Martin O'Neill... |
Post Reply | Page <1 9192939495 419> |
Author | ||
Terzino
500 Club la la la Joined: 06 Apr 2016 Status: Offline Points: 665 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Normally Walters plays on the right as a wing-forward / winger and we knock it long to him, and he contests headers with Long hovering about, hoping to get on to a flick or a pass. However, against Austria, Walters played centrally with Brady on the right. My guess is that Brady was meant to support Walters, but he's not used to that role, and the plan failed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but after Austria took the lead, Brady was switched to the left-wing and McClean was moved more centrally to help out Walters. So I think the plan was always to play it long. This would explain the omission of Hoolahan. He is the only player we have who is guaranteed to look for the ball and then, when he gets it, pass it forward. If the intention was to play the ball on the deck, or at least mix it up a bit, then he had to have been selected. |
||
Sponsored Links | ||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I am not sure about that, neither Arter or Hendrick would have been seen, in the build up to the game at least, as players suited to direct football. I think we were guilty of overestimating them, like what we do with Wes. As much as I can appreciate what the latter brings to us I can also understand why he doesn't start and that is because he gives the ball away. A lot and often in dangerous areas. I don't think starting Hendrick over him equates to long ball football. The problem is when he isn't arsed and Arter has gone walk about we were left shapeless and disorganised, he tried to change it, as you suggested, but it only made things worse. It was only when Murphy came on that we became more organised and structured.
|
||
irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25099 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Some arse cream required for 'I'm not anti O'Neill' Planning Also there's a difference between having a better team and simply having better betters now or before. Trap had a slightly better panel and even McCarthy did with Robbie Keane, Duffy and Keano, Given in their prime but we have a better team in the sense that we finish games stronger than any previous Ireland side ever did IMO. Would rather us be slow starters in games and finish them strongly as we don't gave the capability to dominate games or even keep possession tbh. Edited by irishmufc - 20 Jun 2017 at 6:27pm |
||
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
|
||
planning
Ray Houghton Football version of Comical Ali. Joined: 17 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3836 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
No it isn't. That group had Russia at it's head. This group has Wales. Everyone wanted them as top seeds. Nobody wants Russia in their group, let alone top seeds. And nobody wants them in Group A of the coming World Cup, as they know the scale of the task in front of them. Slovakia had just knocked Italy, the full strength Italy side out of the World Cup (compared to the B side we scraped past) and won in Moscow. That was the quality of opposition in that group. There's nothing like that level of strength in this one. The poor home performance against Slovakia that gets dragged up over and over again put us critically ahead of them on head to head. The similiar poor home performances against Poland and Scotland put us behind both on head to head, and the poor one shot home performances against Austria and Wales with 10 men, may still bring about serious consequences.
If that is what you want, well hehe, you'll be waiting. What I do is hold his record to the same scrutiny Trap's was, and if you don't like it, well now you know what I had to put up with when he was in charge. Because we were promised a revolution from someone who "understood Irish football culture". What we got is a long way from that, and I hold the hypocrisy of that to account. |
||
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
|
||
irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25099 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
'well hehe.you'll be waiting'
I don't remember you ever posting in that giddy manner before. At least now that and the ludicrous 'I'm not anti O'Neill' line shows that you're just one in a long list of boring wums on this forum. I'd have a modicum of more respect if you were just a deluded Trap fan that can't see any wrong/mistakes in what he did. At least that's honest if misguided. And you don't hold O'Neill to the same scrutiny as Trap as you've never criticised Trap and have always criticised O'Neill. Just another look at me, look at me daddy wum when everyone else was looking forward to going to France you wouldnt take a chance because of ISIS Whether you're wumming or were being serious, it's still pathetic Edited by irishmufc - 20 Jun 2017 at 7:52pm |
||
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
|
||
Terzino
500 Club la la la Joined: 06 Apr 2016 Status: Offline Points: 665 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The fact that the two of them had a limited impact on the game perhaps proves your point that they are not suited to a longball game. However, they're both physically stronger and more able runners than Hoolahan, so I guess that's why they were selected ahead of him. Hoolahan is prone to giving the ball away but I suppose that is the risk you take. If longball under O'Neill is about taking few risks, then the result also means few chances created. Wes is the player most likely to look for and play a pass, and sometimes that pass is all you need to unlock a defence. I can't imagine that either Arter or Hendrick were instructed by O'Neill to show for the ball but didn't. This has been going on for too long now for it to be anything other than the plan. Hendrick's best game for us was against Sweden, where he worked well from deep and pushed forward with the ball, aided by Brady on the left. He has completely lost that form, but is that because of himself or is it O'Neill's tactics? And I agree that Murphy has done well as a target man for us in the last year. We played a 4-3-3 against Italy at the Euros. We had Murphy up the middle and Long on the right wing and it worked. But with Brady there against Austria it didn't. So I think it shows one of the flaws in O'Neill's plans. He wants to play direct but, as we saw against Austria, sometimes we aren't fully committed to it for it to work in the manner that it should. Using Murphy and partnering him with either Walters or Long has worked, but this may mean having to change the team around and dropping one of Ward, Brady or McClean. |
||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I don't think we wanted to play direct against Austria, it was merely because Arter and Hendrick were anonymous that we ended up playing aimless punts, many of them ending up in the stands. I think it was very much a case of Arter and Hendrick either not showing for the ball and not being good enough on it.
