Jack Charlton RIP

Jack had many flaws but was also a great character and a decent man.  There is a huge element of Irish fans esp who think the sun shone from his arse and he could do no wrong and he was almost perfect.  That is far from the truth and it actually does his legacy a disservice.  He was a simple man but to talk about him simply is incorrect.  There was a great podcast Dunphy and Brady and Giles did during lockdown which is well worth a listen.  If it was the only thing on Jack it would be deeply unfair but it’s a great addition to the canon of stuff on him as it gives another side to the story.  Giles was one of his best mates but is well able to critically analyse his football management and also is very stubborn nature.  Some of the stories of Jack getting thick are priceless.  Jack was also tighter than Newryrep.  He borrowed a Tenner from I think Ronnie Whelan or Jim Beglin before the first Ireland March 35 years ago at Manchester airport 😀😀 first time they met and he never gave it back 

Baldrick wrote: McG wrote: doherty wrote: McG wrote: doherty wrote: Is it not strange that jack and bobby were more like acquaintances than brothers tho? They had so much in common with football and bloody winning the world cup together. You would think they would be inseparable yet they were the opposite. I know families have they strange ways but its a little odd no? I know many brothers that arent close at all. Know twins that are much closer to their individual mates than their brother.   Pretty sure there was something to do with Bobby's missus having an influence on him (think he stopped seeing his Mam, open to correction on that) but he does come across as a cold person.  Ya i get all that but look at their lives..both professional football players and like i said they both sweated blood for England. You would think going thru all of that together they would be close esp as brothers. Thats life i suppose. And even his son saying he didnt really see Bobby at all. Sad really. it's fairly straightforward. Bobby was a bit of ****  That’s a very irish view of it.  Jack could be a bit of a **** too and a stubborn man also.  Bobby stuck up for wife which he was entitled to do as the mother was a bit of a bully a bit like her eldest son but also a heart of gold.  It’s nuanced in my view by in Ireland it’s often saint jack.  But many here felt his wrath at times such as Brady Whelan O Leary and others.

Baldrick wrote: 9fingers wrote: McG wrote: Mullen has some relevancy. He was heavily involved in Put Em Under Pressure and produced it. He is a fan of the team. But why is he a wankstain?  But Bertie is one slithering f**k. Talking about reclaiming our tricolor from the provos while paying his taxes abroad is a pretty good reason  Pays most of his taxes here and considering the vast majority if their income is earned elsewhere Ireland does well out of them living here.  One arm of their worldwide business is based in Holland.  But don’t let facts get in the way 😀😀😀

Larry Mullen is definitely not the only person to express this view. My recollections of the time would be similar to those of Baldrick.

Baldrick wrote: 9fingers wrote: Baldrick wrote: 9fingers wrote: McG wrote: Mullen has some relevancy. He was heavily involved in Put Em Under Pressure and produced it. He is a fan of the team. But why is he a wankstain?  But Bertie is one slithering f**k. Talking about reclaiming our tricolor from the provos while paying his taxes abroad is a pretty good reason  Pays most of his taxes here and considering the vast majority if their income is earned elsewhere Ireland does well out of them living here.  One arm of their worldwide business is based in Holland.  But don’t let facts get in the way 😀😀😀 All royalty payments from their records and live performances were funneled through The Netherlands.  The line about reclaiming the flag is still enough to be called a massive wankstain.  It’s their publishing company which is royalties from record sales, I don’t believe ticket sales etc are counted in the publishing company and I believe they are not routed through the publishing company which is based in Holland.   In relation to the flag,  there are many people who hold this view.  It seems to offend a number of people esp on social media.  There would be many hold the view that if you stuck an Irish flag on your house prior to euro 88 or Italia 90 it had political connotations and I certainly don’t remember many Irish flags being put up on people’s houses during the 80s with the exception of those families that supported SF.  His view is his opinion and I don’t think it makes him a wankstain but if that’s how things are debated nowadays so be it.

Trying to find the story/video without success that goes something like as follows:

Edited by t_rAndy - 30 Mar 2021 at 9:57am

Jack took a group of very good players and created a collective which brought qualification to tournaments for the first time. In doing so the team gave the country a huge boost to its psyche when we were on very difficult times of high unemployment and forced emigration following the pattern of the late 1950s. The economic woes only became apparent to me in later years as I was in my late teenager years in the mid 80s, was having a ball and didnt have any financial obligations or responsibilities. He was a very popular man and had a very straight manner which people warmed to. He was belligerent, had strong views and it was his way or the highway. One of telling things for me was in one of his handwritten notes - be a dictator but a nice one. While the style of football wasnt to the purests liking it got unprecedented results, I tend to think some of the irish football cognoscenti resented his successes.The contribution of Larry Mullen and Aherne were for a different programme and in Mullens case were ridiculous. Every St Patrick's day parade in the country were lead by the tricolour, every Easter military parade were lead by the tricolour and so on. The tricolour was in evidence at football games, look at old clips, the home game to France in 1981 comes to mind. Overall it was a bittersweet film filled with some happy memories and some poignancy of Jack's latter years.

Edited by Cabra Hoop - 30 Mar 2021 at 10:18am

Baldrick wrote: but that’s not what happens they don’t just debate the point they call them various different names based on their opinion.  This thread already had it and you are guilty of it.  I believe JBJ got it wrong and you are somehow blaming Bono for it 😀😀😀 why would Bono clarify it because a few people on social media took offence by it 😀😀😀

At Last i got to see the Doc last night .