You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : International : Rest of The World
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Decline of the EPL
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


The Decline of the EPL

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4243444546 54>
Author
Message
NewtNewbie View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 2416
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2020 at 7:21pm
The simple answers are always the most seductive.

An obvious point, but the great paradox is that the stronger and more important a club's domestic league is, the more difficult it is for that club to excell in European competition.

Thusly, European success isn't absolute evidence that a certain club's European performance necessarily suggests the predominance of the league that club plays in.


Edited by NewtNewbie - 30 Oct 2020 at 7:22pm
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Roberto Baggio View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
UNBELIEVABLE JEFF

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 37333
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2020 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

La Liga has gone miles back from what it was even three years ago

I don't see how anybody can deny that

Might make it more competitive but there are no outstanding teams there

And La Liga was the only real competitor to the Premier League for which was the best league



Agree
It doesn’t matter how many CL’s La Liga have won in the last 5 or 10 years really as we’re talking about the present day, and no team in La Liga is great at the minute 

Spanish clubs have won more than English clubs in the present day also.

And Seville knocked out 2 English clubs on the way to winning it too!

They last won a CL 3 seasons ago I mean, and their top teams have declined a lot since then

I’ll give you the EL record, maybe their next tier down from the top few teams are stronger than those in England 
Back to Top
coyne View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Location: Sunderland
Status: Offline
Points: 15881
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2020 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

La Liga has gone miles back from what it was even three years ago

I don't see how anybody can deny that

Might make it more competitive but there are no outstanding teams there

And La Liga was the only real competitor to the Premier League for which was the best league



Agree
It doesn’t matter how many CL’s La Liga have won in the last 5 or 10 years really as we’re talking about the present day, and no team in La Liga is great at the minute 

Spanish clubs have won more than English clubs in the present day also.

And Seville knocked out 2 English clubs on the way to winning it too!

They last won a CL 3 seasons ago I mean, and their top teams have declined a lot since then

I’ll give you the EL record, maybe their next tier down from the top few teams are stronger than those in England 

Sevilla would easily do well in the EPL and they don't even come close in terms of budgets either.

Barca are a team in total transition so they'll be out of the picture for a few seasons, but even then they made a very convincing win against Juve last night.

If you look at who Real Madrid have lost over 2-3 years it's easy to see why they've declined, some serious voids left.
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Sevilla would easily do well in the EPL and they don't even come close in terms of budgets either.
True enough, I'd say.

But if Sevilla are the fourth or fifth best team in Spain, I'd expect the fourth or fifth team in England (Chelsea? Man U? Spurs? Arsenal?) to do equally well in La Liga.

I mean, two of those have won the CL and the other two got to the Final (all relatively recently), which is something Sevilla have never achieved.
Back to Top
coyne View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Location: Sunderland
Status: Offline
Points: 15881
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Sevilla would easily do well in the EPL and they don't even come close in terms of budgets either.
I'd expect the fourth or fifth team in England (Chelsea? Man U? Spurs? Arsenal?) to do equally well in La Liga.


That's not an achievement when the bottom club in the EPL gets 10 times more the revenue than 17 clubs in La Liga.

EPL clubs get a base TV fee of £100 million for 15 live games and then they get more if they're added in the winter/spring fixtures
La Liga clubs only get TV money based on how many live TV games are shown, so clubs like Huesca for example get worse than Championship money.

So for Sevilla to be within that group and be able to stand and bang with the best in Europe is an excellent achievement.


Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Sevilla would easily do well in the EPL and they don't even come close in terms of budgets either.
I'd expect the fourth or fifth team in England (Chelsea? Man U? Spurs? Arsenal?) to do equally well in La Liga.


That's not an achievement when the bottom club in the EPL gets 10 times more the revenue than 17 clubs in La Liga.

EPL clubs get a base TV fee of £100 million for 15 live games and then they get more if they're added in the winter/spring fixtures
La Liga clubs only get TV money based on how many live TV games are shown, so clubs like Huesca for example get worse than Championship money.

So for Sevilla to be within that group and be able to stand and bang with the best in Europe is an excellent achievement.

I'm not disparaging Sevilla's achievements on a small budget, nor do I dismiss the fact of the PL being much so much richer than La Liga.

But the debate concerns which is the "better" (quality, competitiveness, excitement, strength in depth etc) of the two.

And my opinion is that the PL is overall a better league than La Liga, not least because it is a richer one, and is now finally applying those riches to good effect.

And I would go further by stating that this has been disguised by the excellence of two or three (only) Spanish clubs, which itself partly derives from the way La Liga's wealth used to be unfairly distributed to those clubs' favour (essentially clubs negotiating and keeping their own TV deals, rather than collectively as a league).

But there is clear evidence that both Barca and Real are now in big trouble financially, with Covid merely exacerbating this, not causing it.

Meanwhile Atletico are heavily dependant upon Simeone, who has now been in charge for a decade; should he decide to leave, he would leave a huge gap to fill.
Back to Top
coyne View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Location: Sunderland
Status: Offline
Points: 15881
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Sevilla would easily do well in the EPL and they don't even come close in terms of budgets either.
I'd expect the fourth or fifth team in England (Chelsea? Man U? Spurs? Arsenal?) to do equally well in La Liga.


That's not an achievement when the bottom club in the EPL gets 10 times more the revenue than 17 clubs in La Liga.

