Martin O'Neill... |
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Banjaxed
Liam Brady Joined: 21 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 2965 |
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That was O'Neill's reaction to the under 17's. Makes you wonder what we'd be waking up to this morning if that happened to the senior team in a quarter final of the Euros
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Offline Points: 37956 |
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Never mind MON it would be Roy's reaction in that scenario that would be interesting
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25100 |
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Exactly what one of the lads in work just said
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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greenlad
Liam Brady Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1696 |
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Thought it was very unprofessional of mon, he needs to read up on the rules.
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Trigboy 10
Liam Brady Joined: 02 May 2015 Status: Online Points: 1326 |
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Edited by Trigboy 10 - 15 May 2018 at 1:40pm |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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They weren't though...
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DeclanDaly
Ray Houghton Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Location: Boston, USA Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
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there’s a good article in the Guardian on Southgate’s England squad, and this jumped out at me. It evokes that “expert in failure” quote from Mourinho a couple of years ago:
““We talk a lot about experience. But if that experience is a bad one it can be damaging.” No England manager has said this before either. And it’s true.” I’d like to see a similar mentality from O’Neill in the next couple of years. What really is the value of experience in our squad, when the quality of those experiences are negligible?
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You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995" |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Not in any way a valid comparison, for a large variety of reasons. When Southgate speaks of turning to youth, he is talking about the likes of Sterling, a league winner and scorer of 23 goals in the EPL this season, Alexander Arnold, a CL finalist at 19 years of age, Pickford,an established EPL keeper at 24, Dele Alli an experienced EPL midfielder for a top club at age 22, Kane, a serial golden boot contender in his short career at 24 and so on & so on.
If MON were minded to turn to youth, who would he turn to exactly ? Declan Rice and eh, Declan Rice. On here & nearly nowhere else fan forum wise, media wise, or mates down the pub wise, there is nearly something I would describe as a fetish for players who don't play for us, whether that is limited championship players who, when eventually called, turn out to be much the same as the limited championship players they've replaced, or young lads that, unlike some of Southgate's crew, have achieved absolutely nothing in the game only hold down a place in a mid table championship team, sat on the bench for a few EPL games, or get a couple of goals or assists in an even lower league. This is meant to be the elite level for Irish footballers after all, not a development squad. Anything else is just more fantasy stuff, there isn't a manager out there given a similar pick to us would do much differently to MON in selecting a squad or team, whatever about a different playing style. MON has named nearly everyone available to him for the next 3 games and without looking, I wouldn't think there are more than 5 players under 25 playing at a senior level for an EPL or championship club first team. The players aren't there, despite how much anyone wants them to be. Next, MON has done his bit as regards changing the old guard, JOS, Murph & Wes are gone, and he hasn't exactly been radiantly positive about Whelan or McGeady's long term prospects either. Walters is the only other one approaching the age lads start thinking about retirement, but with our options, everyone understands why the manager will want him to continue another bit, and the player himself is happy to. The 'bad experience' comment doesn't hold up as a comparison either, again, Southgate is referring to highly experienced players, and highly rated ones, that went to multiple championships with England & failed/had poor tournaments individually & collectively, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry and lads like that. Our experienced players went to a Euros in 2016, that is about as positive as it gets for any Irish player, just getting there. So while say, the Belgium game or the entirety of Poland 2012 were bad experiences for our players, the rest of France 2016 is as positive as it got for any Irish international since 2002, so it isn't the same thing whatsoever. Finally, for all the new players we recently named, realistically, if all were fit & in form, there will still be minimal change to MON's 1st team for the Sept games. MON's first choices will be along the lines of; Randolph Coleman Duffy Clark or K Long Ward (unless one of Stevens/Cunningham or Williams really impresses in meantime) Brady or McClean McCarthy Rice (deliberately putting him in midfield) Arter or Hourihane (again, maybe Browne or Meyler has a chance here too) O'Dowda (or Long playing on wing, or the one of McClean/Brady not playing on the left, or Doherty playing right wing) Walters (or Maguire or Hogan if they make an impression) |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9561 |
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That's about the most intelligent thing I've ever heard Southgate say. It'd be nice to see O'Neill adopt a similar mindset, albeit tampered by the fact that we have a much smaller player pool. That'll never happen of course, but one can dream.
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We're decent enough..
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Double Maxim
Robbie Keane Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Location: Sunderland Status: Offline Points: 42979 |
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Excellent post spot on.
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Double Maxim without doubt the greatest drink in the world
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DeclanDaly
Ray Houghton Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Location: Boston, USA Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
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Thanks for the considered response. If the end result is failure (which is inevitably is), what’s the difference? You should read the Southgate article. The thrust is, he picks a team for the system, rather than the players with the greatest experience. It’s not a revolutionary idea. Most countries have been doing it for years. I’m not a MON doubter, but now the Dennis O’Brien money is gone, we’re probably heading for a new era with senior management. It wouldn’t surprise me to see one of the under age coaches under consideration in the future, much in the same way that Southgate came to the England job.
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You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995" |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Deise
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The Huntacha
Roy Keane Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 12798 |
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Was at Dalymount tonight with Keane and about 8 other people decked out in FAI gear. About 10 minutes left, O'Neill, Keane and someone else decide to leave and head towards the exit near the tunnel. The Paul's Artane kids clock who it is, and start running after him. O'Neill turns around and signs a few autographs for them while Keane keeps walking
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Jimmy Bullard - "Favorite band? Elastic."
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Offline Points: 37956 |
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Classic Roy
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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First of all, define failure in the context of the Southgate article and your wish that MON ''would adopt the same mindset''. I think they are 2 different things just to begin with. Failure for England is not getting beyond 2nd round of a major tournament, or not getting out of a group, as they would probably see QF's as realistically within their compass, all going well for them. In that regard, they have failed at the last few tournaments. Failure for us in not getting to the thing at all. In that sense, yes, all our players have failed in the last campaign, but most of those same players were part of the greatest success we have had in 14 years in the tournament before that. So in an Irish context, they have known both success and failure. I did read the Southgate article, and it makes sense in the context of Southgate's England selections. He is basically saying what's the point in having Smalling, Hart & Wilshere when all they've known is (relative) failure at major tournaments, pick Pope, Alex Arnold and Loftus Cheek instead. That's where MON's difficulties start. We don't have an Arnold, Pope or Loftus Cheek, we don't even have championship equivalents of them, never mind EPL ones. The contrast couldn't possibly be starker. We had 18 players that appeared in the EPL last year, 2 of whom, Stevie Ireland & Delaney, don't play for us, so that's 16 straight away. Being in the first team squad, if not necessarily team, of an EPL outfit is more or less automatic entry to the Irish squad, and it has been that way for a long time now. There are more players in the championship, but who exactly is MON overlooking ? When a 31 year old Shaun Williams playing for a mid table team is in the frame, even the outer reaches of it, and I have not seen much of him or have anything against him, the signs are that talent is thin enough on the ground. Even a fella like Hourihane, who is fairly experienced at that level & performing well for his club, has struggled in an Irish jersey in his few caps so far. I'm not particularly an MON fan, but he has done as much as he can do as regards trying to source players. He called in Rice ever before he was a WHU regular, he tried to call up Reading's Kelly on numerous occasions, he brought in O'Dowda when he was still at Oxford, he called up Kevin Long before he was in the frame at Burnley, may have helped get Arter, Hogan & Robinson to declare for us, called up Horgan and Boyle while still in LOI, go back as far as Cyrus Christie and he came in from out of the blue, nobody knew about him at that time, the only one he was slow about was Seanie Maguire, and that probably more to do with MON's reservations about LOI than the player himself. To answer your question about what's the difference if we are gong to fail anyway- the answer is we fail bigger, as most of our fringe players are either ordinary with little to choose between them (which of the 3 LB's in the current squad is the best player, Williams, Cunningham or Stevens for example), or they simply do not have enough experience at a decent level. I'll ask again, who exactly should MON be turning to if he is looking for youthful Irish players ? I'd be critical of MON for a lot of reasons, mainly the style of play and his lack of tactical nous, but he isn't responsible for our lack of options, and has actually managed to increase them during his time with us. It's just that the quality of player available isn't noticeably better than the ones that are already there or just left. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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planning
Ray Houghton Football version of Comical Ali. Joined: 17 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3836 |
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He is responsible for the lack of options. He has an entire league to call upon here at home, but won't play them just because they play in it. As he saw with Sean Maguire, that policy is a mistake, while much of the current side came through the LOI ranks. Why does he go to LOI games, when he has absolutely no intention of selecting any of the players?
As for the greatest success in 14 years, beating the Italy B team in the last minute might be considered a success. Great is probably stretching it. We lost half the matches, conceded double the amount of goals scored, were battered by the quarter finalists and limped out quietly with 10 men, with 2 whole weeks of it still to run. It was an average performance by an average team. Most teams at the tournament got as far as we did, most of them contributed more to the tournament, while some of them have smaller populations, and player pools than we have.
Edited by planning - 19 May 2018 at 8:08am |
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willmcc83
Davey Langan Joined: 07 Jun 2011 Status: Offline Points: 996 |
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What LOI players would have changed that? Would you have played a 2016 Maguire ahead of Long?
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Time To Get Behind Mick & The Team
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Banjaxed
Liam Brady Joined: 21 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 2965 |
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Early doors but O'Neill currently 2nd favourite for Derby job (@3/1)
I assume this is a non runner. He has signed the contract, hasn't he? Or does he have a clause...?
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