The main point of the article is that despite all the glamour and hype the EPL its is on the decline e.g. the poor showing of English clubs in this seasons CL and ultimately it could end up like the current state of Serie A.

He sites the German model as the way forward saying that Bayern Munich would walk the EPL.

 

I tend to agree with him your views on it?

http://www.ybig.ie/forum/the-standard-of-the-english-premier-league_topic26259_post540992.html?KW=#540992" rel="nofollow - http://www.ybig.ie/forum/the-standard-of-the-english-premier-league_topic26259_post540992.html?KW=#540992

When John Terry is still the leagues best centre half, it says it all about the standard of defences in the league. 

No thanks.

Serie A in my opinion peaked in the 90's where it was frequently broadcasted in the UK, Channel 4 had a slot every Sunday where they'd show the best bits of every game, I grew up watching that - Was a quality program  

That being said if English clubs perform as badly in Europe next season, England could actually lose their 4 teams in the Champions League Spot, the ironic thing is it would be Serie A who could overtake them in the UEFA Co-efficients and there would only be 3 English teams in the 17/18 season.

 

JT wasn't the best cente half in the EPL yesterday against Hull!

 

It would be good to see a link to the original article by Eamonn Sweeney as he makes some very good points in his piece.

 

Good man yourself.

 

 

Headline of the article somewhat misleading but what do you think of the piece as a whole?

 

Although the Italian fall was for its own specific reasons, it was fast and brutal. There is no reason to think it couldn't happen in England.

could perhaps make a case for degea or courtois

 

Do people think that the EPL will lose a CL place in the coming years? Italy gaining fast on them and they are losing a big score next year.

Chelsea won it only 2 seasons ago.. 

But you have to consider the fact the EPL plays 38 games a season without any winter breaks at all. Which is why squad depth the most important thing, look at every single team with small squads fall from grace after entering the Europa League.

 

True, but you could say the same about taking Real and Barca out of La Liga. Take the top two out of any major league in the world and it is likely to be a shadow of itself.

 

There is no doubt the EPL is in decline however and indeed has been in decline for some years. Not having an English side in the Q/Fs of the Champs League might have brought it into the spotlight a bit more, but the decline in the overall standard in the league has been really noticable over the last few years imo.

 

2013/2014 and 2011/12 both had exciting finishes but apart from that will be far from memorable. 2012/2013 was just dire from start to finish really. This season has been a bit like 2012/2013 with Chelsea cantering home to the league whilst everyone else falls asleep during half the matches.

 

It was far from a classic El Classico last night but overall La Liga is streets ahead of the EPL in both the standard of the average player plying their trade there and also for the quality of the top three sides.

Forgot all about that 

Even still there have been plenty of examples of second-tier EPL clubs being easily beaten by second tier teams from the likes of Italy, Spain, Germany or weaker leagues even in the competition. 

And since then Dynamo Kiev have beaten Man City & Everton, Braga beat Liverpool, Athletic Bilbao beat Man United, Fiorentina beat Tottenham, Sporting Lisbon beat City, Basel beat Spurs and Benfica have beaten Spurs, all in knockout rounds before the semi finals. 

 

Not forgetting there are several Italian teams still in european competitions this season.

 

An EPL collapse similiar to Italy is unlikely - the EPL has a captive TV audience globally as well as larger international fan bases. As long as people continue to subscribe to Sky the EPL is good for a long time to come.

 

The quality of some of the games is terribly poor, but the packaging and presentation dupes the uneducated fan. Sky will declare a 2-2 draw a great advertisement for the games even if all 4 goals come from horrendously poor defending.

Well obviously as they are English, they're going to prefer watching the EPL above any other league. 

 

Or the most entertaining and then have a moan that there are only 3 decent teams in Spain/Germany etc. -

 

One pundit recently said before the last 16 CL games that the EPL is far superior to L1 and yet Chelsea/Arsenal are knocked out by French teams never mind the top EPL team were played off the pitch home and away.

