Islamic State - Ruthless Beyond Belief |
Post Reply | Page <1 23456 28> |
Author | |
PanteirA
Jack Charlton Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Location: Ciarrai Status: Offline Points: 6744 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Superb post Madferret.
|
|
Madferret
Ray Houghton Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This lad is getting to be an expert at these interviews. Latest one from the BBC and if you have watched the others (CNN, ABC, RAI Italian) they all soon develop into a similar vein. He could put a tape recorder & cardboard cut-out wearing an Arsenal jersey in the chair at this stage and I doubt many of these dummies would know the difference. This is probably the worse interview so far where the reporter still hasn't realised the interviewee should do more talking than you.
Love or hate him, you have to say Assad is sharp as a tack, great sense of humour and love's the ladies. Be some craic down the pub watching Winning Streak. |
|
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Just watched that. He did well. Jeremy Bowen is no fool either and I thought his interview style was alright.
|
|
|
|
Madferret
Ray Houghton Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yeah, but if you've seen all the other Assad interviews, you'd think Bowen would changed tack and tackle him a different way. Instead Assad got to re-hash his by now standard lines.
I like Assad. I mean no doubt elements of his regime have been guilty of individual actions which could be classed as War crimes, but these almost pale into insignificance when you consider what ISIS, etc are up to. I think he is genuine & consistent in admitting that the Syrian Military have been responsible for isolated atrocities (which he claims have subsequently been punished) but that is not government policy. I wonder would he run in the new Tipperary 5 seater and get rid of Lowry?? Assad for Taoiseach
|
|
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I dunno. I imagine he would do anything to cling to power. He's an intelligent guy and dictators are rarely let retire to a pile in the countryside. They tend to end their reigns either through natural or unnatural death. A dictator will die one of three ways: in power, of old age; in power, but in a bunker by his own hand; or having just been deposed and then swung from the nearest chandelier or else taken out back and shot.
The Russians, and I mean Gorbachev, and Pinochet (who died under house arrest) are the only ones I can think of who are an exception to this. It tends not to end nicely, no matter what. I reckon Assad has done a lot more than he lets on in the interview. Chlorine in every house in the land? Please. Sure, you can make it with bleach and a few other chemicals, but the ability to make and deploy it on an industrial scale is a strength held by only one side of that conflict. |
|
|
|
Landon Donovan
Paul McGrath Sheldon Cooper Joined: 27 Aug 2010 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 15708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Somebody interviewing Assad will have their questions vetted and approved. Any deviation to the plans and it is game over, hand over the tapes and leave without fuss.
|
|
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Well, there is obviously the "stepping aside" and letting a successor rule approach (see Chile) but I mean after a transition to another form of rule, be in democracy or something else. Dictators don't tend to survive revolution and will tend to do anything to protect their regime.
|
|
|
|
Madferret
Ray Houghton Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Is Dictator a fair description tho I wonder Dave? I mean, I'm not trying to downplay some of the actions of of his or his father's government, but can we compare him to a Stalin, Hitler or Mary Harney?
That the upper echelons of Syrian military & political apparatus are dominated largely by Alawites there is no question but you are into arguements of representative democratic legitimacy imo, not questions of dictatorship.
No doubt there is a certain cult of personality around him too, but that is very much par for the course in that part of the World and almost expected, even by the local population. We do it here too, (Bertie, Charlie, etc) only it's a bit more subtle. He said something very interesting in another interview. He was questioned if the Syrian State, even with the limited reforms he has introduced, was truly democratic. His answer was he didn't claim it was and I think that's something people in the West find it hard to get their head around where our version of democracy is seen as the holy grail. |
|
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Well, do you think those opposed to him in Syria see him as a dictator? His dad was in power for 30 years and he has been there for 15. Benevolent or not, I reckon that's a dictatorship.
No mistake, if the war ends with him losing power, he won't be living a trouble free life for long. |
|
|
|
Madferret
Ray Houghton Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Can't agree with you on this Dave. The length of time he is in Power does not necessarily make him a Dictator. I would argue the actions of a leader would qualify them as a dictator, not their length of time in office.
Yes, to us with the model of society we have become accustomed, it does seem strange that someone would assume power in such a way and hold it for so long. But plenty of leaders in World History have been "democratically" elected and held power coercively for relatively short periods of history and still been guilty of terrible atrocities. I would focus more on how benign his actions as leader were rather than the length of time in office. Edit; I should have given at least one example of what I was referring to above in bold. Nixon was "democratically" elected (if you consider a two party state with whoever spends the most buying the election as democratic) and look at his record ; Napalm bombing of Cambodia which killed tens of thousands of civilians in the most horrific manner, the Madman theory, training & supply of weapons and finance to right-wing paramilitary groups so as to destabilise & overthrow democratic governments whose politics Washington didn't approve of such as in Chile, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador and Colombia, the support of companies like Chiquita (now combined with Fyffes) which effectively ran slave plantations in Central America and bribed local Officials, State espionage against Newspapers & opposition activists domestically (Watergate), the supply of weapons to foment proxy wars in Africa, the backing of corrupt regimes such as the Saudi's, I could go on all day.... Nixon was only in power 5 years Dave, Assad 15 years. But I know who I think acted more akin to a "Dictator".
Edited by Madferret - 10 Feb 2015 at 3:36pm |
|
Claret Murph
Paul McGrath Hmmm, Goodness, I must say Joined: 16 Apr 2009 Location: Tibet Status: Offline Points: 15750 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I must say Dave and MF are very good at debating as i find it hard to know who i would go with .
Am i right in saying that the Americans were close to siding with the oppssition who ever they were at the time when Assad's forces used chemcals weapons ?
