You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : International : Republic Of Ireland
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Underage squads: Best Prospects
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Underage squads: Best Prospects

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 311312313314315 330>
Author
Message
John Nice View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Location: Wexford
Status: Offline
Points: 5137
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

How do you know he's hav a good chance of getting game time over there in Frosinone? I dont mean to be flippant but I douby any of us on here are experts in the squad depth of mid table Serie B teams.
Even if he does go there and plays, is it really better for his career than starting regularly for a club here and then getting a move to the UK? I really dont think players moving to smaller clubs in Europe is working out. Deji Sotona left United to go to a French club and hasnt had a career of any sort since. Wasnt there another of our top U15 players who went off to a club like Reims or Rennes and no word since (maybe I heard he was moving to a UK club.) Guys like Heffernan and Zefi went to bigger clubs in Europe and ended up back in UK at 18-19 anyway.

Would Mason Melia at Pats really benefit from going off to an underage setup now in some random German club for example, or is he better off at Pats with the first team.

There are romantic notions out there that some of our players are better of going to european leagues and benefitting from a more 'technical' league, but I just dont agree its a better approach.

Look at Dawson Devoy. Getting a decent career for himself in MK Dons. 34 appearaances last year. He's only 21. MK Dons are 2nd in League 2.

If I was a kid again, and if I was a decent standard, I'd be going nowhere near mid table Serie B team. Or 2nd Div Swiss team. Or 2nd Div Dutch teams...

People will say that the standard of them leagues is better than LOI but you've a far better chance getting a move to a decent club in the UK if you stuck around LOI a but longer and didnt jump to some random European club

They're in Serie A. They just got promoted. They won Serie B last season.

Dawn Devoy playing in League Two is not something to hype. Frosinone are miles ahead of that level.






Also, Josh Cullen and Jake O'Brien say hello - it's not just some romantic notion, there are a myriad of factors to take into account, who can say Heffernan would have been better off at Cork, yes he didnt make it at Milan, but he moved away from home and trained in a fabulous environment, maybe that will be the making of him. You cant just generalise like that. Ferizaj stayed in the LoI and cant get a game, he's 18 now and going to Serie A. 

And as Banana points out, Devoy is a weird example to pin your hat on! Relegated from L1 in a season where both he and the club struggled. Almost 22 now and facing a season in L2.
Idah Dream!
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
MC Hammered View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 6877
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 12:21pm

As a Pats supporter, I’m disappointed to see Murphy go. I genuinely think he’d be better off staying in the LOI for another full season. With the long term injury he had, he hasn’t actually played that many senior games. He could have had a great run of appearances until next Summer even. He’s unlikely to feature in Bristols first team any time soon. 

On a similar note, does anyone know what’s going on with Darragh Burns? His move looks like a disaster. Imagine he had stayed with Pats and was playing every week. 
El Puto Amo
Back to Top
J89 View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 25 Mar 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 3610
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 12:27pm
See Dan McDonnell reporting that Murphy has informed Pats he wants to join Bristol this summer rather than wait till January. Says a move should happen soon.

That Murphy turned down PL options as Bristol offered him a quicker path to first team football rather than playing PL2 football.
Back to Top
greenshoots View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2021
Location: Limerick
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenshoots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 1:20pm
Points taken lads, a couple of terribly badly made points (I'm trying to get actual work done while distracted on here and doing both badly it seems lol).
I did check Frosinone on Soccerway but mistakenly saw Serie B listed about them, didnt realise they were Serie A. Never heard of them and I'd consider myself a soccer fan...
Devoy as well was a bad example, but I was trying to highlight a player who started in LOI, was one of the top players here and got himself a decent career in the UK.
I'm no LOI champion either, havent been to a game in years so it's not that I am pushing LOI over anything else.
A poster mentioned Cullen and O'Brien going to Europe. Yes this did, but they went over from UK clubs. They didnt make the jump from not getting a game with Rovers straight to a european first team
With Brexit happening, obviously we arent seeing our 15-17 year old kids going to the UK anymore. I am merely questioning whether going to european clubs is a better option than staying at home and getting first team games in LOI and then moving on. No one can say whether Heffernan was better off going to Milan or not, of course it's all hypothetical. The lad is so good he'd probably have made it anyway....
My opinion would be, in general, home clubs might be better compared to random clubs abroad.

And I'll be following Frisinone very closely this season now lads ok!!


Edited by greenshoots - 22 Aug 2023 at 1:21pm
Back to Top
greenshoots View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2021
Location: Limerick
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenshoots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 1:29pm
I also wasnt aware of the links with Ferizaj and Frosinone, seems like the news broke on Aug 3rd. Has the move gone through?
Back to Top
BrendanD88 View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

99% of my posts are emojis

Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Location: Co Down
Status: Offline
Points: 10022
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

Frosinone? Seriously, what's the point in that?? If he's fallen out of favour at Rovers, wouldnt he be better off finding a new club here at home, knuckling down, making a big impression and put himself in the same position as yiung Adam Murphy at St Pats who looks like he is about to get a decent move to a UK club. Moving to Frosinone is just plain daft!

Imagine giving off about an Irish lad joining a Serie A club over a lower league English side in a year or two! Give your head a wobble.

Back to Top
Badgersboys9 View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton
Avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 3532
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

I also wasnt aware of the links with Ferizaj and Frosinone, seems like the news broke on Aug 3rd. Has the move gone through?
Completing a medical this morning .
Back to Top
kevin100 View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 01 Jul 2020
Location: Mallow
Status: Offline
Points: 3392
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

Points taken lads, a couple of terribly badly made points (I'm trying to get actual work done while distracted on here and doing both badly it seems lol).
I did check Frosinone on Soccerway but mistakenly saw Serie B listed about them, didnt realise they were Serie A. Never heard of them and I'd consider myself a soccer fan...
Devoy as well was a bad example, but I was trying to highlight a player who started in LOI, was one of the top players here and got himself a decent career in the UK.
I'm no LOI champion either, havent been to a game in years so it's not that I am pushing LOI over anything else.
A poster mentioned Cullen and O'Brien going to Europe. Yes this did, but they went over from UK clubs. They didnt make the jump from not getting a game with Rovers straight to a european first team
With Brexit happening, obviously we arent seeing our 15-17 year old kids going to the UK anymore. I am merely questioning whether going to european clubs is a better option than staying at home and getting first team games in LOI and then moving on. No one can say whether Heffernan was better off going to Milan or not, of course it's all hypothetical. The lad is so good he'd probably have made it anyway....
My opinion would be, in general, home clubs might be better compared to random clubs abroad.

And I'll be following Frisinone very closely this season now lads ok!!
 

I think your original post using Devoy in League 2 as your template of a player better off than going to a Serie A club gave staunch ignorant Englander vibes which is what caused the reaction to it!!

I do agree with you think in general Irish players staying at home and getting exposure to men’s football/environments here first is a positive. McNally,Negru,O’Brien,Emakhu,Phillips,Armstrong etc are all recent endorsements of this definitely have benefited from it. Abankwah another example. A handful of appearances for Udinese but you have to factor in he’s playing for a top flight club and is very much a first team squad member already for them. 

Lads will point to Melia or Curtis let’s say and retort if Ferguson didn’t leave early he wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing at Brighton now. Of course they are correct but Curtis and Melia being arguably the best prospects of their respective year groups like Ferguson are exceptions not the rule! 

Even Ferguson himself got that exposure for Bohs a year or two before moving across and it was evident early he was better than 18s/21s football when he moved over. 



Back to Top
greenshoots View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2021
Location: Limerick
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenshoots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:17pm
Adam Murphy at Pats is reported to be turning down moves to Premier League clubs, with a view that a move to Bristol City would give him a better chance of game tine. So wouldnt Ferizaj be better off doing something similar rather than taking a jump straight to a Serie A team?

We're all hoping that some of quality young fellas we have coming through can actually make it in the pro world. I'm just hoping they dont take bad advice and make career moves at this stage that dont help their career.

Ferizaj could get on well in Frosinone but he could also go there, stagnate in some underage or reserve team setup and not start getting the 1st team games he might get elsewhere.
Back to Top
Borussia View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane
Avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 10780
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

Adam Murphy at Pats is reported to be turning down moves to Premier League clubs, with a view that a move to Bristol City would give him a better chance of game tine. So wouldnt Ferizaj be better off doing something similar rather than taking a jump straight to a Serie A team?

We're all hoping that some of quality young fellas we have coming through can actually make it in the pro world. I'm just hoping they dont take bad advice and make career moves at this stage that dont help their career.

Ferizaj could get on well in Frosinone but he could also go there, stagnate in some underage or reserve team setup and not start getting the 1st team games he might get elsewhere.

What other options is he turning down?


Edited by Borussia - 22 Aug 2023 at 2:34pm
Back to Top
John Nice View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Location: Wexford
Status: Offline
Points: 5137
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

Points taken lads, a couple of terribly badly made points (I'm trying to get actual work done while distracted on here and doing both badly it seems lol).
I did check Frosinone on Soccerway but mistakenly saw Serie B listed about them, didnt realise they were Serie A. Never heard of them and I'd consider myself a soccer fan...
Devoy as well was a bad example, but I was trying to highlight a player who started in LOI, was one of the top players here and got himself a decent career in the UK.
I'm no LOI champion either, havent been to a game in years so it's not that I am pushing LOI over anything else.
A poster mentioned Cullen and O'Brien going to Europe. Yes this did, but they went over from UK clubs. They didnt make the jump from not getting a game with Rovers straight to a european first team
With Brexit happening, obviously we arent seeing our 15-17 year old kids going to the UK anymore. I am merely questioning whether going to european clubs is a better option than staying at home and getting first team games in LOI and then moving on. No one can say whether Heffernan was better off going to Milan or not, of course it's all hypothetical. The lad is so good he'd probably have made it anyway....
My opinion would be, in general, home clubs might be better compared to random clubs abroad.

And I'll be following Frisinone very closely this season now lads ok!!
 

I think your original post using Devoy in League 2 as your template of a player better off than going to a Serie A club gave staunch ignorant Englander vibes which is what caused the reaction to it!!

I do agree with you think in general Irish players staying at home and getting exposure to men’s football/environments here first is a positive. McNally,Negru,O’Brien,Emakhu,Phillips,Armstrong etc are all recent endorsements of this definitely have benefited from it. Abankwah another example. A handful of appearances for Udinese but you have to factor in he’s playing for a top flight club and is very much a first team squad member already for them. 

Lads will point to Melia or Curtis let’s say and retort if Ferguson didn’t leave early he wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing at Brighton now. Of course they are correct but Curtis and Melia being arguably the best prospects of their respective year groups like Ferguson are exceptions not the rule! 

Even Ferguson himself got that exposure for Bohs a year or two before moving across and it was evident early he was better than 18s/21s football when he moved over. 




That's a sweeping generalisation tbh and of the examples you listed, Armstrong only played 6 times for Rovers reserves before going over to QPR at 17, Jake O'Brien played a grand total of 9 times for Cork City's senior team while Negru played 6 games for Shels seniors. Abankwah played 9 times for St Pats before being loaned back after signing for Udinese just after his 18th birthday. We really have yet to see what effect Brexit has had, as the likes of Heffernan. Zefi, McJannet, Moore etc are still too young to gauge whether or not their early moves abroad have been beneficial or not.
Idah Dream!
Back to Top
greenshoots View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2021
Location: Limerick
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenshoots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:29pm
as per the Indo today.....

"the Bristol City option has proved too good to turn down, with Nigel Pearson’s charges offering Murphy a long-term contract and a viable route to first-team involvement soon – that was more attractive to the player than joining a Premier League club where he would be consigned to their U-21 team for a long period."


I'd question how one of Pats brightest talents was left with just a few months on his contract. Surely he should have been tied down to a long term contract a while ago and they'd be in a position to get a decent fee for him.


Edited by greenshoots - 22 Aug 2023 at 2:30pm
Back to Top
BrendanD88 View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

99% of my posts are emojis

Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Location: Co Down
Status: Offline
Points: 10022
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

Adam Murphy at Pats is reported to be turning down moves to Premier League clubs, with a view that a move to Bristol City would give him a better chance of game tine. So wouldnt Ferizaj be better off doing something similar rather than taking a jump straight to a Serie A team?

We're all hoping that some of quality young fellas we have coming through can actually make it in the pro world. I'm just hoping they dont take bad advice and make career moves at this stage that dont help their career.

Ferizaj could get on well in Frosinone but he could also go there, stagnate in some underage or reserve team setup and not start getting the 1st team games he might get elsewhere.

He could stagnate at any club he moves too whether that be a Serie A side or an English conference side! He’s showing a bit of ambition and can only be commended, trying to paint the move as a negative says more about you than him.
Back to Top
Badgersboys9 View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton
Avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 3532
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

I think your original post using Devoy in League 2 as your template of a player better off than going to a Serie A club gave staunch ignorant Englander vibes which is what caused the reaction to it!!

Wtf is a staunch ignorant Englander?
Back to Top
kevin100 View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 01 Jul 2020
Location: Mallow
Status: Offline
Points: 3392
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

Points taken lads, a couple of terribly badly made points (I'm trying to get actual work done while distracted on here and doing both badly it seems lol).
I did check Frosinone on Soccerway but mistakenly saw Serie B listed about them, didnt realise they were Serie A. Never heard of them and I'd consider myself a soccer fan...
Devoy as well was a bad example, but I was trying to highlight a player who started in LOI, was one of the top players here and got himself a decent career in the UK.
I'm no LOI champion either, havent been to a game in years so it's not that I am pushing LOI over anything else.
A poster mentioned Cullen and O'Brien going to Europe. Yes this did, but they went over from UK clubs. They didnt make the jump from not getting a game with Rovers straight to a european first team
With Brexit happening, obviously we arent seeing our 15-17 year old kids going to the UK anymore. I am merely questioning whether going to european clubs is a better option than staying at home and getting first team games in LOI and then moving on. No one can say whether Heffernan was better off going to Milan or not, of course it's all hypothetical. The lad is so good he'd probably have made it anyway....
My opinion would be, in general, home clubs might be better compared to random clubs abroad.

And I'll be following Frisinone very closely this season now lads ok!!
 

I think your original post using Devoy in League 2 as your template of a player better off than going to a Serie A club gave staunch ignorant Englander vibes which is what caused the reaction to it!!

I do agree with you think in general Irish players staying at home and getting exposure to men’s football/environments here first is a positive. McNally,Negru,O’Brien,Emakhu,Phillips,Armstrong etc are all recent endorsements of this definitely have benefited from it. Abankwah another example. A handful of appearances for Udinese but you have to factor in he’s playing for a top flight club and is very much a first team squad member already for them. 

Lads will point to Melia or Curtis let’s say and retort if Ferguson didn’t leave early he wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing at Brighton now. Of course they are correct but Curtis and Melia being arguably the best prospects of their respective year groups like Ferguson are exceptions not the rule! 

Even Ferguson himself got that exposure for Bohs a year or two before moving across and it was evident early he was better than 18s/21s football when he moved over. 




That's a sweeping generalisation tbh and of the examples you listed, Armstrong only played 6 times for Rovers reserves before going over to QPR at 17, Jake O'Brien played a grand total of 9 times for Cork City's senior team while Negru played 6 games for Shels seniors. Abankwah played 9 times for St Pats before being loaned back after signing for Udinese just after his 18th birthday. We really have yet to see what effect Brexit has had, as the likes of Heffernan. Zefi, McJannet, Moore etc are still too young to gauge whether or not their early moves abroad have been beneficial or not.
 

Exposure to football and environments meaning not just games but training every day with men/in senior squads. It’s a massive benefit and I don’t think it’s a generalisation at all think the above are all recent and decent examples of how it can benefit them. Mcjannet came through the English system (he’s English born) so don’t know what relevance he has to young players in LOI environments. 

Zefi and Heffernan moved early. I mentioned factoring in Udinese with Abankwah think you have to factor in how hard it is to breakthrough at top clubs like AC/Inter Milan,or “Prem” clubs nowadays. Prem clubs no matter where you come from are hard to break into for young players. 
Back to Top
greenshoots View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2021
Location: Limerick
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenshoots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 2:54pm
Oh yeah, I missed that!

staunch ignorant Englander vibes!!!

Now that's a ridiculous comment... I'm an avid follower of the irish underage setup. Apology demanded lol
Back to Top
kevin100 View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 01 Jul 2020
Location: Mallow
Status: Offline
Points: 3392
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

Oh yeah, I missed that!

staunch ignorant Englander vibes!!!

Now that's a ridiculous comment... I'm an avid follower of the irish underage setup. Apology demanded lol
 

I sincerely apologise!! LOLLOL 

Was just saying the example you used likely gave that off to a few posters! LOL 

Could see the point you were making and as I said above I in many ways agree with it.
Back to Top
greenshoots View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 2021
Location: Limerick
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenshoots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 3:23pm
apology accepted!

Maybe some of the more 'learned colleagues' on here might help, but if we take the case of Mason Melia, how do Pats make sure they are in a position to get a decent fee for the lad in a few years? The simple view is to offer a break the bank contract offer now for 5 years for example. Is this what they will do? Will the players advisors only let him sign a 1 or 2 year deal. He is 16 years old in exactly a months time (22nd Sept) so presumably he'll get some sort of contract from him on the day of his birthday.....

It has always intrigued me how badly LOI clubs seem to fare when getting their players bought by UK clubs predominantly. Even with Heffernan who went to Milan and who's now gone to Newcastle for little/minimal fee, any sell on clause Cork had will turn out to be worth nothing. So clubs thinking they are onto a winner by selling a player for 50 grand but getting 15% of a sell on clause aren't necessarily gonna see big bucks at the end of the day either.

I do appreciate it does work out in some cases, as with Even Ferguson where Bohs will see 10-15 million coming their way in the next few years....
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 311312313314315 330>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.