Wimbledon v MK Dons |
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seaniemac
Jack Charlton Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 6245 |
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Went to the game yesterday with two mates, good fun. Lovely stadium and did feel a bit sorry for the MK Dons fans in one sense, they were on a hiding to nothing. It's not their fault that Wimbledon FC were badly run or not supported enough in the latter years in Selhurst Park.
As for this argument about no tradition, no history, no loyalty etc. Did Liverpool or United have a history or tradition when they first started up? Arsenal moved from Woolwich, south London to Highbury, north London, 26 years after they were formed. Do people who have a hatred for MK Dons have any ill-feelings towards Arsenal doing the same thing? What AFC Wimbledon fans did in forming the club was amazing and fair play to them. That's twice I've seen them play this season and the fans are brilliant but the team is shocking. They will struggle massively this season and if they avoid relegation, they will be doing well. |
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Wheelo
Liam Brady Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Location: Drogheda Status: Offline Points: 2351 |
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You don’t understand the whole outcry from other supporters? Maybe because they know how wrong it was that happened. If it happened to wimbledon, there’s nothing stopping it happening to another club. This whole talk of that c*** saving the dons on the day they were going bust doesn’t tell the full story. After the move was said to be going ahead, the dons started boycotting the matches and started setting up their own club. It was an absolute disgrace what happened – and in fairness to that c***, hes admitted it last week that it shouldn’t have been allowed happened! If they wanted to set up a club for MK, they should have set up a new club at the lower leagues like the dons have done and work their way up I really hope MK go bust, and the sooner the better. As for the dons, I wish them all the best and hopefully they keep going from strength to strength (I still think they made the wrong decision yesterday though, and should have sent back an unsold allocation, and boycotted the match) |
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seaniemac
Jack Charlton Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 6245 |
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In one sense, there is a certain amount of hypocrisy about the AFC Wimbledon fans and the holier than thou attitude will come back to be thrown in their face in future years if they do progress up the leagues as it becomes a business more than a fans club. The average attendance at Wimbledon home games in 93/94 was just over 8,000. Just over 10,000 the year after, peaking at 19,000 in the 98/99 season.
It was the independent three man panel that gave Pete Winkelman the go ahead to move, it was their fault, not supporters of MK Dons now. If you lived there (and there is little or nothing there, it's like a freaky American Outlet village without the discounts) and a club suddenly showed up in a lovely new stadium, most people would go too. |
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Wheelo
Liam Brady Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Location: Drogheda Status: Offline Points: 2351 |
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In fairness, it will always be a fans run club unless the fans vote it not to be. 1 member , 1 vote – the way it should be at all clubs. Very easy to change the direction of the club, if they feel it’s going the wrong way. As for mk and the people of mk, they basically robbed another clubs league place. They should never have been allowed to do that. If they wanted a club there so badly, they should have set up their own club and got promoted through the leagues (just like wimbledon had to do for a second time!!) |
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"Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster
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seaniemac
Jack Charlton Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 6245 |
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Explain to me how the "people of Milton Keynes" robbed another Clubs league place?! You can, rightly, accuse Pete Winkelman or even better, the two guys on the Independent FA panel who voted in favour of it (Raj Parker and Steve Stride), but the people of Milton Keynes?! Winkelman has come out with a lot of crap over the years but he made a valid point too recently, why didn't the AFC Wimbledon fans buy Wimbledon when they had the chance? It's not the MK Dons fans fault that the the independent panel gave Winkelman the approval to move. If you're going to blame people, blame the right people. |
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Wheelo
Liam Brady Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Location: Drogheda Status: Offline Points: 2351 |
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Of course I blame the people that allowed the move (though wasn’t it only 2 out of the 3 that voted for it?). But if the people of MK wanted their own football club, they should have set up their own club and started at the bottom like every other new club – rather than support a club that was taken away from the supporters of that club I really hope they go bust – and the sooner the better |
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"Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster
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seaniemac
Jack Charlton Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 6245 |
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Whether you like it or not, the MK Dons will not be going bust anytime soon. Formation aside, they are a very well run club with a fantastic stadium that has easily potential to expand by seating the top teir around three of the four stands that currently lie empty. The stadium was also on the shortlist of stadiums for the failed World Cup 2018 England bid. They have a very good squad, a good manager and play some great football, they will be there or thereabouts for promotion to the Championship in the next few seasons, if not this season. They are about an hour from London so if they do start getting promoted, they will be able to attract players cos they can live in London also. They are averaging around 8,500 a game, which is the 6th highest in League One. The two I mentioned above are the two that voted for it on the three man panel. Alan Turvey, the chairman of the Ryman League was the one who voted against it. There was a local club in Milton Keynes but it folded around the same time as MK Dons started. Business people like Winkelman put MK Dons together, not the locals so blaming them is pointless. If you lived there and a new team started in a brand spanking new stadium, most people would want to be a part of that, whether you like it or not. |
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Wheelo
Liam Brady Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Location: Drogheda Status: Offline Points: 2351 |
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Personally I could never support a club that was formed in the way mk were formed – even if it was on my door step |
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"Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster
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seaniemac
Jack Charlton Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 6245 |
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Fully understand that Wheelo but it's not the locals fault it happened. Plus, from looking at the home crowd yesterday, it was a very young crowd so MK Dons are doing something to attract them. Most AFC Wimbledon fans I spoke to yesterday and at a league game I was at in September would be happy for MK to drop the Dons title and allow them to claim the history of Wimbledon FC and leave it at that. There is an element of untruths surrounding AFC though, like they were going to boycott the game. They got 2,200 tickets and then asked MK Dons for another 1,000 (which they got). Some of the facts seem to be lost in the romance of AFC Wimbledon and people believe stuff that isn't as black and white as they make it seem. It is a great story and fair play to them but at some stage, they will face some tough decisions and face criticism/a backlash for some of the myth surrounding them. |
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Wheelo
Liam Brady Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Location: Drogheda Status: Offline Points: 2351 |
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Regardless on if mk are doing everything right in the community, getting young people to the matches,etc now – it’s still not right what they did. They could have done all that without robbing another clubs league place – and could have started a new club and worked their way up through the leagues. I don’t understand what you mean when talking about the ‘myth surrounding them’ though? I think it’s great what they did, set up their own club after their previous one was robbed on them, make it affordable for supporters to become members, 1 member 1 vote (no matter how much money someone has) – and the set up can only be changed by vote by the members/supporters. Every club in While I don’t agree with them attending yesterday (nothing to do with me though, is it?), they did ask supporters of other clubs to call off their boycott at mk after they were given the fa cup back! However, even with that, they still should have boycotted the match despite getting a share of the gate– some things are more important than money! |
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"Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster
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Vaux
Davey Langan Joined: 23 Aug 2012 Location: Vaux Way Status: Offline Points: 790 |
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This.
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seaniemac
Jack Charlton Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 6245 |
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They weren't given the FA Cup back though. The medals and Wimbledon FC trademarks were transferred to Merton, the London borough that Wimbledon originated from. AFC Wimbledon don't have them. Merton do and they legally have to stay in Merton as part of the agreement Winkelman made with Merton. They can only be given to AFC Wimbledon if they move back to Merton borough. MK Dons dropped any claims to anything Wimbledon won. The football supporters federation then recognised MK Dons supporters and stopped appealing to other clubs to boycott the club. It was hardly a massive boycott in the first place, most supporters don't even know of the existence of the FSF. It's false facts like the above two examples highlight that most people take as gospel is what I'm on about when it comes to 'myths' about AFC Wimbledon. While what they have accomplished is brilliant, there is a lot of rose tinted glasses regarding them too. The reality is that AFC Wimbledon are only like the way they are is because of MK Dons. Man United, Arsenal, etc are long established and run the way they are cos it's a business at the end of the day and most fans simply refuse to see that clearly. Just cos they (the fans) love their club, doesn't mean the owners have the same love for it. Football is a business nowerdays, a very big money making business and why it is admirable, thinking every club should be run like AFC Wimbledon, isn't going to happen. |
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Wheelo
Liam Brady Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Location: Drogheda Status: Offline Points: 2351 |
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Tbh I knew the above 2 facts, but as for the council holding on to the trophy, it was good enough for wimbledon to accept so was happy enough to say it was given to them, even though it technically wasnt (wouldn’t have been good enough for me if I was in their shoes) – should have said taken away from mk to be more accurate I would have suspected wimbledons views were asked re: calling off the boycott – but I am only speculating. Why can’t every club be run by supporters? Its not as if businessmen are doing a great job running football clubs in Supporters certainly wouldn’t do any worse than businessmen. In fact, supporters are the only ones that care about their club and not out to make a quick buck out of it! At least then clubs would be in the hands of people that actually care about the club. I think you’re 100% wrong on that view re: supporters run club! I think they’re going to get more and more popular especially when a couple of bigger ones are in danger of going bust and a supporters trust save them! And lets be honest, out of a few thousands supporters at clubs, the expertise would be in there to run a stable football club Edited by Wheelo - 03 Dec 2012 at 2:21pm |
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"Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster
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seaniemac
Jack Charlton Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 6245 |
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In theory it's a great idea but human nature means there will be a divide at some stage. If AFC Wimbledon get into League one/championship for example, they will need to move and are planning on moving to the dog track in Wimbledon but you're talking serious money and it is hard for fans to agree on things when it gets to that level. There will be a split at some stage with the AFC fans, it's inevitable when it comes to human nature.
If you think they are going to be more and more popular, why didn't these AFC Wimbledon fans buy Wimbledon back towards the end of the 90s/start of the noughties? Why didn't Liverpool fans make a proper serious attempt to buy them when the club had its back to the wall at the end of Gillett and Hicks reign? I know the Portsmouth supporters trust are nearly there with pompey but no-one else is/was interested in taking on that club. There is also serious rows within the PST over that property developer Robinson buying Fratton Park and leasing it back to the PST. Supporters would probably do worse than businessmen because they will let their hearts rule their heads most of the time. What do you class as 'bigger ones' by the way, are we talking Portsmouth here or are we talking a Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle? Good debate here by the way, some of the other posters on ybig could learn it's not personal and you don't have to start resorting to insults when people have different viewpoint. |
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Wheelo
Liam Brady Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Location: Drogheda Status: Offline Points: 2351 |
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Of course there’ll be differences of opinions – that’s the way of the world no matter who runs a club ,be it businessmen or supporters. I’m a shareholder/part owner of 2 clubs, fc united and drogheda united. Pleanty of differences of opinions at fc united at the moment on certain things, but everyone is happy enough to go with the majority once a democratic vote is taken on it – even if they don’t agree with it themselves. It’s human nature that not everyone is going to agree. I think it’s a new ideal creeping into the game, and its going to take time for supporters to ditch a lifetime of what they’ve had to put up maybe? Theres an increasing number of supporters owned clubs creeping up in the lower leagues. You are right, Rangers were in the best position when it looked like they might make a stab at it. They should’ve boycotted the new club and set up themselves as a supporters run club. Maybe theres not enough people with the back bone or balls to actually say ‘f*** it, lets do it’! I presume you would agree that German football has some pretty big clubs? While not been fully owned by supporters,they have a huge involvement in the running of their clubs and it works well, with german football thriving. Looking closer to home, the supporters run model at shamrock rovers has worked well for a number of years now (as has the one at drogheda united over the last couple of years – though both should lower the annual fees to a tenner or something imo) I think you’re wrong in stating that they’d let their heart rule their head – I know in drogheda and fc, they certainly don’t anyway! (that’s not to say ye wont get the odd one – like bohs!!). They’ve seen the actions that nearly killed their clubs (or other clubs) and don’t want to put their clubs in that position ever again by over spending to chase the dream (well no need for the ‘again’ with fc!!) No reason at all, why supporters run clubs cant be a success in Edited by Wheelo - 03 Dec 2012 at 3:25pm |
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"Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster
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Del-Piero
Jack Charlton Joined: 19 Oct 2011 Location: Galway, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 7074 |
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Otsemobors goal
Have always remembered that name, he was at Liverpool for a while when he was younger. |
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seaniemac
Jack Charlton Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 6245 |
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Wheelo
Liam Brady Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Location: Drogheda Status: Offline Points: 2351 |
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The value of united would be now too high probably despite been hundreds of millions of euro in debt. However, if they go through a very bad financial spell in servicing the debt or if the supporters boycotted properly (like they should have had the backbone to do rather than wave stupid green and yellow scarves), they wouldn’t have been attractive for many businessmen, so yeah, there is always the possibility…… - but if united supporters past actions are anything to go by (and with the amount of fans they have from other countries that go to matches that would replace those that boycott), there realistically isn’t. If supporters completely boycott any club (match tickets, merchandise,etc), there’s no reason for a businessman to be interested in buying it, so it can be done. It’s just a matter of supporters getting properly organized, have the balls and actually do it. The idea is creeping in among supporters. I know celtic supporters groups invited a couple of the fc united up board up last year for a talk on supporters ownerships – 1 premiership club also (think it may have been Newcastle). The clubs in england can’t go on as they are, with w******* coming in and buying any club they want, get what they can out of it, price the supporters out and treat them like crap, put the clubs future in danger and then f*** off I’ll try get on the web at home over the weekend to get that figure of how many English clubs are in debt/financial trouble – businessmen running clubs isn’t working, its destroying clubs and the souls of clubs! I know about that rule in EDIT:
This is a actually a good piece which I’m after lifting from another thread
Edited by Wheelo - 04 Dec 2012 at 11:13am |
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"Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster
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