 

You make some excellent points there.

If Arsenal are in "complete disarray", well, all I can say is that the vast majority of clubs would love to be in that sort of disarray. Arsenal is as well run a club as there is.

The main reason Clubs like these are now successful is because they've not bothered with foreign investment and are ran by proper football people. The former club mentioned has a foreign billionaire but look at the players who came out of their academy over the past decade(!) and not just splashed the cash like crazed maniacs which some Clubs opted to

 

Pay for view TV is where the big money is. Could be wrong but dont think it was Pay for view in Italy in 80's and 90's. It was also pre Bosman, hence clubs had more control over players and could control wage demands. There was also the 2/3 foreign player rule which meant top Italian clubs could control wages for home players.

 

Sky are prepared to pay £10m per match is indicitive of the power and global gravitas of the EPL.

Are you saying Arsenal is not a well run club?

 

Accept that Milan were huge and paid massive wages but it would be naive to think this was all about football and not about Berlusconis strife for economic and political domination of Italy.

Its more that players come to these clubs and paid a fortune to sit on the bench i.e. Falco whilst young english players miss out.

The Premier League was sold to the lower clubs on the basis that it would be of benefit to the English national team and that the standard of english football would improve. It hasn't and if anything the English talent has decreased. yes Harry Kane has emerged but every so often a great hope of english football appears, the new English 'messi', and usually he fizzles out.

How many english players would actually be chased after by the big european clubs? not that many from that current crop. The current england U21 panel that placed recent friendlies contains next to no players who are either in the EPL or playing for their EPL club. There in is the problem.

The league polluted with mercenaries who want to come in make a fortune and not give a toss about the club or the fans.

English football made a deliberate decision to stamp out hooliganism, to attract the middle and upper classes and to "monetise" itself. Other countries didn't want to or weren't able to do that to the same extent. London being the global financial centre made England but particularly London attractive for the likes of Abramovich and other foreign investors. Chelsea has benefitted enormously in the modern era purely because its prestigious location made it an extremely attractive investment. 

Spanish football has been successful at marketing itself in Latin America due to the cultural similarities but also has two massive global brands in the Madrid Falange and Barcelona which has helped to do this. This emergence of Madrid v Barcelona as the biggest club game in the world is a huge marketing plus for La Liga.

However what La Liga also shows is that having a league full of imports which is a global brand does not have to damage the national team of that country. In Spain's case it has benefitted it.

The simultaneous success of La Liga and the Spanish national team also shows that the argument that the Premier League has damaged the English national team is not necessarily correct, or that the two do not have to work in opposition to each other. It's the approach to underage grass roots football in England that has held English football back and this really doesn't have much to do with the Premier League.

Italy has fallen back because:

i) It didn't stamp out hooliganism which instead became an increasing problem in the game there thus pushing crowds down in the same way English football saw attendances drop in the 70s and 80s.

ii) It's not a major player in terms of international media - Italian is not spoken outside Italy, unlike English and Spanish which are widely spoken outside those countries.

iii) Economic and political stagnation in wider Italian society hasn't helped - Italy is seen as extremely corrupt internationally.

iv) It didn't aggressively market itself globally in the way English football did and thus wasn't able to monetise itself. This is a function of the above three. 

 

1: Language has nothing to do with why Kim in Korea became a die hard (insert English club of the week here) fan. Access, hype and marketing did. And there is no reason that can't be replicated in France, Spain or Germany.

 

2: Kim in Korea doesn't know or care what is going on on the Kings Road before a Chelsea game. Hooliganism being stamped out (or just not reported) in England has little to do with it - there aren't exactly mass riots on the terrace in Spain, France, Germany or even Italy.

 

How long will Kim keep following his English team if the quality declines and his local TV station decides the Bundesliga live game presents better value for money?

 

Remember Leeds played Shels to a packed out Tolka Park years ago.

 

Striking parallels with both clubs.