EPL clubs get a base TV fee of £100 million for 15 live games and then they get more if they're added in the winter/spring fixtures
La Liga clubs only get TV money based on how many live TV games are shown, so clubs like Huesca for example get worse than Championship money.

So for Sevilla to be within that group and be able to stand and bang with the best in Europe is an excellent achievement.

And my opinion is that the PL is overall a better league than La Liga, not least because it is a richer one, and is now finally applying those riches to good effect.

This is factually incorrect. English sides came up against a Spanish side 6 times last year, and won once, with 1 draw and 4 losses

Valencia beat Chelsea,
Valencia drew with Chelsea in their 2nd game
Sevilla beat Wolves
Sevilla beat Man Utd
Athletico Madrid beat Liverpool
Man City beat Real Madrid

It would suggest English clubs are actually turgid steaming piles of sh*te for what budgets they're on. They have absolutely nothing to show.


Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Sevilla would easily do well in the EPL and they don't even come close in terms of budgets either.
I'd expect the fourth or fifth team in England (Chelsea? Man U? Spurs? Arsenal?) to do equally well in La Liga.


That's not an achievement when the bottom club in the EPL gets 10 times more the revenue than 17 clubs in La Liga.

EPL clubs get a base TV fee of £100 million for 15 live games and then they get more if they're added in the winter/spring fixtures
La Liga clubs only get TV money based on how many live TV games are shown, so clubs like Huesca for example get worse than Championship money.

So for Sevilla to be within that group and be able to stand and bang with the best in Europe is an excellent achievement.

And my opinion is that the PL is overall a better league than La Liga, not least because it is a richer one, and is now finally applying those riches to good effect.

This is factually incorrect. English sides came up against a Spanish side 6 times last year, and won once, with 1 draw and 4 losses

Valencia beat Chelsea,
Valencia drew with Chelsea in their 2nd game
Sevilla beat Wolves
Sevilla beat Man Utd
Athletico Madrid beat Liverpool
Man City beat Real Madrid

It would suggest English clubs are actually turgid steaming piles of sh*te for what budgets they're on. They have absolutely nothing to show.
I'll see yuur (selective) 6 games from last season and raise you my every game against every European opponent from the last three seasons:
https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2020

And for 2020/21 so far, English clubs have accumulated 5,928 points to Spain's 5,214:
https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2021

Clear evidence that English clubs are now ahead of Spanish clubs, in European competition at least.

(Note, too, that German, Italian and French clubs are nowhere)


Edited by Territorial - 31 Oct 2020 at 4:20pm
Back to Top
coyne View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Location: Sunderland
Status: Offline
Points: 15881
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 4:14pm
Your link works as well as your argument, it doesn't work.
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Your link works as well as your argument, it doesn't work.
The (two) links now work.

The argument always did.
Back to Top
coyne View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Location: Sunderland
Status: Offline
Points: 15881
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 4:23pm
Your links still don't work. And your argument definitely doesn't.

What the link is unintentionally showing, is Spain #1 on the coefficients. Which is proving my point.

Having a mare aint ya.


Edited by coyne - 31 Oct 2020 at 4:25pm
Back to Top
horsebox View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Born n bred in darndale.

Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 34860
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 4:53pm
England are ahead of Spain based on 2020 coefficients.

Spain are ahead based on the last 5 years.

England had better coefficients points in 3 of the last 5 years.

It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Your links still don't work. And your argument definitely doesn't.
Look again.

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

What the link is unintentionally showing, is Spain #1 on the coefficients. Which is proving my point.
What the links show is that both this season so far, and the previous three full seasons, English clubs have gained more co-efficient points than Spanish ones, all competitions, all games, meaning the tide has turned.

Or "Fachts" - as a certain Fat Spaniard would say...
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

England are ahead of Spain based on 2020 coefficients.

Spain are ahead based on the last 5 years.

England had better coefficients points in 3 of the last 5 years.

Or another way of looking at it is that from the start of the 2017/18 season to date, English clubs have gained 67,212 co-efficient points to date, with Spanish clubs gaining 63,427.

Which is strong evidence for my contention that while La Liga was "top dog" until a few seasons ago, that is no longer the case.

And I would go further and predict that with this present financial crisis hitting the game everywhere, PL clubs will come out of it with the least damage, giving them an opportunity to pull further away.
Back to Top
Gary McKay View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

Yo Adrian

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 13816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2020 at 5:23pm
Re the 70s;

English clubs could include players from Scot/Wales/Ireland as “home” players when other countries couldnt. 

Italy had a ban on foreign players til 1980, Liam Brady being the first one signed I believe.

Spain limited to 2 foreigners I think.

When UEFA adopted the 2/3 foreigner rule (including the forementioned “home” players United struggled and got hammered 4-0 by Barca with I think Schmichel and Cantona not chosen.
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
Back to Top
BrendanD88 View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

99% of my posts are emojis

Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Location: Co Down
Status: Offline
Points: 10009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2020 at 11:24pm
4 German sides and 4 Spanish sides through to the last 16.

Back to Top
BrendanD88 View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

99% of my posts are emojis

Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Location: Co Down
Status: Offline
Points: 10009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2020 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Best league in the world comfortably at the minute the EPL

Na.
Back to Top
Roberto Baggio View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
UNBELIEVABLE JEFF

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 37333
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2020 at 12:45am
Great to see that it was United to f**k it up for the English sides 


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4243444546 54>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.