Martin O'Neill... |
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kearney304
Liam Brady Joined: 25 Feb 2014 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1992 |
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I believe this is what you said to be exact:
If he got us a playoff I'd accept it but we aren't going to get that barring a fluke series of results now. No qualification, no playoff I think this is what you said. You are so indecisive regarding O'Neill. You say he won't get a result or he won't do this. Then he does it and you change to what he didn't do in Georgia or at home to Austria. You don't like MON - that is fine. So far he has achieved his target for the Irish team. Qualify for Euros Qualify out of group Next campaign - make playoff Go to Russia - Sure there will be a statue of him if we get to Russia, maybe rename a stand at the Aviva. But mark my words - even if we make it to Russia - you will be beating a different drum about how he got us there.
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39833 |
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See the bit ''barring a fluke series of results'' (i.e. Scotland results had to go our way in 2 games). This quote was also in regards his new contract I believe, and yes I would begrudgingly accept he deserves a new contract based on the result of finishing 2nd despite his horrible approach to the game. Again I am not indecisive on him at all. If they do build a statue of him it will be made out of granite because he is from the stone age |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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Incorrect. A small number from any number of potential results had to go our way. It just happened to be those two that did. Now, we know if they hadn't, that we wouldn't have made the playoffs, but there were plenty of other results that could have went our way. Before the last week of games, we were not relying solely on Scotland. That may have been how it transpired, but it's not how it was beforehand. The odds on at least one of them happening was always decent.
I have no doubt that at certain times you were berating the fact Whelan was starting and Meyler wasn't. He then starts Meyler and you're still not happy. Making a mistake is not necessarily a disaster; adhering to a mistake after it has been found out is much worse. Would you rather he had stuck with Whelan? Also, his captain had his leg snapped into little pieces in March. That's why he had to go to backups. If anyone has a scattergun approach, it's not O'Neill. Your blinkers are hilarious. |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39833 |
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A small number? 4 games had to go our way. An accumulator bet. Yeah it wasn't just Scotland but no one else bailed us out did they? We had to have 2 games from that group go our way. And 2 from our group.
Secondly I have never once said I wasn't happy with Meyler starting so you are making stuff up now. What I am saying is how come O'Neill didn't see him as a regular starter a few months back but now finds himself captain?? Surely the captaincy would go to a more senior player while Meyler beds himself in. How come he is immediately captain? How come last month O'Neill and Keane were praising Whelan to the hilt and saying what a warrior he was yet then drop him after his next game and take the captaincy off him? How come he was a warrior then but is muck now? Have they never seen him play before? No I am quite consistent with my views SD I'm afraid. Go sing your ole ole song and worship your dear leader because you are like a cult member getting defensive because someone questions the dear leader. Edited by Trap junior - 12 Oct 2017 at 7:57pm |
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planning
Ray Houghton Football version of Comical Ali. Joined: 17 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3836 |
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No it most certainly is not. All big nights are, are getting 1-3 points. You need 15-20 more in a campaign to qualify. And qualification is the raison d'etre of the whole exercise. We've won in Wales before, it's not an unprecedented achievement, nor are the opposition much good, as they showed. They have Barnsley and Bristol Rovers journeymen in their squad, that's the standard of personnel the coach was terrified of facing home and away. We could be facing Real, Barca, and Juventus players from now on, how are we going to cope? Watching through our fingers? The win over the Germans is probably long since forgotten by them. They still won the group and comfortably made the semi finals. Losing in Lansdowne is a mere p.s. of their campaign. |
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22173 |
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How many of them started or played though? Why do you feel the need to compare Ireland with Germany the current World Champions? |
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"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"
Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39833 |
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ted
Here are my quotes from the Bale thread I started https://forum.ybig.ie/bale-out-of-wales-2-last-games_topic55688_page1.html ''The tatties are going to beat the taafies (pg 2)
''Wales have a 0% win ratio in games without Bale since 2014'' (pg 4)
''The chances of us beating them have just risen about 40%'' (pg5) ''Yes but with him absent we may only have to score once to win. Had he
played we might have conceded one or two making our task impossible.
Winning starts with conceding less goals.'' (pg 6) So yeah I was convinced Ireland were going to lose Damn scattergun thinking again from me |
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Stickittotheman
Liam Brady Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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Ah ffs this is hyothetical. The campaigm was over 10 games and at the end of it we were 2nd and qualified for the play off. No amount of ifs buts or maybes can change that. So what 4 games went our way in the last round of games. They did. Its over. |
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Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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OnTheOneRoad
Ray Houghton Joined: 06 Nov 2014 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 4190 |
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We needed to get lucky and have two games from our group go our way? You mean our ones? That we went and won? I accept that it was out of our hands for a while but it's disingenuous to embellish an argument about how lucky we were by adding our own results into results that had to go our way. You're worrying far too much about what o'Neill says not matching what were all thinking. Would you want him to go "actually you know what , Glenn is sh*te" or tell everyone we may as well just turn up against Moldova to get the win? What kind of manager would that be? By that logic did you think it was becoming of a football representative of this country in 2012 when Delaney was dancing a little jig at the draw when we got Estonia? Because he wasn't "talking nonsense about how hard it'll be , it's Estonia ffs" and so on Edited by OnTheOneRoad - 12 Oct 2017 at 8:26pm |
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No thank you Turkish......I'm sweet enough
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Terzino
500 Club la la la Joined: 06 Apr 2016 Status: Offline Points: 665 |
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I think giving Ireland an 8/10 for the Wales games and a 2/10 for the Georgia game is all down to the result of the games, and not about judging those matches on anything else.
In Georgia we played a more effective long-ball game than we did in Cardiff. We created more chances, and if we had've won the game the Georgians couldn't have complained. The Georgians had all the possession in the first half especially, but did little with it. They scored from about the only chance they created in the whole game. In Cardiff we gave the Welsh all the possession for the entire game, but they failed to score. In Tbilisi we squandered lots of chances, while we scored from our one and only chance in Cardiff. The difference between an 8/10 and a 2/10 was not that much in reality. And this is my criticism of O'Neill. When he plays the long-ball game only, sometimes with just one striker up front and with no attempt to mix up our play, the plan is so rigid that everything has to go our way for us to win. For this tactic to work we must play a near flawless game. We must defend magnificently, use what limited possession we have to the maximum and score from perhaps as little as one chance on goal. Wales was a flawless game, but I think it's unrealistic to expect our players to repeat that kind of performance again. Edited by Terzino - 12 Oct 2017 at 8:43pm |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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On the first point, we had any number of things that would have worked. Obviously we needed to win our own games, but in each of the others, there was a time when we needed only one achievable result. Croatia and Ukraine to draw (which was certainly possible) Greece not to beat Cyprus (came within one goal) Scotland not to beat Slovenia (which is the one that worked) It's nonsense to say we needed a four way accumulator. We needed one result from three to go our way; it's pretty much the exact opposite of an accumulator. I'm even leaving aside the Northern Ireland group, where one other result might have helped. On the second point, re-read what I said. What I said was that I was sure there was time you were calling for Meyler to start; now he has started, you're still not happy. It's not that you're not happy with Meyler starting; it's that I imagine you were calling for it after the Austria away game, now O'Neill has seen what you probably perceived to have been a mistake, and you're not even happy with that. You also haven't identified who else you would have given the captain's armband to... I doubt it would have been Ward, Brady or Hendrick, none of whom really seem like captains. Meyler is not a bad choice. It's very easy to be negative; where's the alternative, and why would they have been a better option than Meyler? In terms of saying Whelan was a warrior etc etc, I'm sure he was well motivated by it. O'Neill is clearly an excellent man manager and superb motivator; so what if he called Whelan a warrior and then drops him? It clearly hasn't affected Whelan or any other player at all. His motivational skills leave nothing to be desired. One reply to your last paragraph: grow up. Edited by SuperDave84 - 12 Oct 2017 at 9:07pm |
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Garngad
Ronnie Whelan Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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By the same token Brazil abandoned the beautiful game after no wins in 24 years though, the 1994 world cup winners were not easy on the eye
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horsebox
Robbie Keane Born n bred in darndale. Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 34860 |
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I'm thinking the 4 way accumulator was before the last 2 games i.e. Ater the loss to Serbia and before we played Molova, that's when a number of results went our way. Open to correction on this. Irish route to playoff (1) Beat Moldova (2) Bosnia take 4pts from last 2 games in Group H (3) Greece drop points in Cyprus in Group H (4) Beat Wales Edited by horsebox - 12 Oct 2017 at 9:24pm |
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It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39833 |
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We needed 4 results to go our way before the Moldova match. I believe the odds of it coming off and making the playoffs were 16% according to a stat I think you posted up here. If this is what you posted then you are flip flopping. I think you yourself said we were f**ked. Now you are saying it was all quite likely. Now back to MON. I want a manager who knows what he is doing. Regarding Meyler. Imagine if Luke Shaw suddenly came into the United team and immediately being made captain. Its bizarre. McClean is captain material and a regular starter before Meyler came in. Most managers might have given it to him. I'm not saying Meyler isn't captain material. In fact I think he is a very hearty player if technically mediocre but its not logical to for a player not deemed good enough by MON to suddenly ascend from benchwarmer to captain. MON is an excellent motivator. I always said he was going back to when he was being touted as manager. The problem is that's all he has got and that was my firm belief then and its an even firmer belief now. He's a one trick pony. When the players arent at fever pitch motivation, which is most of our games you get terrible performances and his tactics become exposed to even minnow nations. We had Moldova and Georgia dominating us for large periods of the games. 90% of performances under MON are poor in fact. Look at this campaign and honestly evaluate the performances game by game. As for Whelan I think he and MON were saying how integral he was to the team and then he is gone the very next game. Laughable. Have they not seen him play for 4 years now? Are they only copping on now? If so they should go straight into the thick thread. Another thing is that he seemed totally unaware that winning our last two games wasn't enough, that we had to rely on other results. He still didn't know days after the Serbia game. Bizarre. |
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Fruice
Liam Brady Joined: 22 Nov 2014 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1260 |
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Your wronging O Neill calling him a one trick pony.
He got his tactics spot on the last night. From the time Allen went off the last day they went for it .we finished the half very strong as a result of pushing up on them more and pressureing them into mistakes which ultimately lead to our goal. And then he was confident we could see it home. Also you don't do aswell as he did at club level if your a one trick pony. |
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doherty
Jack Charlton Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 7705 |
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22173 |
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I'm sure O'Neill wanted some sort of continuity regarding the captaincy.
With all due respect his hands were tied to a large extent. McClean was suspended for the Moldova game, Whelan on the back of a below par performance against Georgia was replaced in the team by Meyler who got MOTM against Serbia. O'Shea is a bench warmer, Coleman was injured as was Walters! Also with Shane Long's worrying club form he may not have been an automatic choice to start against Moldova. So Meyler was probably one of three choices who O'Neill would have fancied as captain, the others being Clark and Duffy. All in all is it a big deal? No.
Edited by Green Devil - 12 Oct 2017 at 10:16pm |
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"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"
Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan |
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doherty
Jack Charlton Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 7705 |
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