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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Armstrong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Neil Armstrong Neil Armstrong wrote:

The Nuns would not let the orphans escape because they were in their pyjamas.


Scannal! The Cavan Fire

36 Die in Cavan Orphanage Fire 
In the early hours of a February morning in 1943 fire broke out in the basement laundry of St. Joseph's Orphanage & Industrial School run by the enclosed order of Poor Clare nuns inMain St., Cavan town. The fire very quickly turned into an inferno. The alarm was raised by horrified townspeople who tried to help. At first they could not gain access to the convent and when they were admitted it was almost too late too reach the terrified, screaming children, trapped in the top floor dormitories. A hugely inadequate fire service meant that within forty minutes the flames had taken hold, the roof had caved in and the building was left just a shell. Thirty five children and an elderly lay woman burned to death. The following day the remains of the thirty six bodies were recovered from the smoldering ruin. They were put in just eight coffins and buried subsequently in a mass grave.

The horrific tragedy became national front page news and controversy about locked fire exits and why the children were not evacuated in good time gave the impetus for a public Tribunal of Inquiry. But the results of the Inquiry raised almost more questions than it answered. The inquiry was viewed as a whitewash by some as there was no attempt to hold anyone directly responsible.

"In Cavan there was a great fire,
Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire,
It would be a shame, if the nuns were to blame,
So it had to be caused by a wire."

Dogerel penned by 
Brian Ó Nualáin (aka Myles na gCopaleen) 
Secretary to the Tribunal of Inquiry.

While the Tribunal of Inquiry did make some reccomendations which were the basis of reform of local fire fighting services and fire safety standards in Industrial Schools - the locked fire exits were to have horrific echoes in the Stardust almost 40 years later. Some argue that the true story of what really happened that night and why so many children were burned to death was not uncovered.

"Duradh liom agus creidim an té a dúirt liom é. Gur ceann de na fathanna nár tugadh na páistí amach ón áit ná nach raibh na mna rialta ag iarraidh go mbeidh siad feicithe agus feisteas oíche orthu." Mícheál Holmes - Craoltóir

("One of the reasons given why the children were not evacuated in time was that the nuns did not want the girls to be seen in their night clothes") 

However one thing is certain, for those who were involved in the fire the nightmare still lives on

"It's a miracle I was alive after that ... when they put a ladder up it wouldn't reach. I kept looking around and I thought - I'm going to die here. The flames were coming nearer and nearer. I could hear glass cracking, cracking - I thought I'm going to die..."
Sarah - Survivor of the fire

Sarah (not her real name) was one of the last girls to be rescued that night from the burning building; it's a trauma which has haunted her life. The memories are as vivid 63 years on as she tells her story for the first time publicly but the stigma felt by inmates of such institutions then, for her, has not diminished either.

"Sure no-one would imagine that that would happen.... my two sisters - yes they went into meet their deaths...that's all I can think about."
Matt McKiernan - Brother of Mary & Susan McKiernan who perished in the fire.

Cavan man, Matt McKiernan still feels the acute pain of the loss of his two sisters who perished in the fire. They had been placed in the Industrial school only 6 months earlier after the death of their mother because the local Roman Catholic priest felt it was not appropriate that young girls be looked after by a protestant neighbour or even their own father.

Scannal talks to some of the people who risked their own lives to try to save the children and who had the unenviable task of recovering the bodies afterwards.

"I think I'd like to forget it because it was one of the saddest days I ever remember in my life... something like 9/11 it was dreadful..." John McKiernan - Rescuer

This week Scannal examines the events of that night and the scandal of how 35 young girls & one old woman were burned to death because of a deadly combination of incompetence and arrogant narrow mindedness, officially swept neatly under the carpet of a smug era where children and especially those kind of children really did not count.

Those who lost their lives in the fire

Mary Harrison (15yrs Dublin )
Mary Hughes (15yrs Killeshandra)
Ellen McHugh (15yrs Blacklion)
Kathleen & Frances Kiely (12yrs & 9yrs Virginia)
Mary & Margaret Lynch ( 15yrs & 10yrs Cavan)
Josephine & Mona Cassidy ( 15yrs & 11yrs Belfast)
Kathleen Reilly ( 14yrs Butlersbridge)
Mary & Josphine Carroll ( 12yrs & 10yrs Castlerahan)
Mary & Susan McKiernan ( 16yrs & 14yrs Dromard)
Rose Wright ( 11yrs Ballyjamesduff)
Mary & Nora Barrett ( 12yrs -Twins - Dublin)
Mary Kelly ( 10yrs Ballinagh)
Mary Brady (7yrs Ballinagh)
Dorothy Daly (7yrs Cootehill)
Mary Ivers ( 12yrs Kilcoole Wicklow )
Philomena Regan (9yrs Dublin)
Harriet & Ellen Payne ( 11yrs & 8yrs Dublin)
Teresa White (6yrs Dublin)
Mary Roche (6yrs Dublin)
Ellen Morgan (10yrs Virginia)
Elizabeth Heaphy ( 4yrs Swords)
Mary O'Hara (7yrs Kilnaleck)
Bernadette Serridge (5yrs Dublin)
Katherine & Margaret Chambers (9 & 7yrs Enniskillen)
Mary Lowry (17yrs Drumcrow, Cavan)
Bridget & Mary Galligan (17 & 18yrs Drumcassidy, Cavan)
Mary Smith (80yrs employed as Cook)

 
I never knew of this. Reading it brought a tear to my eye. No words.
 
If the nightdress story is true ?
and no nuns perish in the fire? where were they?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 3:28pm
Oh they were there throwing petrol on the flames.




Anyone ever see the film 'Philomena'?  Catholics are scum.  Worse than Hitler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Oh they were there throwing petrol on the flames.




Anyone ever see the film 'Philomena'?  Catholics are scum.  Worse than Hitler.
TJ I must say I am 100% behind you ...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Oh they were there throwing petrol on the flames.




Anyone ever see the film 'Philomena'?  Catholics are scum.  Worse than Hitler.
TJ I must say I am 100% behind you ...............

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Neil Armstrong Neil Armstrong wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Neil Armstrong Neil Armstrong wrote:

The Nuns would not let the orphans escape because they were in their pyjamas.


Scannal! The Cavan Fire

36 Die in Cavan Orphanage Fire 
In the early hours of a February morning in 1943 fire broke out in the basement laundry of St. Joseph's Orphanage & Industrial School run by the enclosed order of Poor Clare nuns inMain St., Cavan town. The fire very quickly turned into an inferno. The alarm was raised by horrified townspeople who tried to help. At first they could not gain access to the convent and when they were admitted it was almost too late too reach the terrified, screaming children, trapped in the top floor dormitories. A hugely inadequate fire service meant that within forty minutes the flames had taken hold, the roof had caved in and the building was left just a shell. Thirty five children and an elderly lay woman burned to death. The following day the remains of the thirty six bodies were recovered from the smoldering ruin. They were put in just eight coffins and buried subsequently in a mass grave.

The horrific tragedy became national front page news and controversy about locked fire exits and why the children were not evacuated in good time gave the impetus for a public Tribunal of Inquiry. But the results of the Inquiry raised almost more questions than it answered. The inquiry was viewed as a whitewash by some as there was no attempt to hold anyone directly responsible.

"In Cavan there was a great fire,
Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire,
It would be a shame, if the nuns were to blame,
So it had to be caused by a wire."

Dogerel penned by 
Brian Ó Nualáin (aka Myles na gCopaleen) 
Secretary to the Tribunal of Inquiry.

While the Tribunal of Inquiry did make some reccomendations which were the basis of reform of local fire fighting services and fire safety standards in Industrial Schools - the locked fire exits were to have horrific echoes in the Stardust almost 40 years later. Some argue that the true story of what really happened that night and why so many children were burned to death was not uncovered.

"Duradh liom agus creidim an té a dúirt liom é. Gur ceann de na fathanna nár tugadh na páistí amach ón áit ná nach raibh na mna rialta ag iarraidh go mbeidh siad feicithe agus feisteas oíche orthu." Mícheál Holmes - Craoltóir

("One of the reasons given why the children were not evacuated in time was that the nuns did not want the girls to be seen in their night clothes") 

However one thing is certain, for those who were involved in the fire the nightmare still lives on

"It's a miracle I was alive after that ... when they put a ladder up it wouldn't reach. I kept looking around and I thought - I'm going to die here. The flames were coming nearer and nearer. I could hear glass cracking, cracking - I thought I'm going to die..."
Sarah - Survivor of the fire

Sarah (not her real name) was one of the last girls to be rescued that night from the burning building; it's a trauma which has haunted her life. The memories are as vivid 63 years on as she tells her story for the first time publicly but the stigma felt by inmates of such institutions then, for her, has not diminished either.

"Sure no-one would imagine that that would happen.... my two sisters - yes they went into meet their deaths...that's all I can think about."
Matt McKiernan - Brother of Mary & Susan McKiernan who perished in the fire.

Cavan man, Matt McKiernan still feels the acute pain of the loss of his two sisters who perished in the fire. They had been placed in the Industrial school only 6 months earlier after the death of their mother because the local Roman Catholic priest felt it was not appropriate that young girls be looked after by a protestant neighbour or even their own father.

Scannal talks to some of the people who risked their own lives to try to save the children and who had the unenviable task of recovering the bodies afterwards.

"I think I'd like to forget it because it was one of the saddest days I ever remember in my life... something like 9/11 it was dreadful..." John McKiernan - Rescuer

This week Scannal examines the events of that night and the scandal of how 35 young girls & one old woman were burned to death because of a deadly combination of incompetence and arrogant narrow mindedness, officially swept neatly under the carpet of a smug era where children and especially those kind of children really did not count.

Those who lost their lives in the fire

Mary Harrison (15yrs Dublin )
Mary Hughes (15yrs Killeshandra)
Ellen McHugh (15yrs Blacklion)
Kathleen & Frances Kiely (12yrs & 9yrs Virginia)
Mary & Margaret Lynch ( 15yrs & 10yrs Cavan)
Josephine & Mona Cassidy ( 15yrs & 11yrs Belfast)
Kathleen Reilly ( 14yrs Butlersbridge)
Mary & Josphine Carroll ( 12yrs & 10yrs Castlerahan)
Mary & Susan McKiernan ( 16yrs & 14yrs Dromard)
Rose Wright ( 11yrs Ballyjamesduff)
Mary & Nora Barrett ( 12yrs -Twins - Dublin)
Mary Kelly ( 10yrs Ballinagh)
Mary Brady (7yrs Ballinagh)
Dorothy Daly (7yrs Cootehill)
Mary Ivers ( 12yrs Kilcoole Wicklow )
Philomena Regan (9yrs Dublin)
Harriet & Ellen Payne ( 11yrs & 8yrs Dublin)
Teresa White (6yrs Dublin)
Mary Roche (6yrs Dublin)
Ellen Morgan (10yrs Virginia)
Elizabeth Heaphy ( 4yrs Swords)
Mary O'Hara (7yrs Kilnaleck)
Bernadette Serridge (5yrs Dublin)
Katherine & Margaret Chambers (9 & 7yrs Enniskillen)
Mary Lowry (17yrs Drumcrow, Cavan)
Bridget & Mary Galligan (17 & 18yrs Drumcassidy, Cavan)
Mary Smith (80yrs employed as Cook)

 
I never knew of this. Reading it brought a tear to my eye. No words.
 
If the nightdress story is true ?
and no nuns perish in the fire? where were they?
 
Another story I've read suggests that firemen were delayed entry to the building by the nuns as the girls were in a state of undress. If this story is true, it begs the question - Why were they undressed ?  


