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The Decline of the EPL
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

How do people feel the current Liverpool team compares to the unbeaten Arsenal one?

A "mere" 90 points, incl 12 draws and an 11 point margin over the runners-up, would suggest that the Arse were still a notch behind this present LFC. Also 1.95 goals per game scored and 0.68 goals per game conceded - LFC are presently on 2.36 scored and 0.64 conceded.

Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

I suppose different eras so difficult to compare.
V.true, though assuming LFC maintain their form to the end of the season, you could say they dominated their rivals to a greater degree this season than AFC did theirs.

Or put it another way, people sometime get misled by the "Invincible" acclaim. For if AFC had lost one of those draws by a goal, but won another by the same margin, they'd actually have gained 91 points. But without the unbeaten tag, I doubt we'd have rated them that much better than eg some of Ferguson's MU title winners.

The fact that they lost in the semi-finals of the FA Cup (to Man U) and the semi's of the League Cup (to Boro), while going out of the CL in the Quarters (to Chelsea) doesn't quite compare imo with eg MU's 'Incredible Treble', even if the PL was very tight that year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_Arsenal_F.C._season


Edited by Territorial - 20 Jan 2020 at 4:11pm
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If VAR was around in 2004, they'd have lost at Portsmouth. Dodgy penalty for a Pires dive IIRC.

Chelsea were better in 04/05 than Arsenal were the year before. The current Liverpool team are better than both.
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That Arsenal side drew 12 games in the PL that season. So far Liverpool have only drawn once!
 
There's a fair bit to go but at the moment I would say the current Liverpool side are considerably better.
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

It has certainly been one of the poorest seasons quality wise in recent memory, the standard of any would-be challengers has been exceptionally low.
If that is correct, then you would expect the "exception" to revert to the mean, in the same way as eg Leicester's title-winning season was unable to be repeated.

In other words, it may be that it's as much LFC's season which has been "exceptional" as the others.

More generally, we'll maybe know better whether you're correct about the overall quality by how PL clubs do in Europe.

So far, they're doing well.

I think both are true - Liverpool are having an exceptional season, and would do so regardless of what the challengers are like - but the traditional challengers with the most money and best squads on paper are doing very poorly. Chelsea, United, Arsenal and Tottenham are exceptionally poor (obviously Chelsea are, relatively, doing reasonably well, but compare them to say their 2016-17 incarnation). Manchester City, through 23 games, have already dropped 7 more points than they did in the whole of last season, so it can be said that they're not the strongest version of themselves either.

Liverpool can only beat what is in front of them though, and its not on them to ensure the rest of the league is up to scratch. 
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Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

one horse race uncompetitive league, even the SPL is more competitive which says something

If Liverpool were in the SPL, La Liga, Serie A, Budesliga or the AUL, they would most likely be unbeaten in their domestic league at this stage. That's where they are now. It's funny that people talk about the strength of the league to downplay a team that are not far off going down as one of the all time great club sides.


Well Napoli beat them at home and drew in Anfield in the champions league games

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Laporte back for Man City this week - if he had been there all season, I think it would be a closer league, the amount of f**k ups at the back has been ridiculous. 
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So the league is a one horse race this year, but last season it was one of the closest in living memory.
Does that mean it was a brilliant league last season but the standard has declined this?
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Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

one horse race uncompetitive league, even the SPL is more competitive which says something

If Liverpool were in the SPL, La Liga, Serie A, Budesliga or the AUL, they would most likely be unbeaten in their domestic league at this stage. That's where they are now. It's funny that people talk about the strength of the league to downplay a team that are not far off going down as one of the all time great club sides.


Well Napoli beat them at home and drew in Anfield in the champions league games
 

You are correct. Napoli are a better side than Liverpool. Just like when Ireland became unofficial World champions when beating Czech Republic 15 years ago or so.
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

So the league is a one horse race this year, but last season it was one of the closest in living memory.
Does that mean it was a brilliant league last season but the standard has declined this?

No, it was poor last season, with it being commented on that the fact that the top 2 amassed such a massive points haul said a lot about the quality of the rest of the league. This year, the difference is only one team has done that.
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And one of those teams went into the CL.
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Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

one horse race uncompetitive league, even the SPL is more competitive which says something

If Liverpool were in the SPL, La Liga, Serie A, Budesliga or the AUL, they would most likely be unbeaten in their domestic league at this stage. That's where they are now. It's funny that people talk about the strength of the league to downplay a team that are not far off going down as one of the all time great club sides.


