We’re not Brasil we’re Tuaisceart Éireann

SByrne24 wrote: Green Devil wrote: Firstly, using another nations anthem is hardly a way of showing your own identity? Secondly, given Northern Ireland's past history of bigotry among their support, the management and even in their the FA why don't they look to continue the good work that's been done to stamp out sectarianism and move forward in a new light. I.e. new anthem and flag that shows both sides are now united under flag and anthem? Also Muff, wouldn't it be nice for the Nationalist players and supporters be given a chance to actually sing an anthem where they can truly feel comfortably too. Let's face it GSTQ in the North is a Protestant's anthem and Protestants alone. Green Devil, you're living in La La land. I don't mean that rudely either we'd all like that but they are quite happy with the way things are up there it'll never change because they don't want it to, the thought of a flag not being the usual caused a riot and an enquiry.

Ah well I'm only brainstorming and throwing stuff out there

Personally, I think it would be great for both sides to have a flag and an anthem that isn't more one side than the other. I'm not looking for Stormont to change the "countries" flag and the anthem of the nation, but the FA could easily do with the IRFU have done and made a rugby flag and a rugby anthem that represents both sides strictly for the sport and nothing else.

Green Devil wrote: Firstly, using another nations anthem is hardly a way of showing your own identity? Secondly, given Northern Ireland's past history of bigotry among their support, the management and even in their FA why don't they look to continue the good work that's been done to stamp out sectarianism and move forward in a new light. I.e. new anthem and flag that shows both sides are now united under flag and anthem? Also Muff, wouldn't it be nice for the Nationalist players and supporters be given a chance to actually sing an anthem where they can truly feel comfortably too. Let's face it GSTQ in the North is a Protestant's anthem and Protestants alone.

But GD there isn't an appetite for any compromise in this. Nationalists in N.I. will generally support the ROI team. Irish Unionists in N.I. will generally support the N.I. football team and probably feel GSTQ is their anthem.
GTSQ is an anthem Unionists identify with. Protestants and Catholics shouldn't come into this argument as you're blurring the lines between religion and nationality. You can have Catholic Unionists and Protestant Republicans.

A lot of scottish unionists support england rather than scotland. It would be reasonable to play GSTQ if there was a british team but there is not, I'm sure a lot of england supporters would go with Jerusalem as their anthem as scotland and wales use their own.   The IRFU rightly changed the anthem to include unionists so the IFA should do the same. But not a hope in hell they will as they still see it as "their" team.

@Still Hunting Henry:

Gerry Kelly's election leaflet was clearly sectarian because it asked Belfast North voters to support Sinn Fein (by implication only) if they were Catholics. Obviously it failed in the short term and in the longer it totally contradicts SF's claim to appeal to the whole community in opposing austerity and so on.

Nigel Dodds' and Gavin Robinson's equally sectarian antics don't justify Kelly's, do they?

“My lot” are the Green Party btw. I never gave any Unionist party first preference when I lived locally. Why not try to get away from the assumption that everyone who opposes Irish unity is a frothing religious maniac or condones paramilitarism?

A quick read of this thread shows most of the exaggerated outrage coming from Nationalists, don't ye think?

@IrishMUFC:

Northern Irishness as an identity would be redundant if people didn't use it. Since anecdotal, large-scale survey and census evidence suggests hundreds of thousands do, your point makes little sense.

@Green Devil:

Many NI fans (self included) would prefer a unique anthem to be played before games. Danny Boy would be fine for me.

An admittedly smaller number would be prepared to change our flag.

@Floreat Ultonia

The term makes as much sense as Western Irish, Eastern Irish. It's not a nationality and you can keep proclaiming it all you want. Bring from the North of Ireland, you're still Irish.

Floreat Ultonia wrote: I'm both <span style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">100% Irish and </span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">100% British. IIRC this caused you some problems when previously discussed but hey, live and let live baby. </span>

I think a lot of people fail to realise this....

Shared culture and all of that.

