We’re not Brasil we’re Tuaisceart Éireann

Floreat Ultonia wrote: Says the man with at least three typos in the signature that follows each post. It's sh*it geezer, not to mention neither big nor clever.

Says the man with at least three typos in the signature that follows each post.

irishmufc wrote: Territorial wrote: irishmufc wrote:   So basically if any N.I. fans are involved in trouble it's just drunken twats not N.I. fans yah?Cue more whataboutery which is your hallmark on here.   It's been about 3 posts since you sent us hyperlinks to various websites of N.I. fans good behavior. You're slipping No, that's not what I'm saying at all, so don't try to put words in my mouth. What I'm saying is that NI fans do not get involved in organised violence, such as was visited upon us on a somewhat minor scale by Croatian fans last week, and on a much more serious scale by Polish hoolies in 2009. Never said N.I. fans got involved in organised violence. Which is not to say that we don't have our share of idiots sprinkled amongst our support, just as every other group of fans does, including your own. So you admit it.  Thank you Also when abused and attacked, some of our fans will respond in kind, fans who do not initiate trouble in the absence of provocation. Which I suspect is similar to your own fanbase too. No issue with this and with Coachers explanation of the event.   Anyhow, to get back to events in Belfast in 2009. I distinctly remember the Polish Consul apologising the next day for the behaviour of their hooligan minority. I can't find it now, but here are two other commentaries from local Poles in the aftermath. Here we go more links   Aleksandra Lojek-Magdziarz in The Guardian: Poland's hooligans export violence Rioting by Polish 'pseudo fans' under a republican flag threatens to entangle Belfast's Poles in sectarian violence "Rioting of the kind provoked by Polish football hooligans in Belfast at the weekend is a sadly frequent occurrence in Poland. Now I fear these people may do a great deal of damage to relations between Northern Irish and Polish communities in the city... ... Not all Polish football fans are violent, of course, the majority are ordinary people who love football, but an aggressive minority are loud and highly dangerous. I have great respect for the Police Service of Northern Ireland, but they seem to have been ill-prepared for the influx of thugs. "Pseudo fans", as we call them in Polish, use various thoughtless symbols to underscore their rebellious attitude. In Northern Ireland they used a republican flag to provoke people in Belfast. It revealed their absolute ignorance: they do not support dissident republicans in the slightest, mainly because they have no idea who they are. Back in Poland, some of the hooligans call themselves "Hezbollah" and proclaim "jihad" on other teams. You can bet they know nothing about Middle Eastern politics." [Btw, the flag she refers to was an Eirige flag    ] And Maciek Bator in the Newsletter spoke of his "shame" at the antics of the Polish hooligans who came to NI specifically to cause trouble. For some reason, I can't cut and paste the article, but here is the link: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/polish-community-chief-ashamed-of-hooligans-1-1882854 And here is what an NI journalist, Deborah McAleese reported in the Belfast Telegraph: Gangs of "professional" Polish football hooligans have been blamed for organising the violent battles in the streets of Belfast at the weekend The violence, which saw 11 police officers injured, had been in planning for several weeks by gangs of Polish thugs mainly based in Dublin and Scotland. Around 800 Polish nationals travelled to Northern Ireland without tickets for the game. It is understood that around 50 were involved in the organisation of the violence which flared before and after the match. “We believe there was a hard core of Polish nationals who came to the game without tickets but with a very clear intent to cause trouble and disruption to genuine supporters and local residents,” PSNI Superintendent Chris Noble said. Meanwhile, PSNI arrests and subsequent Court convictions were overwhelmingly of Polish Nationals who had travelled to NI from GB and beyond. Next let's fast forward 9 years(!) to Nice during Euro2016. There we saw thousands of Polish and NI fans mixing entirely amicably before, during and after the game. I happened to be chatting to a couple of Poles a few weeks after, both football fans, and eventually broached the topic of Polish football hooligans. With events from 2009 in Belfast in mind (also their attempts to attack us in Chorzow at the return), I commented on how friendly their fans had been out in France. They told me that the Polish Government had been so worried about their hoolies kicking off at the tournament, that they had arrested their leaders weeks before, to prevent them from travelling. But hey, you probably know far more about all this than I. Or maybe minor matters like facts, eye-witness accounts and impartial reports don't matter to you when you're in "attack mode" [sic] against NI fans. Did you not read my response to Coachers? Which ironically is a very good definition of prejudice and intolerance in itself...    It was tongue-in -cheek and hardly a sinister threat. Then again that humour might be lost on someone from angryland

This is very disingenuous.

In the context of the violence at Poland game in Belfast, you claimed "It can't all have been one way".

In fact it can and it was.

A large group of Polish hooligans came to Belfast intent on trouble. They attacked various NI fans and passers-by at random both away from the stadium and on the way to the match. They were able to get away with much of this unchecked, since the PSNI were completely unprepared for this. (This alone suggests that however else they were unaware of the Polish threat, the PSNI also did not expect any trouble from NI fans).
During the game, their hooligans attempted to enter the nearest NI section. When that failed, they jumped down to an empty terrace in front and started fires and let off flares.
I believe (though didn't witness) there was also trouble from them after the game.
In those circumstances, it was inevitable that some of our fans, plus other non-fan locals, would react, whether to defend themselves, and/or to fight back. I do not defend, condone or deny this.
However, I would say that such a reaction is just as likely to follow eg in London, Glasgow, Cardiff or Dublin as in Belfast, especially when drink is factored in. Therefore this is not a peculiarly 'Norn Iron' thing

Yet you and others on here seem incapable of accepting this, even when corroborated by independent eye witness accounts, PSNI statements and arrests, and even by Polish observers themselves. Indeed, the fact that you employ mockery when someone provides links (i.e. hard evidence) to these, indicates that when it comes down to it, you are not really willing to accept anything which challenges your pre-conceived ideas.

Which ironically, is reflective of the very prejudice that you decry in others.

And why do I make such a big thing of this? Well think of it this way. I have been an NI fan for more years than I care to remember. Much of this has been a painful experience, both on and off the field. Indeed there was a period when the civil strife which blighted NI for so many decades (inevitably) spilled over into the game, prompting events which were both sad and shameful. I do not deny any of this.

But such events are now very scarce, not least because a large number of genuine fans have worked extremely hard - and successfully - over many years to eradicate the scourge of sectarianism and violence from NI games. Consequently, those efforts have been recognised and in many quarters in NI, ROI, GB and Europe etc, including most recently by the Mayor of Paris after Euro2016, with the self-same Medal as your fellow ROI fans (deservedly) received.

Which is not to say that every single episode or incident has been, or ever will be, completely eradicated. But the fact that there is a residual, recidivist element amongst people who would still attach themselves to our team hardly makes us unique. Rather it just makes us the same as many other teams, including your own - as one or two posters on this thread have had the honesty and integrity to acknowledge.

Would that you followed their example.

Being investigated by FIFA over the poppies

Irish2011 wrote: Linfield fans had a "No Surrender" flag removed by security on Saturday.

Coachers wrote: Irish2011 wrote: Heard security had to save Cliftonville directors from a baying mob of Linfield supporters the weekend. "Football for all". With no mention of it in the local news at the weekend and nothing in over 150 comments on the game in the Cliftonville section of ILSF, I'll be honest I had no idea what you were referring to. Indeed, the only complaint from a Cliftonville official I had previously noted was that he couldn't get a hot drink at the game. A report did surface in the Irish News, although it paints a slightly different picture of what you are saying above, with it stating   The Cliftonville FC chairman told The Irish News on Sunday while some Linfield fans directed abuse at him, the reports had been "blown out of proportion." Absolutely no mention of anything sectarian being directed at him in the report, with it continuing Mr Lawlor said: "They were a bunch of yahoos who decided to give their opinion. They weren't that close by and I walked inside."

Coachers wrote: peterbelfast wrote: Plenty of idiots i would agree, but i haven't seen to many involved in fighting and singing sectarian songs To say that a small section of Republic 'fans' do not get involved in singing sectarian songs is either naive or simply blinkered. I am certainly not on this forum to get involved in a game of they did this, but they did that, however to highlight that unfortunately it does happen, I would refer you to the clip below. Although no doubt you will try to tell us that singing about the IRA or hating the Queen is just a bit of craic and in no way sectarian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq6EEUZevZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXnzNbvzXMw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHeigdGLB64 I have no doubt that the majority of Republic fans, like Northern Ireland fans, do not welcome that type of behaviour and rightfully distance themselves from it. That is certainly the feeling given by my friends who regularly attend Republic games and those I met in Paris during the Euros.

Territorial wrote: irishmufc wrote:   So basically if any N.I. fans are involved in trouble it's just drunken twats not N.I. fans yah?Cue more whataboutery which is your hallmark on here.   It's been about 3 posts since you sent us hyperlinks to various websites of N.I. fans good behavior. You're slipping No, that's not what I'm saying at all, so don't try to put words in my mouth. What I'm saying is that NI fans do not get involved in organised violence, such as was visited upon us on a somewhat minor scale by Croatian fans last week, and on a much more serious scale by Polish hoolies in 2009. Never said N.I. fans got involved in organised violence. Which is not to say that we don't have our share of idiots sprinkled amongst our support, just as every other group of fans does, including your own. So you admit it.  Thank you Also when abused and attacked, some of our fans will respond in kind, fans who do not initiate trouble in the absence of provocation. Which I suspect is similar to your own fanbase too. No issue with this and with Coachers explanation of the event.   Anyhow, to get back to events in Belfast in 2009. I distinctly remember the Polish Consul apologising the next day for the behaviour of their hooligan minority. I can't find it now, but here are two other commentaries from local Poles in the aftermath. Here we go more links   Aleksandra Lojek-Magdziarz in The Guardian: Poland's hooligans export violence Rioting by Polish 'pseudo fans' under a republican flag threatens to entangle Belfast's Poles in sectarian violence "Rioting of the kind provoked by Polish football hooligans in Belfast at the weekend is a sadly frequent occurrence in Poland. Now I fear these people may do a great deal of damage to relations between Northern Irish and Polish communities in the city... ... Not all Polish football fans are violent, of course, the majority are ordinary people who love football, but an aggressive minority are loud and highly dangerous. I have great respect for the Police Service of Northern Ireland, but they seem to have been ill-prepared for the influx of thugs. "Pseudo fans", as we call them in Polish, use various thoughtless symbols to underscore their rebellious attitude. In Northern Ireland they used a republican flag to provoke people in Belfast. It revealed their absolute ignorance: they do not support dissident republicans in the slightest, mainly because they have no idea who they are. Back in Poland, some of the hooligans call themselves "Hezbollah" and proclaim "jihad" on other teams. You can bet they know nothing about Middle Eastern politics." [Btw, the flag she refers to was an Eirige flag    ] And Maciek Bator in the Newsletter spoke of his "shame" at the antics of the Polish hooligans who came to NI specifically to cause trouble. For some reason, I can't cut and paste the article, but here is the link: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/polish-community-chief-ashamed-of-hooligans-1-1882854 And here is what an NI journalist, Deborah McAleese reported in the Belfast Telegraph: Gangs of "professional" Polish football hooligans have been blamed for organising the violent battles in the streets of Belfast at the weekend The violence, which saw 11 police officers injured, had been in planning for several weeks by gangs of Polish thugs mainly based in Dublin and Scotland. Around 800 Polish nationals travelled to Northern Ireland without tickets for the game. It is understood that around 50 were involved in the organisation of the violence which flared before and after the match. “We believe there was a hard core of Polish nationals who came to the game without tickets but with a very clear intent to cause trouble and disruption to genuine supporters and local residents,” PSNI Superintendent Chris Noble said. Meanwhile, PSNI arrests and subsequent Court convictions were overwhelmingly of Polish Nationals who had travelled to NI from GB and beyond. Next let's fast forward 9 years(!) to Nice during Euro2016. There we saw thousands of Polish and NI fans mixing entirely amicably before, during and after the game. I happened to be chatting to a couple of Poles a few weeks after, both football fans, and eventually broached the topic of Polish football hooligans. With events from 2009 in Belfast in mind (also their attempts to attack us in Chorzow at the return), I commented on how friendly their fans had been out in France. They told me that the Polish Government had been so worried about their hoolies kicking off at the tournament, that they had arrested their leaders weeks before, to prevent them from travelling. But hey, you probably know far more about all this than I. Or maybe minor matters like facts, eye-witness accounts and impartial reports don't matter to you when you're in "attack mode" [sic] against NI fans. Did you not read my response to Coachers? Which ironically is a very good definition of prejudice and intolerance in itself...    It was tongue-in -cheek and hardly a sinister threat. Then again that humour might be lost on someone from angryland