Well Napoli beat them at home and drew in Anfield in the champions league games
 

You are correct. Napoli are a better side than Liverpool. Just like when Ireland became unofficial World champions when beating Czech Republic 15 years ago or so.


Bizarre reference.
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

And one of those teams went into the CL.
After a final against one of the other PL "also-rans", who incidentally knocked M.City out in the Quarters.

Meanwhile, two other complete duds from the PL contested the final of the Europa Lge.

It's no wonder the rest of Europe is sh*tting itself for fear that after years of having more money than everyone else, the PL clubs have finally got organised enough to start using it properly:
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Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Well Napoli beat them at home and drew in Anfield in the champions league games...

... whilst still finishing behind LFC in the Group.

It will be interesting to see how the two do in the Rpund of 16.
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Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

one horse race uncompetitive league, even the SPL is more competitive which says something

If Liverpool were in the SPL, La Liga, Serie A, Budesliga or the AUL, they would most likely be unbeaten in their domestic league at this stage. That's where they are now. It's funny that people talk about the strength of the league to downplay a team that are not far off going down as one of the all time great club sides.


Well Napoli beat them at home and drew in Anfield in the champions league games
 

You are correct. Napoli are a better side than Liverpool. Just like when Ireland became unofficial World champions when beating Czech Republic 15 years ago or so.


Bizarre reference.

Nothing bizarre about it whatsoever. It would be like saying that the United team in 2008 that won a PL and CL double, and who many recognise as one of the better English club sides of all time, well Man City were better than them that season as they beat them in the PL twice. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Well Napoli beat them at home and drew in Anfield in the champions league games...

... whilst still finishing behind LFC in the Group.

It will be interesting to see how the two do in the Rpund of 16.

Napoli also beat Liverpool 1-0 last season and lost the return game 1-0. So in 2018/19 they were as good a side as Liverpool, besides the fact that Liverpool qualified from that CL group knocking Napoli out and win the CL afterwards. They were as good as each other though, that's proven.
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Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Well Napoli beat them at home and drew in Anfield in the champions league games...

... whilst still finishing behind LFC in the Group.

It will be interesting to see how the two do in the Rpund of 16.

Napoli also beat Liverpool 1-0 last season and lost the return game 1-0. So in 2018/19 they were as good a side as Liverpool, besides the fact that Liverpool qualified from that CL group knocking Napoli out and win the CL afterwards. They were as good as each other though, that's proven.

I can only comment on what you said, which was that if Liverpool were in serie a they would most likely be unbeaten, I’m simply pointing out that in their 2 games against serie a opposition this season, that they have been beaten in one and drew in the other.

Of course I don’t expect you to grasp that

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Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Well Napoli beat them at home and drew in Anfield in the champions league games...

... whilst still finishing behind LFC in the Group.

It will be interesting to see how the two do in the Rpund of 16.

Napoli also beat Liverpool 1-0 last season and lost the return game 1-0. So in 2018/19 they were as good a side as Liverpool, besides the fact that Liverpool qualified from that CL group knocking Napoli out and win the CL afterwards. They were as good as each other though, that's proven.

Actually I've just taken a look-see at Serie A. Napoli are currently:
Posn. 11th   Pl. 20 W6 D6 L8   GF 28 GA 28   Pts.24
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/italian-serie-a/table

This after losing 4 of their last 5 Serie A games, leaving them ahead of 3 other teams only on GD, 27 points off Juve at the top and a mere 9 points above the relegation zone.

If Barca hit form in the CL, they could annihilate them.
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@ shoco so if Liverpool were in Serie A this season, they wouldn't be unbeaten or top in a commanding position? Is Serie A or any of the other leagues better than the PL?

Btw, this started from you downplaying Liverpools unbeaten run as they are in a '1 team league. Even the SPL is more competitive which says something'. Absolute nonsense and everyone grasps clearly what you are at. It's the poorest of attempts. 


Edited by Hans Moleman - 20 Jan 2020 at 6:39pm
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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