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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Milne does need to be reigned in, he has been of no help to anybody here, himself most of all, but the attack was condemned by Corbyn. I'm not sure what condemning Putin or Russia will do when there isn't cast-iron proof.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10659 |
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Corbyn went further this afternoon in relation to the attack, and mentioned evidence pointing towards Russia. The scope for potential alternatives is becoming more and more limited as the day goes forward.
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colemanY2K
Roy Keane Fresh minty breath Joined: 01 Mar 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 14959 |
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An interesting take from a former British ambassador.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/the-novichok-story-is-indeed-another-iraqi-wmd-scam/amp/?__twitter_impression=true Not sure what to make of anything anymore. |
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"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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There's a thread on Twitter where yer man Craig Murray got absolutely destroyed. https://twitter.com/deadlyvices/status/974033609639321600 |
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10659 |
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Murray is not a chemist and a read of his precedence would suggest that he has form for throwing suggestions, notably about the Scottish Referendum and Hillary's email, which he has claimed had nothing to do with the Russians.
Edited by Het-field - 15 Mar 2018 at 6:38pm |
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colemanY2K
Roy Keane Fresh minty breath Joined: 01 Mar 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 14959 |
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Jaysus what a knob. That lad has serious anger management issues. OK, lets say the Russians made it which is extremely likely. What his thread doesn't prove is whether the Russian state deployed it. How do we know this wasn't stolen, sold or given to other actors by another means? Everything points to Russia but doubts remain. http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/unlikely-that-vladimir-putin-behind-skripal-poisoning-1.3425736 As I said above I don't know what to make of anything anymore. |
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"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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What I find interesting in reading the INTERNET is that there's a very strong crossover between the type of people who are fanatically anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim and people who admire Putin and Russia. Certainly Putin is a big hero of the alt-right.
I think they see Russia as the sort of deeply conservative, white, racist, anti-gay, authoritarian state which they imagine during their wet dreams. Of course they wouldn't last a wet day there if they actually had to live there. Of course the standard response of the reactionary right to any sort of possible Islamist terror incident is to point the blame at Muslims in general as soon as they hear about it, and generally without any evidence too. That's followed up with broad brush vilification of the "left" and "liberals". The reactionary right appear to have a much different standard of proof for Russian spy attacks - and I'm not saying proof is a bad thing, quite the opposite - I'm pointing out the hilarious double standard the reactionary right have compared to their automatic reflex broad brush vilification of Muslims any time there's any sort of attack in the west. For them, one sort of attack requires no proof at all to decide who to blame. For the other, there is never any proof of who is to blame that will be acceptable. Edited by sid waddell - 15 Mar 2018 at 6:50pm |
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10659 |
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Its an interesting manifestation of the horse shoe theory. A similar read of further left sources will see wide ranging attempts to muddy the water as to culpability in this situation. Any small anomaly has been jumped on, the victim has been insulted, and the British state has been the subject of huge whataboutery. I suspect the reactionary right see Putin as the type of leader they would like, while elements of the far left demonstrate that old alliances and friendships die hard, in spite of contemporary Russia being nothing like the state they would wish to have. |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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What a successful demagogue does is to tell the most obvious lies imaginable and say it's the truth. If you can tell the biggest lies and get away with it, you can lie about anything. Then, at least for enough people whose support is needed to sustain that demagogue, people stop believing in truth as a concept, and for them, truth ceases to mean anything. That's what Trump does and that's what Putin does. After World War II, it was believed that never again could a demagogue fool so many people in the way Hitler had done. That was a very mistaken belief, and now the INTERNET has made it easier than ever before to fool people.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Oh yeah, for definite there's an element of left-wing thought that sees Putin as a grand fella too, I wouldn't deny that. Whataboutery is a huge element of this.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10659 |
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I struggle to figure out why anybody (other than those who benefit from the status quo) could possibly have a positive view on the contemporary Russian state. Over the last ten years or so I have noticed an incremental creeping of favouritism from people who should under no circumstances have anything favourable to say about it. This incident has had a tinge of anti-Westernism and anti-government paranoia, which I had suspected was limited to a very specific set of events. |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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I would say the reactionary right admiration for Putin goes back to what I said earlier about them seeing him as a defender of whiteness and social conservatism. The Iraq War is probably the key factor in terms of left admiration for him. I think was Putin was correct on that and the neo-conservatives were insane, but in his case it proved to be a case of a stopped clock being right. Putin is as big an imperialist as anybody, as his actions since then show. Also, there is an apparently credible theory that shortly after becoming Prime Minister in 1999, he was behind the apartment bombings that gave Russia the excuse to wage a full scale war in Chechnya and establish him as a "strong leader" in waiting. I can't claim to know whether that is actually true, but I sure wouldn't put it past him. |
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10659 |
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Russia is no bastion of diversity. Even if you were to break it down to the horrific behaviour of football fans. But the country has become a hotbed of social conservativism and restriction. There should only be a tiny number of people who are apologists for the regime, let alone actual supporters
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colemanY2K
Roy Keane Fresh minty breath Joined: 01 Mar 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 14959 |
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With regards the bombing I came across this fascinating US Senate Foreign Relations Committee (Democratic staff report) report a few weeks back. Appendix A details the bombing. https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FinalRR.pdf |
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"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Fooking hell.
That's one serious foot in mouth giveaway job by the Speaker of the Duma... Edited by sid waddell - 15 Mar 2018 at 11:43pm |
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colemanY2K
Roy Keane Fresh minty breath Joined: 01 Mar 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 14959 |
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Ya tis mad stuff. The whole report is engrossing.
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"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10659 |
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I see Yesterday the UK, France, USA and Germany issued a joint statement condemning an "assault on UK sovereignty". A very united front has been show in this situation, and with EU backing it has become a very united front.m
I also see Chris Williamson MP is retweeting Craig Murray. At times like these elements of the LP really can't help themselves. Edited by Het-field - 16 Mar 2018 at 10:42am |
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Newryrep
Paul McGrath Just can't get enough of lists Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15258 |
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while it is good to be sceptical at times I think on the balance of probability that it was Russia as they frankly don't give a monkeys about other peoples opinion and it was essentially a public warning to double agents or potential double agents that they don't ever forget
they could easily have got rid of him quietly
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'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941 |
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