ybig.ie/tour-de-france-2014_topic49349_page6.html |
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ShamtheRam
Paul McGrath Joined: 05 Apr 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 18144 |
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Somalian Mo in some trouble now it seems. https://twitter.com/danroan/status/837739710608912384 Edited by ShamtheRam - 03 Mar 2017 at 9:59pm |
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YBIG NPF founder and CEO
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37953 |
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He'll be back to being Somalian in no time.
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Detail of this Salazar stuff is quite mad, as is often the case with these things. USADA, in their leaked document, have accused him and the Nike Oregon Project doctor, Dr Brown, of carrying out an experiment on athletes to see just how much testosterone gel would trigger a positive test. They say this is unlawful.
He also appears to have had a large quantity of the gel lying around the place. He said this was treatment for a medical condition he himself had. But of course it was, sure why would anyone think otherwise. That stuff would be of no use to athletes at all..... So back to Mo. Mo didn't always win things, then, when he went off to be coached by this lad, started winning everything. The coach has large quantities of testosterone gel lying about, for his own use of course, and experimented on athletes to see how much of it would trigger a positive test. So again, what do you wish to believe ? Salazar has a medical condition that can be treated by stuff that is coincidentally beneficial to athlete's performances. Salazar experimented with this stuff to see how much of it would trigger a positive test, just for maybe his own private research purposes, or because he was bored one day. Salazar is in fact a cheat, who used these techniques and possibly a few more, on other athletes, but not his most successful world star athlete. Before you come to a conclusion, have a look at the history of the sport, it helps a bit. |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Once these things start, its amazing how quickly it all unravels.....................
That's Matt Lawton again, him who broke some of the stories about Sky & went investigating Brad's jiffy bag of whatever it was nobody can remember was in it. So he has a good track record in this stuff. The article mentions EPO a few times, for some reason. That is a specific mention (but careful not to associate it with Farah) and not a random one, it is mentioned for a reason, and likely a reason he can't legally say. |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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This is becoming really hard to keep up with, but look at Sir Dave's latest excuse for the amount of triamcinolone held in British cycling's HQ.
Would you believe it, it's the same defence as Salazar, the stuff was there for his own use (and some other Sky employee who wasn't a cyclist) Just what are the odds of that ?? And wonder where he got the idea from ?? This must be the the all new standard default excuse, taking over from previous default excuse '' ingested clenbuterol in dodgy meat'' . Its really getting better by the day though. |
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37953 |
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f**kin hell. It's like "That Money Was Just Resting In My Account " |
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Online Points: 39834 |
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I thought he was getting his advantage from Quorn burgers |
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Well, at one stage in the past few years, Sky stated that their lads giving up Nutella was one of their competitive advantages, so anything is possible. |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Farah never needed to advertise qourn, he looks like a veggie.
I don't care enough to follow the ins and outs of it but I hope that **** is caught. |
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37953 |
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Online Points: 39834 |
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That's nuts isn't it!? Hazelnuts I believe. I actually have a large consignment of Nutella delivered suspiciously to my house but I assure you it's for my hazelnut deficiency disorder (HDD). Without it I might develop fat atrophy and depression. |
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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More stuff today, and at such a rate tis hard to know whether to start with Sir Dave/Sky or Mo. So will go for neither of them, the link isn't available yet but will put it up later, Eamonn Sweeney in today's Indo had a great article on both subjects;
Basically he outlines the series of excuses/bizarre coincidences that Sky etc want us to believe and rubbishes them. But also tells the tale of a kitten he had that drowned & when he told his 6 year old daughter what happened, she refused to believe it & in her own fantasy world, was seeing the kitten alive & well from time to time. There are lads on this thread seeing dead kittens alive & well, and they aren't 6 years of age. As regards the drugs, seems Sky/Dr Freeman/British cycling ordered 60 or 70 vials of triamcinolone for their HQ. Wiggins's use of it accounts for 3 or 4 vials. Dave said he got a shot or 2 of it himself, for a knee problem, so did some other Sky (non cyclist) employee. As for the rest of them ?? Well, sure this high tech team with their adherence to the theory of marginal gains, giving up nutella, taking lads own pillows on tour so they could sleep easier, training at altitude & all the rest, well, they forgot to keep medical records of medicines administered to cyclists (which is a medical dereliction of duty & professionally very serious for the doctors involved, there will be more on this angle) , so they don't really know where it all went. I would have a fair idea where to start looking though, all the same. There was also the case of Dr Freeman ordering testosterone patches (downright illegal) and these may or may not have been returned to sender when another Sky/GB cycling team doctor refused to sign off on the delivery. Think the official line on this is either ordered in error or not for cyclists use. (ie Kitten alive & well, not dead at all) Other Sky doctors were seemingly concerned about Freeman's use of triamcinolone & TUE's, so they changed their policy for TUE application, meaning 2 team docs had to sign off on it. Freeman asked for another one for Wiggins for the Tour of Britain 2013, none of the other 3 Sky Doc's would sign off on it, he didn't get one and finished nowhere, even though he was pre race favourite. This will be fun to watch, with nearly daily revelations at this stage. One of the Doctors, more so out of professional concerns, will crack at some point, I would be certain of it. As for Mo, here ya go; https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/05/nike-accused-hindering-usada-alberto-salazar-doping-investigation?CMP=twt_a-sport_b-ussports_c-us_g-1 Nike have a bit of form here too, remember the World Cup final in '98 and them making a clearly ill/unfit Ronaldo play in it ?? No allegation that they drugged Ronaldo, but very much an allegation that their commercial concerns overrode the well being & health of one of their big names. In this case, it looks like their commercial concerns are overriding a USADA investigation into Salazar. I wonder why, they hardly fear the outcome of it or anything mad like that ??? |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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A load of Sky cyclists simultaneously tweeted support for Sir Dave a few hours ago (suggesting a coordinated PR stunt) - not Chris Froome though. Within hours, Matt Lawton had this to say on it;
There are obviously some within that team, or some with huge insider knowledge of it, wanting to see the end of Sky/Dave, if they can't even keep a story like this (or the reasoning behind it) quiet for mere hours. Given Lawton's 100% track record so far in anything he has printed on this subject, there is no reason to doubt this too is accurate. |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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I do love Sweeney's writing style, I can completely and utterly disagree with him and still enjoy the article. He is spot on here though, very well put.
I really want Farah to go the full Lance Armstrong with open confessions on Piers Morgan, or maybe on 'This Morning' with the goofy one with the cracking rack while making a Quorn lasagne with the camp Italian chef.
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