1. The access, hype and marketing which has enticed Kim in Pusan to fanatically sit in front of his TV with his can of Coke and his barbecued dog legs every week is a function of the global hegemony of the English language. English is the language that Asians want to learn, the UK and US are the places that Asians emigrate to. They don't care about speaking French, Spanish or German. English speaking culture has huge cachet in Asia and English football benefits hugely off the back of that.

2. Hooliganism being stamped out has a huge amount to do with it. It made the game attractive to the middle class and thus brought the money in. Kim in Pusan might not care what's going on on the King's Road before a Chelsea match but Roman Abramovich does and the type of soulless corporate suits that Chelsea have targetted sure do. Chelsea's success has come from this targetting of the middle class and attraction of investment. Kim only follows Chelsea because they're successful and have marketed themselves aggressively. If there were still racist skinheads rampaging around the Shed Chelsea wouldn't have Abramovich's money and Kim wouldn't know who they were.

Italy does have hooligan problems and racism, they have failed to tackle those problems and it's clearly one of the major reasons why Serie A has seen its crowds dwindle, because grounds there are seen as threatening places. Juventus are the only club there that have followed the English model and they are reaping the benefits.

 

2: I take your point re the demographics of the English game, but thats not how you positioned it. Again, France, Spain and Germany don't have a hoolie problem so therefore presumably they can also reap these benefits?

 

The reason the English game is currently the most global sport can be summed up in three letters. S, K and Y. They have a vested interest in the game and that is why I think in the medium term English football will still be the product most consumed. But the risk is that if standards continue to fall in the way they have that the days of a £10m valuation on Wigan v Stoke  will end and deflate the game. And that will cause a vicious circle and there is a tipping point where interest wanes.

1. The coverage English football gets in Korea is a function of the global hegemony of English-speaking culture. The fact that Kim may not speak English himself is irrelevant. US TV shows and movies are in English too and Kim and his family will probably watch those too through subtitles or dubbing.

2. Nobody said the decline in hooliganism was the only reason for English football's global media rise. It's one of a number of contributory factors. But if hooliganism was to return tomorrow to 1980s levels it would clearly make the "product" less attractive to investors.

Sky is the obvious example of the "monetisation" of English football that I mentioned earlier. Obviously it's a massive driver. But it's all tied in. The changing demographics making the game more attractive to TV companies, advertisers and the corporate sector. Exploit the strengths of your brand to the full, market the sh*t out of it and follow the money. At an individual club level, Manchester United have done it far more effectively than Liverpool. Hence the latter's rise and the former's decline over the last two decades. Manchester United v Liiverpool is like a microcosm of the Premier League v Serie A. 

 

While it's been fairly easy these past few weeks to compare the genius of Messi and Barcelona generally with the lumpen football being played by the best Premier League teams, it's wrong to assume that we're in a long-term pattern.

The strength of sterling means that this summer when the likes of Paul Pogba are weighing up the euros of PSG versus the Queen's shilling of Manchester United or City they're seeing a transformative impact on their bottom line.

There's a sluice of cash to come from the new television rights and allied to the strong pound this summer will be a bonanza for agents and players.

It means that the well meaning and earnest discussions of what's wrong with English football - particularly when it comes to the Champions League - are pointless.

English clubs should be able to buy that top tier of players who have gone elsewhere in recent seasons. The balance of power, as cyclical as it is, will swing back relatively soon.

This assumes intelligent design in the transfer market. Spurs, Liverpool, City, Manchester United and Chelsea have all had purchase anxiety while apparently sure-thing guaranteed gold-plated players chose to go to Madrid or PSG or Bayern.

That's the great intangible in predicting that things will be better but the days when United could just buy (or even rent) a Tevez to add to Rooney and Ronaldo may be about to return.

Not even the Premier League can screw that up, right?

Irish Independent

Ger Gilroy.

Another bad night for English clubs with Arsenal and Chelsea losing.

Be some craic if City and United lost tomorrow  Lucky for Chelsea they are in a group that they can't possibly fail to get out of I would have thought. As for the other 3 PL sides in the CL, interesting times ahead!

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34396301&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0CBcQqQIwAGoVChMI7L3q1bWfyAIVQ4I-Ch0epABl&usg=AFQjCNG89b82HZKWQ0sB6gZhavAYcJAziQ" rel="nofollow - Champions League: Why are English teams struggling?

With so many teams other than Leicester (at the moment) shooting themselves in the foot at the top of the table  so often in such a bizarre season  is this a sign of the decline in the EPL?

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35021767&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjJ8tWkkc3JAhXDHA8KHQ25CfMQqQIIFzAA&usg=AFQjCNGJ5pln4jHI9Vm6gMZZ1SrQMZyWyw" rel="nofollow - Premier League: The most unpredictable season?

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2015/12/competitive-balance-football&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjJ0pSLiu7JAhVBiRoKHcQFCmIQqQIIMzAK&usg=AFQjCNHxVnac-3TDW5evTkxV2AvhpvNZLg" rel="nofollow - Why the English Premier League has been turned upside down

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/12180296/Top-Premier-League-clubs-meet-to-discuss-breakaway-super-league.html&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwim1tWmrKbLAhUiS5oKHbAyBL8QqQIIFzAA&usg=AFQjCNErYItOcvW17ugGJA_NdE8YACdXYQ" rel="nofollow - Uefa vows to fight any attempt to launch European Super League by Premier League elite

 

 

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/05/laurent-blanc-questions-quality-of-premier-league-after-samir-na/&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiVxbq-4fvLAhXInBoKHVRjB2sQqQIIFzAA&usg=AFQjCNG8tlrhlwyhl0q_kjROibfYubPECQ" rel="nofollow - Laurent Blanc questions quality of Premier League after Samir Nasri criticism

City finished the job when many didn't give them a chance even after a 2-2 away from home.

 

Liverpool beat the second best team in Germany, a league that is constantly compared to the EPL, and favourites for the tournament.

 

Credit where its due. There'd be some activity on here if both teams had gone out and the EPL was left with no teams in the European semi finals

 

I was expecting Dortmund to be too good for Liverpool. Over the 180 minutes Liverpool were the better team for long periods and created as many if not more chances

 

 

 

Ya the British fans are always using this argument. Deluded doesn't begin to describe their view of EPL. It has to be most exciting/most competitive/most even don't know why they can't just chill and enjoy what they have.

+1

 

 

Proved again this season.

Not so sure, I think the new  money is why it has declined so much. 

The amount of money sides have should be an advantage if used wisely, how much of an advantage over other European sides could be debated though. What I would say though is the bigger clubs have made huge strides in terms of putting quality managers in place. Massive appointments and I could see drastic improvements in European performances over 2/3 years for English sides if most of those appointments are left to do their work for a long period of time. The background setups of some of the clubs could still be questioned at some of them though, as in most don't seem to have Director of football or something similar in place. So there's definitely issues still there holding some clubs back I would say.

I don't believe a word of it . This league will be awash with cash this year and for many  years after. The best players and managers in the world  will flow into it ....so the league will improve ...the standing of England players in their own league won't however . Their national team ( and ours will )regress even more 

This  

In the EURO's they have only made the semi finals in 1996 when playing at home.

They haven't won a knock out match since then.

In the World cup they have only won 2 knock out matches since 1990 (Denmark 2002, Ecuador 2006)

They will always qualify for the major tournaments as they are good at beating the weaker teams home and away but will struggle with the big boys. 

Look at their performance in Europe compared to Germany or Spain, miles of the pace yet Bayern Munich receive similar TV money to that of Aston Villa. I believe the TV deal has doubled this year which will be an added bonus. 

Just look back over the last 5/6 years of Champions League and Europa League winners, finalists, semi finalists.

Could hardly see Leicester winning La Liga FFS.