UK Politics Thread

You've done a stirling job at trying to defend the indefensible and try and put a positive spin on events, but the fact is that the SNP voted with Thatcher (they didn't even abstain!) forcing an immediate dissolution of parliament and making the Milk Snatcher's ascension to office all but inevitable, and were consequently, and quite rightly, despised for decades.

This should prove enlightening and balanced reading. Critical and supportive of both sides of the  argument and shows it is not as simple as you are making it out to be.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/03/did-snp-bring-really-down-callaghan-government-and-pave-way-thatcherism

Your also again ignoring that the law demanded that an election had to be held by October that year anyway. The result would have been the same. 

Actually, Roy Hattersley blames Gerry Fitt and to a lesser extent Frank Maguire (though he understands Maguire's reasons why) for the downfall of his government rather than SNP or the Liberals. 

The Tories didn't need to repeal the Scotland Act as it was not yet law, unlike you are claiming it was, if it had been law that would mean that Scottish devolution had been implemented which of course thanks to the thirty four idiots it wasn't.

The 40% fix (and that's what it was, a fix) by those cretins who wanted to stop devolution was a disgraceful act and we were just supposed to forgive and forget all about it were we ? Just take it and shut up like good wee lads and lassies ? 

Had Mr Callaghan, who was one of the more likeable Prime Ministers of the 20th Century, been a stronger leader and went ahead with Scottish devolution anyway as he should have, for the Scottish people had voted in favour of it, then we would gladly have helped his government limp along for the final few months it could legally exist for.

Here's a passage that may interest you from Mr Callaghan's own memoirs regarding the 40% fix and the consequences. 

His words, not mine !

And by the way, most of the seats we lost in 1979 were only lost by a few hundred votes. 

A curious incident happened at the 1979 general election in Scotland. In the North East of Scotland, RAF and RN personal usually domiciled in England strangely did not get their usual postal votes for their home constituencies in England. For this one occasion they had to vote in the Scottish constituencies in which they were based. They mostly voted Tory.

I remain deeply proud of everything my party has achieved since our birth in 1934, often against incredible odds and fierce opposition.

Go on, should I drop my support for Scottish independence and vote for good ole' "Scottish" Labour ? This should be good.  The "Corbyn Revolution (Scotland)" we were promised would happen hasn't taken off at all.

I remember saying it at the time, but anytime he spoke on the matter made complete sense to me and he was probably the only one to do so! I would also have agreed with him on every single one of those past positions, whilst also agreeing that Britain was better off in. I thought he was being blamed unfairly at the time and still do. 

In fact, I just reread his speech from April before the referendum and I just don’t get the criticism! I couldn’t agree more with it, three years on! The reality is that this was a protest vote and continues to be seen as such. People don’t care about reform of the EU, in many cases they don’t even care if it is costing them job security! 

This was the first time many people even voted and the first time many others had a vote that was worth anything. I am in favour of the people having another vote, but I think we might be disappointed with the result again. That wouldn’t be down to Corbyn, or because of Farage, but because a lot of people are angry that the first time their vote mattered it has been made feel redundant. That may seem silly to many of us, but telling them that is only emboldening them, in some cases it is even turning people. That was a result of Tory arrogance during the referendum and mismanagement now. I think Corbyn is being blamed for not being dishonest at the time. It would be very hard to take him seriously if he had gone from a critic of the EU to its champion. I still think he is being blamed here for the dishonesty of others, which I find ridiculous. 

This is part of the culture that has come out of Brexit, on both sides, that someone  has to be blamed for it. I find that in itself to be part of the problem and why I wouldn’t be confident if there was to be another vote on the issue.

PS You are up very late these days, I hope you’re not suffering with insomnia! 

This is his speech (below) from before the referendum, I’m really not sure what more people wanted! The media were going to blame him for something anyway. 

I would definitely disagree about Labour being able to canvass freely and safely, without even mentioning Jo Cox, that just isn't true. A Labour councillor was punched in the stomach in Norfolk last month, for example. I don't think any party can canvass as safely as before.

We will have to agree to disagree on the rest. If he put that Keir Starmer anywhere I think he may have lost my vote for good! I am also not sure he would have won over many of the Labour voters who voted leave. I think he may even have had a negative influence.

Anyway, I think we have to agree to disagree here. I can't shy away from the fact that he is being blamed for both sides of the argument dragging the debate completely off-topic and in to the realms off fantasy and bullsh*t. He shouldn't be blamed for that.

Bump.

The first post-EP YouGov poll is showing some result.

If there had been a GE in the last 2 weeks we would’ve had a Lib Dem/Brexit Party coalition.

The first ever poll to not feature either Tories or Labour in top 2 post-war

i should have said at least 20 years