Martin O'Neill...

Truce ?

The two of them are cut from the same cloth. The only differences I can see is Trapatoni repeatedly said we were sh*te whereas O’ Neil just touched on it. That and the small fact that O’ Neil motivates the players better. We play sh*te every now and then nowadays but we win some games that we don’t expect to. That’s as good as it gets for us as it’s dream stuff to believe we can actually win a trophy (bar the Carling Cup of course).

cardwizzard wrote: Citizen wrote: 9fingers wrote: BabbsBalls wrote: This thread is a f**king embarrassment to the site. This this This.

THIS

Bob Hoskins wrote: horsebox wrote: rolo wrote: Trap junior wrote: Baldrick wrote: However we have got good results now for a while under o Neill playing poorly many times so he is going against that theory. Well we have had one or two good results and a few bad results and relying on luck to bail us out. He has had a ridiculous amount of luck go his way to date.  Definitely more than your fair share. You've started spinning this "luck" thing since the draw. It's your new go-to dig at MON. The results weren't supporting your criticism, so you needed a change of tack. Timeline of Martin O'Nell's time in charge: Results were crap. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Results were good. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Slip up in Scotland. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Results were good again. Unreal result against Germany. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Beat Bosnia in Playoff. Trap Junior goes a little quiet, probably organising his trip to the Euros. Euros go well. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Qualifiers start off well. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Results are crap again. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te and a dinosaur and sh*te, new manager now. Cant stand this dinosaur. We're not going to qualify for the playoffs and he needs to go. Results are really good again. Qualify for playoffs. Trap Junior: MON is lucky. He's riding the arse of his luck. He is sh*te and lucky. A sh*te lucky manager. Pretty much a carbon copy of you and Trappatoni then? Nail on the head. I can never understand one defending the other and lacerating the other. We play utter dog sh*t football under both managers.

Edited by rolo - 18 Oct 2017 at 11:28pm

Bob Hoskins wrote: Nail on the head. I can never understand one defending the other and lacerating the other. We play utter dog sh*t football under both managers.

What's embarrassing is watching our national team play caveman football and being happy to continue to play this way for perpetuity. The ole ole merchants couldn't care less because they get to wear their Ireland morph suits on another trip.

Rolo if you can't acknowledge what Trappatoni achieved when we were at one of our lowest points post-Stan, then its pointless arguing. 

FAO: Trap Junior. You love posting articles about MON. Here's a great article. Dont mention luck again. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/11/ireland-giovanni-trapattoni-manager

Ireland bid farewell to Trapattoni after five aggravating years

The Italian's negative tactics showed how little he thought of his team, and there would have been no joy in seeing him continue

Paul Doyle

Wednesday 11 September 2013 16.13 BST

It was the absence of hope that killed you. The premise underlying almost everything Giovanni Trapattoni did as Republic of Ireland manager was that the players at his disposal were rubbish and could not be expected to beat anyone decent. That proved a self-fulfilling dogma. In his five years in charge Ireland did not win a single competitive match against a team ranked above them – and watching them set out as if convinced they never would became unbearable.

This was alienating and aggravating. Here was a population reared to believe in the potential heroism of the underdog abruptly being told to know its station. There is realism and then there is defeatism. Trapattoni sometimes talked big, but his tactics and selections betrayed how little he thought of Ireland. He saw the shambles that he inherited from Steve Staunton in 2008 and, in fairness, introduced a basic structural soundness, but he never saw beyond that, refused to contemplate a scenario in which Ireland could play not only with grit but also with a hint of wit.

Of course, Ireland boasts no geniuses who could have guaranteed better results and performances. A key difference between their World Cup qualifying group rivals Sweden and Austria is that the former have Zlatan Ibrahimovic and the latter have David Alaba, while Ireland have no one even close to that calibre. Still, over the past five years the county has had a clutch of players who have deserved better recognition from their manager. Wes Hoolahan, Robbie Brady, Andy Reid, Shane Long, Steven Reid and Seamus Coleman – hardly world-class, but surely worthy of more astute nurturing when we consider some of the lesser talents that Trapattoni indulged instead.

