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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 4:15pm
You've failed to backup anything you've said, instead, answering a question with a question and then playing the EPL card.

Keep playing the 'were sh*te card' it ties in with negative narrative towards everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

You've failed to backup anything you've said, instead, answering a question with a question and then playing the EPL card.

Keep playing the 'were sh*te card' it ties in with negative narrative towards everything.
And neither have you. You listed clubs and said they are of a similar level! If you want me to respond, make an argument.
Our players are technically poor, our best player is a right-back and we relied on a player whose second touch is often a tackle, to get to a playoff. There is a huge problem with accepting reality on here.
MON should have gone after the Denmark embarrassment, but if you think we are going to improve ten-fold by appointing another manager you will be sorely disappointed.
Sweden are adding European under 21 champions to their ranks, we are adding journeymen with little more than heart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 4:33pm
I never said about replacing O'Neill with another manager.
I never said anything about not accepting that we are technically poor either.

What I am doing is looking at what I believe are similar sides to us and looking at what they are doing right and what we are doing wrong.

There are many sides without any technically great players (like Sweden) who can compete at a high level, there is no reason why we can't do the same.

The opposite side to this is Argentina. They have lots of technically strong players but are managed by an inept coach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 4:38pm
Sweden are light years ahead of us with technically better players. They may well be average and overachieving, I'm sure we will agree there, Switzerland have a better team on paper, but they have players on their bench that I would love to be available to us.
Their whole structure, from top to bottom, is better than ours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 4:51pm
In Sweden's last 7 competitive international games their possession stats are very similiar to what we usually hit.

Away to Holland 33% (2-0 defeat)
Home to Italy 36% (1-0 draw)
Away to Italy 25% (0-0 draw)

Against South Korea 53% (1-0 win)
Against Germany 29% (2-1 defeat)
Against Mexico 35% (3-0 win)

Against Switzerland currently they've got 36% possession (1-0 win)

Having watched Sweden numerous times over the past number of years be it live or on telly, one thing is extremely evident and it's how well drilled and well organized they are.

Under Hamren they were far more attack minded (always helped having Zlatan of course) in comparison to how they are now under Janne Andersson which is far more defensive and compact.

I wouldn't say overall their players are technically brilliant, the majority are very honest and good professionals. 

At this moment in time even if we had Janne Andersson in charge do I think we'd be in the last 8 of the World Cup, no. I do feel O'Neill isn't getting the best out of this group of players we have mind and his lazy unimaginative style of management is getting found out.


Edited by Green Devil - 03 Jul 2018 at 4:53pm
"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"

Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 4:54pm
They are not technically brilliant, just to reiterate, merely technically superior to us. A bit like having better vision than Mr. Magoo.
They are brilliantly managed though, no doubts there and I agree entirely with your final paragraph.

Edited by pre Madonna - 03 Jul 2018 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 4:56pm
There's very little quality-wise between ourselves and some of the teams who've made the last-16; like Japan, Sweden, Denmark, and Russia. All of us essentially have one very good player, and after that it's down to how well the manager uses the rest of the team. O'Neill failed miserably in that respect in our last campaign.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Pat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

There's very little quality-wise between ourselves and some of the teams who've made the last-16; like Japan, Sweden, Denmark, and Russia. All of us essentially have one very good player, and after that it's down to how well the manager uses the rest of the team. O'Neill failed miserably in that respect in our last campaign.

Absolutely correct. The "we just don't have players" argument that gets trotted our here on the regular wrecks my head. So much can be achieved in modern international football by having an ethos/defined style of play and working hard at perfecting that style, no matter what it is. For the past 18 months our players simply look like they don't know what they're supposed to be doing out there. The buck stops with O'Neill. 

It's tiresome listing through players from other nations and matching them to ours but as a little example Knudsen (ipswich), Dalsgaard (Brentford) and Braithwaite (couldn't make it at Boro) helped to take Croatia to pens on Sunday. 
Geremi has let Kilbane in here, cross comes out to Holland, 1:1!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 5:33pm
Angry "On the regular"? f**king hell!
 
Let's handpick players again, shall we? This is what wrecks my head! No doubt, as soon as we play Wales and Denmark again we will have this trite sh*te!
"Without their much better players and technically superior players, and taking in to consideration we have five EPL players to their four, shows anything other than a comfortable win is a terrible result."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 5:59pm
PM loves Martin 
PM loves Martin 


SmileSmileSmile



'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Newryrep Newryrep wrote:

PM loves Martin 
PM loves Martin 


SmileSmileSmile



Which part of ' I think he should be sacked' are ya struggling with?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 7:01pm
I bet there is Italian, Chile, American, Cameroon and Welsh fans amongst other saying the exact same thing.

Happens every WC.




Edited by Zinedine Kilbane 110 - 03 Jul 2018 at 7:01pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

I bet there is Italian, Chile, American, Cameroon and Welsh fans amongst other saying the exact same thing.

Happens every WC.