Was this Isi or some other group ? Edited by Claret Murph - 10 Feb 2015 at 3:47pm |
|
Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
|
|
coyne
Paul McGrath Joined: 17 Aug 2013 Location: Sunderland Status: Offline Points: 15881 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Another hostage dead. The friendly fire from the Jordanian warplanes hitting Raqqa IS were claiming been confirmed true.
Edited by coyne - 10 Feb 2015 at 3:51pm |
|
Madferret
Ray Houghton Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
To the best of my knowledge Murph, Washington has backed the secular rebels, for want of another description, since the get-go, that is the Free Syrian Army who are largely Sunni. There is greater politics at play here, that is Assad is an ally to Iran and emotionally to the current government in Bagdad. Of course Washington isn't too fond of Tehran so it's in their interests that a triple alliance of Syria/Iraq/Iran doesn't emerge in such a strategic location, especially given their own oil dependence. Such a scenario terrifies Washington because if the Kurds broke away (they won't because the US backs Turkey thru NATO to use as eyes and ears on the Russians), and you had effectively a Shia State in Iraq, then the potential for US influence would dwindle. Naturally Israel wouldn't be too happy with that either.
It's all murky jockeying for position. See over 100 years ago and the "Great powers" arbitrarily dividing up those lands into "protectorates" over a Gin & Tonic and game of chess. Some things never change. The Americans and to a lesser extent the UK and France want enough instability in that region that it keeps everyone on their toes and they can play each off the other in addition to support their own massive domestic arms industries, but of course they don't want TOO much instability that strong Independent leaders emerge tht give them the long term two fingers. I have read a fair & seen a fair bit on how the US, UK, other Western govts aswell as Middle Eastern states, such as the Saudi's & Qatar have both armed and trained these groups. I'm referring to both the secular and Jihadi groups. Imo, the Western powers shouldn't be getting involved at all. I even seen a video with an ISIS "Brigade" training in a camp with RPG's using US Aid tents. Not saying they were supplied directly but it is rather curious. Jihadi interviewees themselves have said they received "Western" training in both Saudi & Qatar. What we see is not what we see. The US have boots on the ground aswell as eyes in the sky, we just don't know the full extent of it yet. Thanks for the compliment btw, I like debating with SuperDave and reading his posts. He is always respectful and honest in his arguements no matter the topic. I've a lot of time for him.
|
|
sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
4.: Exile in a benevolent country. Examples include the Shah of Iran, Duvalier in Haiti, Marcos in the Philippines and Idi Amin in Uganda.
|
|
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Nixon wasn't doing that to his own people (at least not the vast majority of it). He may qualify as a tyrant but he wasn't a dictator. Dictators generally don't relinquish power willingly. Nixon resigned and, if he hadn't been caught on Watergate, there is no suggestion he wasn't going to abide by the two term limit or somehow seek to circumvent it. I see where you are coming from and it may be fair to say Assad is not a tyrant but it doesn't mean he isn't a dictator. He effectively rules by decree, as did his father before him. Power is concentrated in his hands and his hands alone and there is no sign of that changing because the system is set up in such a way as to perpetuate his rule. That makes him a dictator, not the moral qualities of his actions. Nixon didn't rule by decree and still had to deal with Congress and the Supreme Court (as do all US Presidents). It's not length of time that matters, it's not even the actions. You can have benevolent dictators. It's whether the system is set up to protect the President from the People. In the US, it isn't (aside from the Secret Service). In Syria, it seems very much that it is. Assad is a dictator. He might not be the worst of them, but he is a dictator. It's not even necessarily a bad thing that he is a dictator (if the people don't mind him, although that doesn't seem to be the case) and nobody said that democracy protects you from tyranny (as you point out, plenty of tyrants have been democratically elected) but the Assad regime is designed to protect Assad, not Syrians. |
|
|
|
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
One other thing: the tar sands oil in Canada along with shale gas are well on their way to making the US energy independent (well, North America). That could lead to a period of US foreign relations being more isolationist. It's unlikely at the minute (as a lot of mindsets need to change in the administration) but a new Republican president with a tea party mentality behind it (and potentially one that isn't keen on spending huge amounts of "taxpayers' money" on the military industrial complex) could see a retreat from the interventionist US approach. The Canadian economy is already showing signs of becoming a petrodollar economy and they aren't necessarily loving it.
It's just a theory but it is a possibility. The interesting thing is that the democrats have generally been quicker to oppose the military industrial complex than republicans (save where jobs in their own states are concerned, of course) but if fiscally conservative republicans get behind it, it'll be interesting. From the Koch Brothers perspective, it is probably better than US consumers consume US and Canadian oil and gas, and they bankroll any number of tea party hacks through PACs. They would probably prefer the US out of the Middle East militarily, for any number of reasons. It impacts supply reliability (and encourages volatility of supply and increases their chances of making money), it reduces federal spending (and plays into their small government, libertarian ideology) and it increases investment in domestic energy security (which definitely helps their interests). I wouldn't be surprised to see the US becoming more isolationist over the next few years, no matter who wins the next election. Edited by SuperDave84 - 10 Feb 2015 at 4:19pm |
|
|
|
The Huntacha
Roy Keane Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 12783 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Great, informed debate there lads
|
|
Jimmy Bullard - "Favorite band? Elastic."
|
|
Madferret
Ray Houghton Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Some great replies there Dave, informative as ever and unfortunately I'm almost out of time on my daily YBIG quota so to be continued... suffice to say whilst I'd disagree over some points I think we can agree Assad is using the military & political apparatus to save his own ass. But, with just 15% of the population and about 20% if you throw in the Christians, Druze & Ismaili's then I guess what option is he left with, except to piss off to Tahiti with a copy of Keano the biography.
|
|
Post Reply | Page <1 23456 28> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |