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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Having found a clip of the speech I took it as meaning racist businesses and those complicit in racism.
Regardless, even if he didn't, I still don't think a black person saying to support black businesses is racist. To think is so is deliberately misunderstand systemic racial oppression and the very point of these protests. That doesn't mean I agree with him here and, given that he is giving actual racists the opportunity to deflect from the crux of the matter, I don't think it is very beneficial, but it certainly isn't racist.
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37333 |
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But a white person at a KKK rally for talks sake would undoubtedly be racist? (I know you told me this comparison was not allowed for some reason but it has to be said) So if you are from the oppressed side you cannot be racist for saying the exact same thing that would be racist if it came from the oppressor?
Edited by Roberto Baggio - 07 Jun 2020 at 9:14pm |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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There's a reason why black people saying "I'm proud to be black" or gay people saying "I'm proud to be gay" or women saying "I'm proud to be a woman" or Travellers saying "I'm proud to be a Traveller" is a declaration of defiant freedom. And why white people saying "I'm proud to be white" isn't. I think it may have something to do with millennia of white, straight, male hegemony. Edited by sid waddell - 07 Jun 2020 at 9:18pm |
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37333 |
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what about if you say you’re proud to be straight?
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Black people have never systemically oppressed white people based on the colour of their skin, whereas white people have. So trying to compare the two is a false equivalence. It is like when people discuss 'straight pride' when 'gay pride' is on, when straight people have never been arrested or beaten up for their sexual orientation. It's the same sort of thought process. I don't believe reverse racism is a genuine thing. In fairness, if you find yourself at a Klan rally, unless you are there to batter them, or are doing some sort of exposé, it is pretty safe to assume that you're a racist!
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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People can draw their own conclusions about what you'd be. None of them good. Different statements have different meanings depending on context. Ascertianing context takes aa rudimentaary knowledge of history, and using one's brain. Unfortunately that seems beyond a lot of people on the internet these days.
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37333 |
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Inconsistent but I see your viewpoint now
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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It does exist, but there are very, very few places where white people are a threatened minority. Does it exist in, say, the US or Britain? I dare say it does, but its effect on society is infinitesmal in comparison to white racism. Do I condone it? No. Do I think it's more understandable and is based far more in real lived experience than white racism? Hell, yes. |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Yeah, you are correct that it probably does exist. But it is harder to find and, as you say, more understandable.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10653 |
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Although harder to find, I think a strong example of "reverse racism" (I dislike the term immensely), is the current attitudes towards England which is prevalent on the Internet. The term "Tan" is regularly used, and would tick all the boxes for "reverse-racism". Anglophobia is pretty strong on the internet, and it is often laced in comments that about any other nation would just be bog-standard racism. I suspect this might be a controversial viewpoint, especially on here, but I think its a valid example.
Edited by Het-field - 08 Jun 2020 at 9:54am |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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I would consider it just racism though, especially when it is merely about where people are from than what they have done or are doing. Hating a British soldier in Belfast might be reverse racism, but complaining about 'Tan' tourists in West Cork or Kerry is just racist really.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10653 |
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I think it was out of Clonakilty that Ireland's first modern "Immigration Control" movement was established, and it had its roots in people holidaying in the area. As somebody who used holiday in the area in the 1990s, I often remember all sorts of criticism being thrown at the tourists who came in for a few weeks a year. Because it was something normal to hear, you never thought that it was invective, just an observation. But in truth it had a very sinister and isolationist undertone to it.
Edited by Het-field - 08 Jun 2020 at 1:11pm |
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Flanno7hi
Liam Brady Joined: 26 Jul 2010 Location: Chester Status: Offline Points: 2618 |
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Unsurprisingly a lot of people here didn't realise they have statues dotted about the place of slavers and people who committed atrocities. Wait until the find out about all those Cromwell streets and statues of the ****. |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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As you may know, that's my hometown. Yes, I had many a run-in with the vile, and genuinely very smelly, Áine Ní Chonaill, who seemed to take issue with a local hostel owner making his premises available to those seeking asylum. Two people I became friends with worked there and there were genuine flashpoints with people who had fled here in fear, who were then subjected to the most awful racist abuse with many myths being repeated that had very little basis in truth, certainly regarding their benefits.Those lads had a couple of scuffles just for trying to work there and one was certainly vilified for being Welsh himself. There may well have been comments and criticism of tourists, in fact I can assure you that there was, but that isn't where the Immigration Control Platform originated from, although 'Midge', as she was known to students of the local Convent School, was certainly someone who believed in Irish isolationism. She created the movement to try and stop asylum seekers coming to Ireland and Clonakilty in particular. She never got more than a scattering of votes when she stood in elections, thankfully, but she did gain the traction of the media. IIRC she was on The Late Late Show and other prominent national debates.
Edited by pre Madonna - 08 Jun 2020 at 1:36pm |
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10653 |
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I always felt that her media traction was simply a product of there being no alternative voice in that space, particularly at the time the ICP were being raised. The main parties had the ability to satisfy the immigration control needs of most voters, who at the time saw it as a peripheral issue, particularly around the time the organisation was set up, and when it came to voting, there were many other issues, of superior relevance.
Today, they have been outflanked by anti-immigration parties, and individuals, who actually have a much wider agenda that what the ICP put forward, and as such, they are left totally by the wayside.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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I always felt it was because she was a far-right oddity and the media are often intrigued by these people as they are good for ratings.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10653 |
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In those days that sort of thing didn't interest people in the way it did today. She also wasn't particularly charismatic, and was fairly "matter of fact" (for want of a better word). And on the whole, the media gave her little or no platform after the ICP launched, and she generally seemed to have to resort to sending "Letters to the Editor" to get her point out there.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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It most certainly did and always has, which was the only reason she got the platform. I think she was seen a sort of eccentric curiosity, until they realised the only interesting thing about her was a lack of personal hygiene.
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