And they all have some good players!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OnTheOneRoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 11:28pm
I think the penny would drop if we could clone Marouane Fellaini 10 times, give out 10 Irish passports, play all of them in front of Darren Randolph, and finally wonder why we have 20% possession against Georgia when all of our players play for Manchester United.

We look at our players and the clubs they play for as if that tells the whole story a bit too much. We could have 11 Premier League players and it wouldn't necessarily tell us anything. I think the issue is that we have a lot of players who do a job for certain clubs, and are signed because "you need a player like that at your club". There are a lot of teams around the bottom of the Premier League or top of the Championship that could do with what James McClean offers - his pace, stamina and aggression. Similarly, lots of clubs have taken a punt on Shane Long for his willingness to run the channels, pace and physicality, David Meyler does the basics well and is a safe man to put into a midfield, Jon Walters is a big strong experienced old head with an eye for goal, Glenn Whelan saw off X amount of players bought to be his replacement at Stoke, and so on and so forth.

The problem arises when you try to build a team of players from that. Obviously as an international team we can't go out and buy players to build a balanced side and lots of international teams are unbalanced. But our players for the most part fulfil a defined role at their clubs which is more often than not that they are recruited for their work rate, pace, physical strength or defensive attributes - meaning it doesn't matter if our players play in the Premier League or wherever else, in terms of figuring out how good they will actually all perform for us when put together. In our strongest squad, there are very very few players who would be considered technically of a very high standard, particularly in midfield where it is most sorely needed. Two who would be of that quality (Brady and Hendrick) have not performed for us since 2016. One (Hourihane) has looked awful in the games he has played so far, though that isn't to say he can't turn it around.

It's telling that Declan Rice has been such a revelation for us for the simple fact that he is comfortable in possession, can pick a smart pass, and remains composed. He is a 19 year old centre half coming off his first full season of professional football that we are playing in midfield and looks set to be a key player in the Nations League because of the fact that we don't have anyone else who can do this. 


Edited by OnTheOneRoad - 03 Jul 2018 at 11:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

I think the penny would drop if we could clone Marouane Fellaini 10 times, give out 10 Irish passports, play all of them in front of Darren Randolph, and finally wonder why we have 20% possession against Georgia when all of our players play for Manchester United.

We look at our players and the clubs they play for as if that tells the whole story a bit too much. We could have 11 Premier League players and it wouldn't necessarily tell us anything. I think the issue is that we have a lot of players who do a job for certain clubs, and are signed because "you need a player like that at your club". There are a lot of teams around the bottom of the Premier League or top of the Championship that could do with what James McClean offers - his pace, stamina and aggression. Similarly, lots of clubs have taken a punt on Shane Long for his willingness to run the channels, pace and physicality, David Meyler does the basics well and is a safe man to put into a midfield, Jon Walters is a big strong experienced old head with an eye for goal, Glenn Whelan saw off X amount of players bought to be his replacement at Stoke, and so on and so forth.

The problem arises when you try to build a team of players from that. Obviously as an international team we can't go out and buy players to build a balanced side and lots of international teams are unbalanced. But our players for the most part fulfil a defined role at their clubs which is more often than not that they are recruited for their work rate, pace, physical strength or defensive attributes - meaning it doesn't matter if our players play in the Premier League or wherever else, in terms of figuring out how good they will actually all perform for us when put together. In our strongest squad, there are very very few players who would be considered technically of a very high standard, particularly in midfield where it is most sorely needed. Two who would be of that quality (Brady and Hendrick) have not performed for us since 2016. One (Hourihane) has looked awful in the games he has played so far, though that isn't to say he can't turn it around.

It's telling that Declan Rice has been such a revelation for us for the simple fact that he is comfortable in possession, can pick a smart pass, and remains composed. He is a 19 year old centre half coming off his first full season of professional football that we are playing in midfield and looks set to be a key player in the Nations League because of the fact that we don't have anyone else who can do this. 
Clap Brilliantly put.


Edited by pre Madonna - 03 Jul 2018 at 11:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2018 at 5:56am
Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

I think the penny would drop if we could clone Marouane Fellaini 10 times, give out 10 Irish passports, play all of them in front of Darren Randolph, and finally wonder why we have 20% possession against Georgia when all of our players play for Manchester United.

We look at our players and the clubs they play for as if that tells the whole story a bit too much. We could have 11 Premier League players and it wouldn't necessarily tell us anything. I think the issue is that we have a lot of players who do a job for certain clubs, and are signed because "you need a player like that at your club". There are a lot of teams around the bottom of the Premier League or top of the Championship that could do with what James McClean offers - his pace, stamina and aggression. Similarly, lots of clubs have taken a punt on Shane Long for his willingness to run the channels, pace and physicality, David Meyler does the basics well and is a safe man to put into a midfield, Jon Walters is a big strong experienced old head with an eye for goal, Glenn Whelan saw off X amount of players bought to be his replacement at Stoke, and so on and so forth.

The problem arises when you try to build a team of players from that. Obviously as an international team we can't go out and buy players to build a balanced side and lots of international teams are unbalanced. But our players for the most part fulfil a defined role at their clubs which is more often than not that they are recruited for their work rate, pace, physical strength or defensive attributes - meaning it doesn't matter if our players play in the Premier League or wherever else, in terms of figuring out how good they will actually all perform for us when put together. In our strongest squad, there are very very few players who would be considered technically of a very high standard, particularly in midfield where it is most sorely needed. Two who would be of that quality (Brady and Hendrick) have not performed for us since 2016. One (Hourihane) has looked awful in the games he has played so far, though that isn't to say he can't turn it around.

It's telling that Declan Rice has been such a revelation for us for the simple fact that he is comfortable in possession, can pick a smart pass, and remains composed. He is a 19 year old centre half coming off his first full season of professional football that we are playing in midfield and looks set to be a key player in the Nations League because of the fact that we don't have anyone else who can do this. 
 
 
You talk a lot of sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2018 at 8:57am
Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

I think the penny would drop if we could clone Marouane Fellaini 10 times, give out 10 Irish passports, play all of them in front of Darren Randolph, and finally wonder why we have 20% possession against Georgia when all of our players play for Manchester United.

We look at our players and the clubs they play for as if that tells the whole story a bit too much. We could have 11 Premier League players and it wouldn't necessarily tell us anything. I think the issue is that we have a lot of players who do a job for certain clubs, and are signed because "you need a player like that at your club". There are a lot of teams around the bottom of the Premier League or top of the Championship that could do with what James McClean offers - his pace, stamina and aggression. Similarly, lots of clubs have taken a punt on Shane Long for his willingness to run the channels, pace and physicality, David Meyler does the basics well and is a safe man to put into a midfield, Jon Walters is a big strong experienced old head with an eye for goal, Glenn Whelan saw off X amount of players bought to be his replacement at Stoke, and so on and so forth.

The problem arises when you try to build a team of players from that. Obviously as an international team we can't go out and buy players to build a balanced side and lots of international teams are unbalanced. But our players for the most part fulfil a defined role at their clubs which is more often than not that they are recruited for their work rate, pace, physical strength or defensive attributes - meaning it doesn't matter if our players play in the Premier League or wherever else, in terms of figuring out how good they will actually all perform for us when put together. In our strongest squad, there are very very few players who would be considered technically of a very high standard, particularly in midfield where it is most sorely needed. Two who would be of that quality (Brady and Hendrick) have not performed for us since 2016. One (Hourihane) has looked awful in the games he has played so far, though that isn't to say he can't turn it around.

It's telling that Declan Rice has been such a revelation for us for the simple fact that he is comfortable in possession, can pick a smart pass, and remains composed. He is a 19 year old centre half coming off his first full season of professional football that we are playing in midfield and looks set to be a key player in the Nations League because of the fact that we don't have anyone else who can do this. 
 
Some considered and valid points, but still doesn't not excuse the managements dereliction of duty in his lack of preparation and organization of the team. 
 
Some people need to take their Celtic tinted glasses off and see MON for what he is in 2018. Seville was along time ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2018 at 9:30am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

I think the penny would drop if we could clone Marouane Fellaini 10 times, give out 10 Irish passports, play all of them in front of Darren Randolph, and finally wonder why we have 20% possession against Georgia when all of our players play for Manchester United.

We look at our players and the clubs they play for as if that tells the whole story a bit too much. We could have 11 Premier League players and it wouldn't necessarily tell us anything. I think the issue is that we have a lot of players who do a job for certain clubs, and are signed because "you need a player like that at your club". There are a lot of teams around the bottom of the Premier League or top of the Championship that could do with what James McClean offers - his pace, stamina and aggression. Similarly, lots of clubs have taken a punt on Shane Long for his willingness to run the channels, pace and physicality, David Meyler does the basics well and is a safe man to put into a midfield, Jon Walters is a big strong experienced old head with an eye for goal, Glenn Whelan saw off X amount of players bought to be his replacement at Stoke, and so on and so forth.

The problem arises when you try to build a team of players from that. Obviously as an international team we can't go out and buy players to build a balanced side and lots of international teams are unbalanced. But our players for the most part fulfil a defined role at their clubs which is more often than not that they are recruited for their work rate, pace, physical strength or defensive attributes - meaning it doesn't matter if our players play in the Premier League or wherever else, in terms of figuring out how good they will actually all perform for us when put together. In our strongest squad, there are very very few players who would be considered technically of a very high standard, particularly in midfield where it is most sorely needed. Two who would be of that quality (Brady and Hendrick) have not performed for us since 2016. One (Hourihane) has looked awful in the games he has played so far, though that isn't to say he can't turn it around.

It's telling that Declan Rice has been such a revelation for us for the simple fact that he is comfortable in possession, can pick a smart pass, and remains composed. He is a 19 year old centre half coming off his first full season of professional football that we are playing in midfield and looks set to be a key player in the Nations League because of the fact that we don't have anyone else who can do this. 
Clap Brilliantly put.

This is very accurate.


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