Underage squads: Best Prospects

Danny Invincible wrote: Territorial; to suggest the FAI have a sectarian selection policy is simply ridiculous, not to mention scandalous. It should be pretty obvious to anyone without an anti-FAI agenda or anyone not trying to twist things through logical gymnastics; the FAI can't select or facilitate any player who doesn't want to play for them. It is also important for guys like Territorial (assuming he's not on a wind-up) to realise that an individual's religion is not a matter of public note south of the border in the same way it is north of the border.

The FAI may not be consciously sectarian, indeed would express outrage at being accused of same.

But they would also doubtless claim that they are/want to be open to all Irish people, regardless of religion etc.

Which is fine so far as it goes. But there is a huge difference between their (declared) Intent and their (actual) Practice.

There is no doubt that many Irish (NI) Prods would feel uncomfortable standing for the Soldiers Song and Tricolour etc. And the fact that eg the players can sing rebel songs on the team bus, or the CEO can sing an IRA song in public, without any censure whatever from the FAI - Delaney even joked about it - only adds to the problem.

Therefore if the FAI was serious about being not just "non-sectarian", but positively anti-sectarian, then it would make the changes necessary to make all feel comfortable. And start offering invitations to participate to all eligible players who may be good enough.

Now I understand perfectly why they might be unwilling to make changes to the flag and anthem etc. But unless/until they do, then they cannot deny the inevitably sectarian consequences of their general policy on these matters.

And they (or their supporters) certainly cannot point the finger at the IFA for alienating Catholics because of GSTQ or the Stormont banner etc.

Then again, what better can one expect from an organisation which employs an unscrupulous gobsh*te like Delaney as its CEO?

And as regards Kernaghan:
1. The IFA did not "snub" him, they merely declined to break their own relevant rule/policy in force at the time;
2. AK probably doesn't care about politics and religion etc, much like the many Catholics who turn out for NI. Then again, the "agnostics" were never the problem;
3. AK was an isolated anachronism from nearly a quarter of a century ago. How many other NI Prods have there been since in the various ROI teams?

But hey, you tell us that you want Prods, so it cannot be the Association's fault if they don't want to play for you. Unlike in NI, where when Catholics don't want to play for NI, then it MUST be the Association's fault.

P.S. Had the CEO of the IFA been seen singing eg The Sash in a public house round the corner from WP on the night of a game, he'd have been out on his ear within 24 hours. But hey ho, we're the bigots...

horsebox wrote: The sash is not a sectarian song and neither is Joe McDonnell.

Yeah, right.

And if you hear someone singing The Sash in a pub, you might think the singer could equally be Prod or Catholic? Ditto Joe McDonnell. That must be why they're interchangeable in the repertoire of Celtic and Rangers fans...

horsebox wrote: However, it's probably ill advised to be singing these songs in public especially if you are a CEO of a sporting organisation.

"Ill-advised". Love the mealy-mouthed description. Anyhow, tell me again how Delaney's er, lapse of judgement rebounded upon him?

What sanction did he face?

As I say, had Patrick Nelson done anything comparable, 24 hours max.

horsebox wrote: Are you actually on here whinging because the FAI are not targeting NI Prods

Are you defending the FAI for NOT targeting NI Prods?

Anyhow, I am merely pointing out a particularly egregious aspect of the FAI's current selection policy, namely that it is Institutionally Sectarian.

And if you want to know what that means, the following definition from the Commission for Racial Equality hits the mark (substitute "sectarian" for "racist"):
"If racist consequences accrue to institutional laws, customs or practices, that institution is racist whether or not the individuals maintaning those practices have racial intentions."
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/feb/24/lawrence.ukcrime7


Edited by Territorial - 26 Feb 2015 at 4:38pm

The Sash is representative of an organisation that is sectarian though Sham so could be seen as such.

Territorial wrote: There is no doubt that many Irish (NI) Prods would feel uncomfortable standing for the Soldiers Song and Tricolour etc. And the fact that eg the players can sing rebel songs on the team bus, or the CEO can sing an IRA song in public, without any censure whatever from the FAI - Delaney even joked about it - only adds to the problem. ... Now I understand perfectly why they might be unwilling to make changes to the flag and anthem etc. But unless/until they do, then they cannot deny the inevitably sectarian consequences of their general policy on these matters.

Well, luckily northern unionists/Protestants who wouldn't feel comfortable affiliating with the FAI don't have to do so. If they'd rather opt for the IFA, they can do that instead. And good for them. Nobody is trampling upon anyone's rights. Everyone's happy.

I strongly reject the accusation that the FAI are sectarian in practice, but I would suggest you wind your neck in and take your complaints about the FAI elsewhere until you have some stake in the association. Why should the FAI change to keep you happy (if it need change at all)? The association can identify however it wishes. You have absolutely no interest in the association so it's absolutely none of your business. Your line of reasoning is bizarre. Would you and other unionists want to play for the FAI or something if the association changed in some way? Would it make you happy to see Ulster Protestants declaring for the FAI or what? I just don't get why you're making out that this is an issue for you (besides wishing to deflect from your own responsibility); you obviously don't want that. 

And start offering invitations to participate to all eligible players who may be good enough.

All eligible Irish nationals are welcome if willing and good enough. The FAI can't force people to affiliate with them. If Ulster Protestants want to affiliate with the IFA, that's fine; why should the FAI care, especially if everyone's happy and nobody's being trampled upon?

And they (or their supporters) certainly cannot point the finger at the IFA for alienating Catholics because of GSTQ or the Stormont banner etc.

The IFA represents an identity through which Irish nationalists would rather not channel their own; not out of bigotry or anything, but that being because nationalists identify with the non-British independent Irish national identity channeled through the Irish state and the ROI team by virtue of that. That's fine for all concerned. I don't feel alienated by the IFA, just as I don't feel alienated by, say, the FA, SFA or FAW; they're all simply culturally irrelevant to me because my team is organised by the FAI. I don't care if the IFA play 'GSTQ' or whatever. Good for them if they do. It's none of my business. 

And as regards Kernaghan: 1. The IFA did not "snub" him, they merely declined to break their own relevant rule/policy in force at the time; 2. AK probably doesn't care about politics and religion etc, much like the many Catholics who turn out for NI. Then again, the "agnostics" were never the problem; 3. AK was an isolated anachronism from nearly a quarter of a century ago. How many other NI Prods have there been since in the various ROI teams?

I'm aware of why Kernaghan couldn't play for NI. To quote him, religion and politics "meant diddly" to him. I understand Adam Barton and Alex Bruce are from Ulster Protestant backgrounds too. The FAI never had a problem selecting them. Did you read everything I posted above?

But hey, you tell us that you want Prods, so it cannot be the Association's fault if they don't want to play for you. Unlike in NI, where when Catholics don't want to play for NI, then it MUST be the Association's fault.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. 

P.S. Had the CEO of the IFA been seen singing eg The Sash in a public house round the corner from WP on the night of a game, he'd have been out on his ear within 24 hours. But hey ho, we're the bigots...

Just to point it out to you, former-IFA president Raymond Kennedy was a member of the Orange Order, which is completely fine before you assume I'm whining at you like you are about the FAI. I couldn't care less; it's of no consequence to me. I'm just pointing out the oddity of you getting highly strung about the players accommodated by the FAI as well as the conduct of John Delaney and feeling like you should have some right to demand his removal. Why should the FAI remotely care about you? Who are you to tell us what to do?

Territorial wrote: roverstillidie wrote: Quoting British law as to why the FAI won't play 'prods' sums up the intellectual Cul de sac you have driven into. Ah right, it's "Brit Law", so it cannot have any value. And this on a thread discussing Prejudice.... Un-f**king-believable. Anyhow, pick the bones out of this, and tell me where the Tricolour, Soldiers Song and Rebel Songs fit in with encouraging ALL Irish people to represent the FAI: Sport Against Racism Ireland (SARI) aims are to : Present sporting and cultural events that bring together people from different cultures and backgrounds; Create opportunities for young people to participate in social integration projects at home and abroad; Promote intercultural dialogue and celebrate cultural diversity through projects in schools; Encourage government agencies and national sports bodies to adopt anti - racism measures and inclusion of policies and practices (See more at: http://www.sari.ie/sport-against-racism-ireland/#sthash.MFtcPP1v.dpuf ) roverstillidie wrote: If kids from a PUL background don't want to play for Ireland, that is not the FAI being sectarian, it's because they don't want to for various reasons. Cause and effect. And why don't PUL kids want to play for "Ireland" [sic] in the first place? Nothing to do with eg the aforementioned Flag, Anthem, Rebel Songs perchance? Or the idea that if you want to join in, you do so on other peoples' terms, not ones to which all might adhere equally? Oh it's 'cause and effect' all right....

but that is my bloody point. The societal fractures in the 6 counties are bigger than football. Blaming the FAI for PUL kids not identifying with the Irish Republic is literally insane.

Saying our anthem and flag is sectarian is wee wullie frazer stuff

Can we dump all the eligibility convos in a designated thread so I know which one to avoid?

yeah pain in the bollix this thread. just a load of sh*te talk. Keep opening it when I see 5 new posts hoping someone has posted about a young player.

Edited by SimonCox - 26 Feb 2015 at 8:26pm

"And they (or their supporters) certainly cannot point the finger at the IFA for alienating Catholics because of GSTQ or the Stormont banner etc."

I agree with a lot of what you say Territorial, but not this.

Just because you follow one team doesn't mean you blindly accept everything for which they stand. Nor does it mean that your ability to criticise others should be limited by association. A member of the Ku Klux Klan could point out that fox hunting is wrong and could stand up for the RSPCA..... should his right to criticise fox hunting be restricted by the fact he is a Klansman? Of course not.

Just because we support the ROI national team doesn't mean that we are not ourselves non-sectarian or anti-sectarian or whatever. You cannot use that affiliation to stop our right to criticise the IFA if, and it is an if, they are engaged in the alienation of Catholics or the condoning of sectarian behaviour, if that's how we see it.

Apparently only 10 of the 55 players used by English teams in the Champions League this week were English.  Pretty shocking statistic and highlights the problems Irish players face in trying to break through.