It is fitting that his last act as manager, during Tuesday's baleful defeat in Austria, was to introduce Conor Sammon as a substitute, while Hoolahan and Brady were ignored like untrustworthy dilettante, with their highfalutin' notions of passing and playing what was in front of them rather than what was drummed into them by a manager who remained stubborn enough to believe that things would turn out as he foresaw no matter what was unfolding before his eyes. His inability to alter games with his substitutions or tactical changes reflected a perverse intransigence so strong as to be almost admirable.

He lasted so long because, in addition to organisational cohesion and engaging charisma, he enjoyed an attribute that the country's best manager in recent times, Mick McCarthy, famously lacked: luck. Outrageous fortune in the form of several beneficial refereeing decisions helped Ireland get to the brink of the 2010 World Cup finals, which is why it was so ironic that the team's most accomplished performance in his entire reign – the 1-1 draw in Paris in the play-offs – was undone by Thierry Henry's infamous handball.

It turned out that the first leg of that play-off – the lacklustre 1-0 defeat in Dublin – was a truer indicator of what Trapattoni would bring, a bleak passivity that made visiting teams surprisingly welcome and home supporters uncharacteristically subdued. Difficult to beat away, Ireland found it impossible to win key games at home. In the past Ireland could at least inflict a hostile reception on visitors, but under Trapattoni, Russia, Sweden and Germany all helped themselves to comfortable victories while Austria, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Montenegro and others earned easy draws. Trapattoni's greatest achievement with Ireland was made possible by the kindness of the draw – the Euro 2012 play-off pitting Ireland against an inexperienced Estonia team who immediately imploded – and the manager turned that into a monumental humiliation by going to the Euros with the wrong squad and one ill-fitting plan.

On a personal level Trapattoni came across as a driven and affable man with great integrity, which is why there is no joy in reporting his departure. But on a professional level, the sheer desolateness of his vision meant there would have certainly been no joy in watching him continue.

As for his successor, there is no outstanding candidate, no supernatural being who could make Ireland certainties to reach major finals and not look like goofy gatecrashers. But the first criterion that the Football Association of Ireland should set is that, just as the Italian's rigidity provided respite from Staunton's chaos, the new manager must salve the damage done by Trapattoni's nihilism. Brian McDermott, for instance, has a record of forging well-balanced and enterprising sides from modest resources. "The big thing I said to the players is you have to get on the ball and make things happen," he said after Leeds United's recent loss to Queens Park Rangers. "Just try something different." Only by that sort of risk-taking and a lot of luck can a country with little resources, and a deep systemic failure reflected in a largely unloved domestic league, enjoy international success.

rolo wrote: Bob Hoskins wrote: horsebox wrote: rolo wrote: Trap junior wrote: Baldrick wrote: However we have got good results now for a while under o Neill playing poorly many times so he is going against that theory. Well we have had one or two good results and a few bad results and relying on luck to bail us out. He has had a ridiculous amount of luck go his way to date.  Definitely more than your fair share. You've started spinning this "luck" thing since the draw. It's your new go-to dig at MON. The results weren't supporting your criticism, so you needed a change of tack. Timeline of Martin O'Nell's time in charge: Results were crap. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Results were good. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Slip up in Scotland. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Results were good again. Unreal result against Germany. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Beat Bosnia in Playoff. Trap Junior goes a little quiet, probably organising his trip to the Euros. Euros go well. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Qualifiers start off well. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te. Results are crap again. Trap Junior: MON is sh*te and a dinosaur and sh*te, new manager now. Cant stand this dinosaur. We're not going to qualify for the playoffs and he needs to go. Results are really good again. Qualify for playoffs. Trap Junior: MON is lucky. He's riding the arse of his luck. He is sh*te and lucky. A sh*te lucky manager. Pretty much a carbon copy of you and Trappatoni then? Nail on the head. I can never understand one defending the other and lacerating the other. We play utter dog sh*t football under both managers.  Nail on the head my bollix. One manager has been making records tumble, winning games against higher ranked teams, bringing us a victory at a major tournament... The other did well in his first campaign, with a far stronger team,  but ultimately we drew the whole time.  To state that we merely " play utter dog sh*t football under both managers" is not telling the true story.

How is coming second in the 2nd campaign, suddenly not as good as coming second in the first campaign!

Finishing second is a very good achievement. Period.

What matters is the points total at the end of the campaign.





Edited by horsebox - 18 Oct 2017 at 11:47pm