Irish Duke wrote: they were disgusted at the chanting of the famine song

I don't know how anyone would be disgusted by that being sung by the nordies. it makes no sense for anyone in ireland to be singing it. Anyone in Ireland singing it should be laughed at for being a dribbling simpleton.

The song has a very specific setting in terms of immigration to Scotland, it is meaningless in Ireland.

Do they actually think hunger made distinction between religion, did the lord drop manna from heaven for starving protestants or something? Whereabouts are the Irish supposed to be going home to?




Edited by Tony Cousins - 19 Jun 2015 at 12:07pm

irishmufc wrote: @ Territorial I know FIFA recognise football associations. Im saying all nations should have their own football associations.

Presumably so long as you get to decide what constitutes a "nation"...

Tbh, I think I'd sooner leave it to Sepp Blatter...

irishmufc wrote: @ Territorial Eligibility shouldn't be one or the other. There are other factors to consider. I've no problem with an Irish Unionist in the Republic wanting to declare for N.I. seeing as an Irish citizen in N.I. can play for the Republic. Nationality and birthplace are other factors that can qualify you. If there is a rule that benefits us in the Republic well then the same courtesy rule should be extended to Unionists down here. I wouldn't support any Irishman playing for N.I. But they should have the right to.

But what you seem to be saying is that an Irish National, born and brought up in the ROI, and with no right to British citizenship, should still be permitted to represent one of the four British Association.

What if he prefers to play for one of the others, due, say, to some ancestor from Scotland or England a century back? ?/What if his politics change? How does someone prove he is a "Unionist"?

You clearly haven't thought this one through, since the idea that someones personal political preference should ultimately be permitted to override all other factors, such as birthplace and Nationality, when considering which team he may represent, is bonkers.

In addition, in the particular Irish context, there are likely to be a hell of a sight fewer ROI "Unionists" opting for NI than NI Nationalists opting for ROI.

But I don't suppose that enters into your thinking, does it?

SByrne24 wrote: Territorial - 'Fairly' I want a fair society where i can bring my girlfriend to the North and not be intimidated by 50 Union Jacks on one street, UVF and Para flags. Kerbs and streets painted red white and blue, that lets not forget is criminal damage yet the PSNI turn a blind eye. Lets not also let slip the same guys that do this annually are the same crowd who make their way to Windsor to support the 'Norn Iron' (our wee country) in my case with my girlfriend a girl from small town Wicklow who isn't use to seeing areas such as, Portavogie, Clough, Larne, its a culture shock and very intimidating infact she wouldn't go into the shop with me. Are nationalists going to get a fair society one day? No we're not. So in your case deal with it

What on earth has any of that got to do with Football?

You really need to take a step back and try to draw some perspective.

To take an analogy, when people from a Nationalist background trot off to watch their local GAA club on a Sunday play one brand of football, it doesn't mean they are all inevitably also "striking a blow for the Republic", or "kicking the Brits" or "securing a United Ireland" etc.

Rather, they're just young people off to watch football.

And when people from a Unionist background go off to follow their team play, they doing exactly the same, just a different brand. Same goes for Nationalists who follow the Beautiful Game in NI, too.

SByrne24 wrote: . the reality is.. at least 45% of the population don't recognise Northern Ireland, how can you expect a player to play for a nation he doesn't firstly believe in and secondly even recognise. Impossible.

"Impossible"?

Consider this reply given by Derryman and former Glasgow Celt, Paddy McCourt, in a 2013 interview with Gerry Doyle of the "Irish Post" (an Irish newspaper published in England):

"Northern Ireland's fans have always been superb to me", he says. "And long may that continue. It is the way it should be, because we are playing for our country. People [in Derry] understand why I wanted to play for Northern Ireland. They know it's a sport, that people want to play international football. I play for Northern Ireland and love it. Fans respect that. It's football... [not politics]"

That is the same Paddy McCourt who was threatened by some unknown "Loyalist" scumbag, who was approached by the FAI when a youngster, and who is still the most popular player with the NI fans in the last decade (after David Healy).