I too would have started Wes but I also see the risks he brings, it isn't just as simple as 'he is that kind of player', it is that he finds himself coming deep and losing it in positions we end up very exposed from. Many of us felt that the eleven on the pitch could have won that game with Austria and I am sure Martin did too! I think the reality is that we have a dearth of midfield players of the required level and ability for us to go anything but direct. McCarthy, Arter, Hendrick and Hoolahan all flatter to deceive in terms of what we expect from them and the one midfielder we have who regularly meets expectations is derided for doing so! There is also the problem of Robbie Brady, another who flatters to deceive but, to be fair to him, it is quite clear that his position is wide left, either of a flat four or a wider five, anywhere else and he looks completely lost. It then becomes a question of getting your best eleven on the pitch or the best team. Based on form I would drop Brady, especially as his set-pieces are deteriorating rapidly. I think the problem is he wants to mix it up, I think he knows we have the players to play direct but it was well know that Trap's style was part of the reason for his exit. I just think he needs to be a little bit braver over the next two games. I don't think direct football is automatically negative football and, besides all that, the most important thing now is to make Russia. Everything else is secondary.
|
||
Butch
Ray Houghton Joined: 16 Oct 2014 Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
Terzino
500 Club la la la Joined: 06 Apr 2016 Status: Offline Points: 665 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think our players have the ability, but their form is all over the place.
In terms of consistency you know exactly what you will get from Walters, McClean, Long, and Whelan. The rest are unpredictable, especially those who play in the middle. Brady has been moved all over the place, and I don't think it has done him any good. I agree with you about his best position, but that is currently occupied by McClean. Longball is fine as a tactic when it works. However it is self-defeating when it doesn't. Not only are you giving the opposition the ball for little or no effort on their behalf, but you are also running your forwards into the ground, and draining the atmosphere out of the stadium. And in this regard O'Neill can be as inconsistent as our midfield. Sometimes we mix it up, but other times we are longball, longball, longball even when it's obviously not working. |
||
deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'm thinking along the lines of ''IGNORE FORUM'' MON's remit is a pretty simple one- qualify for tournaments. He is 1 from 1 so far, looking not too bad in this one so far. I don't recall either MON or the FAI ever saying anything about the style of football, usually when a club or team appoint a manager, they tend to leave that bit to him. Neither do I recall anybody claiming when we got him that it would revolutionise the style of play, if anything at all, the realistic expectation was he would pick a team/s that would have a bit more energy about them than some of Traps later efforts. This has generally been true, though not always. As for Trap this, Trap that, it has been flogged to death. This next point has been made during the last few pages dozens of times, and has yet to be responded to by all the lads who want to see Trap back or MON sacked or us playing like Barcelona or whatever it is they seem to want; The players had lost confidence in him. That is a very very simple point, and very difficult to argue against (so far, nobody has) but a crucial one all the same. The day could well come when this will happen MON too, I think it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility, but it hasn't happened yet, nor does there seem to be any signs it will any time soon, so on we go. This isn't a hell of a lot higher than TNC standard trolling, no issue with not liking MON's football, but tis just going around in a circle- MON negative football is OK, Trap negative football bad, why is this. There are 3 main reasons, the aforementioned belief of the players, the fact MON is currently getting results, Trap did not in his last campaign and last, he has a willingness to change systems or personnel during games that aren't going well that Trap simply didn't. No mysteries here, ye can type or rephrase the question any amount of times, the answers are still the same. |
||
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
|
||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think you are giving them more credit than they deserve, in some cases at least. Anyone who gets to this level of football has some ability, showing it every now and again is not much good to anyone. We have, as you say, a few consistent performers, even if I wouldn't classify Long as one, but by and large we have a limited team and that is why they are unpredictable. Average players can raise their games temporarily and that is what we are reliant on and why MON suits us. I am not sure that MON has ever really persevered with same tactic throughout a game when it hasn't been working. Sure, there have been times when his changes made the situation worse, but I think of few games where the tactics have been the same the whole way through. That is neither a complaint or a compliment, I just think labelling him as solely long ball is wrong. In many ways I feel we would be better if we at least started games that way but I think MON believes he can raise their game all the time. I would suggest that in contrast to his predecessor he often has too much faith in their ability! On that note I would agree with Deise above, this obsession lads have with Trap is just bizarre and unfunny. To be fair, one lad has just gone off on one and anyone with an iota of intelligence should ignore the other clown.
|
||
kearney304
Liam Brady Joined: 25 Feb 2014 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1992 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Why bother? He told me that Ireland were advised "not to play ball" Then said this - f you want evidence, look at all the wild rash kickouts and elbows that went in the last two home games, and the amount of hoofball in both. That's not accident, that is clearly an instruction from the top. You could never accuse Trap's teams of being full of dirty players. Imagine that - a new level of argument. Ireland are now dirty players Honestly between him and the other fella. I'm just done. I think I was at every away in Traps campaign and it was usually a good trip followed by sh*t underwhelming football. Slovakia away when we drew when they asked us to beat them. This campaign for me I am actually excited to watch Ireland again. Yes I know sometimes we are flat but I actually believe before a ball kicks that we won't be beaten. |
||
kearney304
Liam Brady Joined: 25 Feb 2014 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1992 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Good solid post. All Irish fans just want to qualify. It's as simple as that. Play to your strengths. I think the Uruguay game gave MON belief we could do it on the big stage. The lads couldn't for whatever reason. On we go. 6 points from the next 2 games and the main haters will crawl back in to where they came from.
|
||
horsebox
Robbie Keane Born n bred in darndale. Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 34892 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You don't do irony do you? |
||
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to |
||
Stoked Up
Jack Charlton Joined: 22 Oct 2009 Location: España Status: Offline Points: 6674 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Echoing Deise316's comments somewhat.
I don't recall the remit for any Irish manager being anything other than qualify for tournaments and then do as well as they can when they got there. It's a load of nonsense that some people here are saying that the current regime were expected to have us playing in a more fluid style, no more than it was a requirement of the previous regime. Trap was let go because of our failure to make the last WC or at least the playoffs. O'Neill will prosper or fail by the same yardstick. Comparing the the two managers style of play is futile as they were both handed pretty much the same standard of players to work with. Whilst Trap had the slight advantage of some ageing stars, Mon appears to have a lesser hand, but the up and coming bunch could yet prove to be of better overall quality, depending on how they progress. |
||
irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25099 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Good post. As long as results are positive supporters will put up with the manager. The Trap apologists on here are trying to make the case that O'Neill gets an easier ride. You can only make that judgement if O'Neill's results start to decline and we either get embarrassed in Russia should we qualify and/or have a poor campaign for euro 2020. Whatever about the media or fairweather fans Trap was still viewed on positively by the majority of actual supporters while things were going well. There were reservations with selections and style of play but there was no witchhunt among match going supporters up to Euro 2012 IMO. The anti-Trap crowd would do well to remember where we were when he took over and O'Neill has built on that. |
||
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
|
||
rolo
Moderator Group Joined: 05 Aug 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9202 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I dont think you can just disregard it that easily tho. It's not "pretty much the same" and Trap did not have the "slight advantage of some ageing stars" When Trap got the job, Robbie Keane was 27, when O'Neill got the job, Keane was 33. When Trap got the job, Damien Duff was 28, when O'Neill got the job, Duff had retired. When Trap got the job, Richard Dunne was 28, when O'Neill got the job, Dunne had retired, or was about to. Either way he never played for O'Neill. When Trap got the job, Wes Hoolahan was 25, when O'Neill got the job, Hoolahan was 31. When Trap got the job, Shay Given was 31 (hardly ageing for a goalkeeper), when O'Neill got the job, Given was 37. When Trap got the job, John O'Shea was 26, when O'Neill got the job, O'Shea was 32. Only fair to call it as it is. |
||
"I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that"
|
||
horsebox
Robbie Keane Born n bred in darndale. Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 34892 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
And that's why we were 2nd place in the WC group, unbeaten with the second highest amount of points ever
|
||
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to |
||
Post Reply | Page <1 9192939495 419> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |