We’re not Brasil we’re Tuaisceart Éireann

SuperDave84 wrote: It's also not about abolishing the Northern Ireland team - it's about uniting the two teams. Jonny Evans, Chris Brunt and quite a few others would still get their game you know.

Oh ffs! 

Edited by Territorial - 07 Feb 2018 at 1:33pm

thebronze14 wrote: Bob Hoskins wrote: This friendly match will bring out loads of ****s that wouldn't go to watch a match normally. It is good to have the game though  If possible we will try and organise a fans match, although we weren't allowed to have it the last time we played each other. The Gardai said, we have spoken to the IFA and they have said there are loads of trouble makers that will be playing the game, and once, one of them at 11 years old chased his friend with dog sh*t on a stick. Played them in two friendlies before and they were two enjoyable games! Pints after in Dundela club house and all

Edited by Bob Hoskins - 07 Feb 2018 at 1:37pm

Territorial wrote: Oh ffs!  Sometimes I feel like I'm Father Ted trying to explain perspective to Father Dougal:

I'm going to ignore this bit.

Were there to be a single Irish international team, that must inevitably mean the abolition/ending/discontinuance/whatever of the NI team. Which is what the overwhelming majority of the NI support opposes (even if the ROI support is insufficiently bothered about their team disappearing to resist the notion for themselves). Why cannot you see my/our point?

I do see your point - but a United Ireland team would mean a team for the entire 32 counties. It wouldn't have to be one team subsuming another. As has been wittily put in the past, the IFA have no problem in accepting it if the breakaway FAI want to cease operations.

I accept that the majority of the NI support oppose a United Ireland team - but that's not the point. The team does not represent the NI support, it represents Northern Ireland as a whole. That's the basic point of a representative international team, and you are ignoring it. Until you address it, your point has limited validity.

And why won't you accept that there is NO precedent for any such "replacement" team, unless/until there is a single political jurisdiction on the island. And even then that would be no guarantee, as eg China/HK/Macao demonstrate.

I've never said, before now, that there is precedent. You haven't said why there needs to be precedent either.

Although now I am saying there is precedent for a team representing multiple sovereign states, aside from the CIS example above:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Bonini

A Sammarinese player who played for Italy Under-23s before the San Marino team was recognised by UEFA. San Marino has always been a sovereign state (well, since 301AD), yet the Italian team before 1990 effectively included San Marino. I'm not sure what the position is with Monagasque players today, or Andorrans before they became UEFA/FIFA members.

Now, there isn't an example of a united team involving one sovereign state and a part of another sovereign state, but frankly that's asking far too much - Ireland's history and partition, with one part ultimately remaining part of the UK, is close to unique. Up until the dissolving of the Northern administration in the 1960's, they were classed by the UK as a dominion, as far as I know, and entitled to pass acts in accordance with the 1931 Statute of Westminster, and declare independence. Certainly, until 1937 and the passage of the Constitution of Ireland, and arguably until the passage of the Republic of Ireland Act, both the north and the south had an equal position in the eyes of the UK government, effectively as two equal dominions. The fact that the north now is different, and effectively a part of the UK, is an artifact of history, civil rights and the troubles, more than anything else.

There are a heap of representative sides that do represent the entire island of Ireland - football is very much the exception, rather than the rule. Also, until the 1940s or 1950s, both teams used to select players from either side of the border, and were allowed to do so, so there is indeed history here, never mind anywhere else.

I don't see the need to provide precedent, but there is, now I think about it, heaps.

Floreat Ultonia wrote: As I'm sure you realise, it depends on the question. Adding the qualifier "if both sides agree" would increase the positive response. Framing it as I do with explicit mention of the NI team disappearing would clearly reduce it. Not least because most people in Ireland like anywhere else have only a passing interest, not the obsession of talkboard regulars.

Indeed - have a look at the Yes Minister (or was it Yes Prime Minister?) bit on national service. It all depends on framing. While NI fans may oppose it, I think there's a good chance the majority of the population would be in favour of a united team, depending on how it is phrased. I'll certainly agree on that.

Our fans basically by definition don't want to unite with/ subsume into/ take over your team. This is obvious to the point of being self-evident. By refusing to accept it you are just arguing blind faith. It's telling that many others on the thread quickly tire of this and start droning on about colonialism and gerrymandering tiocfaidh ar blah blah

Again, there's a difference between NI fans and the NI population as a whole. I certainly don't think the NI fanbase is representative of the NI population as a whole, for the reason that a vast minority of the population don't support the team.


As a final point, both of you seem to conflate the identities of the Northern Ireland fanbase with the Northern Ireland population as a whole - that's wanton cultural blindness. I appreciate the IFA have been doing very good work in cross-community engagement but there's no doubt that the fanbase is not representative of the population as a whole, much and all as it may be moving in the right direction. Finally, as a northerner who has lived in Dublin for fifteen years and who supports the ROI, I do still want Northern Ireland to do well - I just think we'd do better as a united team.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 07 Feb 2018 at 2:03pm

SuperDave84 wrote: As a final point, both of you seem to conflate the identities of the Northern Ireland fanbase with the Northern Ireland population as a whole - that's wanton cultural blindness

Edited by Floreat Ultonia - 07 Feb 2018 at 2:31pm

Floreat Ultonia wrote: SuperDave84 wrote: As a final point, both of you seem to conflate the identities of the Northern Ireland fanbase with the Northern Ireland population as a whole - that's wanton cultural blindness You what? In the same post you quoted me saying almost the exact opposite. Most people have only a passing interest in the game; in NI most of those that do are divided into two. As for the cultural blindness charge, apart from being pretentious you are simply wrong. I acknowledge all cultures (and fwiw I've also lived in the South).

SuperDave84 wrote: Territorial wrote: Were there to be a single Irish international team, that must inevitably mean the abolition/ending/discontinuance/whatever of the NI team. Which is what the overwhelming majority of the NI support opposes (even if the ROI support is insufficiently bothered about their team disappearing to resist the notion for themselves). Why cannot you see my/our point? I do see your point - but a United Ireland team would mean a team for the entire 32 counties. It wouldn't have to be one team subsuming another.

It doesn't matter how you frame it, it doesn't matter what you want, the inevitable consequence of what you are advocating would mean the end/abolition/discontinuance/disappearance of the team I support.

terri, 2 questions. 

Territorial wrote: Trap junior wrote: If you join a United Ireland we will give you 50 % off a season ticket and a years supply of Jaffa Cakes and 100 euro worth of Bitcoin.  We will even let Jackie Fullerton replace Darragh Moloney as presnter.  Can't say fairer than that. Tell you what, if Martin O'Neill can be the team manager, you might just have a deal. You in?

This crowd shouldn't even be allowed to play international Football.

I don't know why people are even discussing the possibility of an All Ireland team. There already is an All Ireland team ffs. Whether your from Cork or Derry you can represent Ireland at Football and play under the tricolor.