Edited by Cabra Hoop - 09 Mar 2017 at 4:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Catholics are scum.  Worse than Hitler.
Ah come on now TJ.
Hitler dressed in black and went around telling everyone what to do, whereas.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEWHEELER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Oh they were there throwing petrol on the flames.




Anyone ever see the film 'Philomena'?  Catholics are scum.  Worse than Hitler.
 
Read the book instead, the movie is good but obviously some things for the movie are for dramatic purposes. 
 
Irish Sun Sports Journalist Neil O'Riordan referred to this during the week on Twitter. His Ma was born where Philomena Lee's boy was born in Sean Ross Abbey.  That coont Sister Hildegaarde, when his Ma was dying she (with Neil's Da) went to Sean Ross to try find her mother.  Hildegaarde lied and sent her on a wild goose chase (she eventually did track her down off her own bat).
 
When Hildegaard learned she'd found her Ma, she said she was "delighted" yet two years later she was sending both Philomena and her son on similar wild goose chases and telling them lies.
 
Hildegaarde and her ilk can rot in hell. Coonts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 8:45pm
This thread needs a villain. It's like everyone has all this anger built up and wants someone to argue with about it, but for once we're all on the same anti-Church side.

Go on, someone take up the argument. Sid?

It'll be good for MayoMark's blood pressure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

This thread needs a villain. It's like everyone has all this anger built up and wants someone to argue with about it, but for once we're all on the same anti-Church side.

Go on, someone take up the argument. Sid?

It'll be good for MayoMark's blood pressure


I don't think some **** arguing in favour of the church will help my blood pressure somehow!
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fr. Feeley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2017 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

This thread needs a villain. It's like everyone has all this anger built up and wants someone to argue with about it, but for once we're all on the same anti-Church side.

Go on, someone take up the argument. Sid?

It'll be good for MayoMark's blood pressure


Be still my child. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2017 at 7:04am
Originally posted by Fr. Feeley Fr. Feeley wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

This thread needs a villain. It's like everyone has all this anger built up and wants someone to argue with about it, but for once we're all on the same anti-Church side.

Go on, someone take up the argument. Sid?

It'll be good for MayoMark's blood pressure


Be still my child
Is that what you said to your new boyfriend Fr ???????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 7:19pm
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2017 at 8:37am
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/13/grappling-with-rome-david-marrs-lessons-from-the-royal-commission

Serious work done by the Royal commission in Australia. Staggering numbers.

 
Good read. The Catholic Church really is a vile organization. I thought this was a good line in the article:
 
“If this was to have occurred in any other institution,” he told the commission, “it is hard to imagine that it could continue to operate.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote newrynyuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2017 at 3:56pm
Put it this way: if the CEO of a chain of day-care centres was found to be covering up sexual abuse of children in said day-care centres, what's the likelihood of the CEO avoiding jail?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 2:14pm
I know nothing about Niall Boylan but I just read about what he said on that RTÉ programme the other night, fair play to him. How those ****s are still allowed do business anywhere is f**king disgraceful.
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I keep mixing him up with Neil Prenderville....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by Neil Armstrong Neil Armstrong wrote:

The Nuns would not let the orphans escape because they were in their pyjamas.


Scannal! The Cavan Fire

36 Die in Cavan Orphanage Fire 
In the early hours of a February morning in 1943 fire broke out in the basement laundry of St. Joseph's Orphanage & Industrial School run by the enclosed order of Poor Clare nuns inMain St., Cavan town. The fire very quickly turned into an inferno. The alarm was raised by horrified townspeople who tried to help. At first they could not gain access to the convent and when they were admitted it was almost too late too reach the terrified, screaming children, trapped in the top floor dormitories. A hugely inadequate fire service meant that within forty minutes the flames had taken hold, the roof had caved in and the building was left just a shell. Thirty five children and an elderly lay woman burned to death. The following day the remains of the thirty six bodies were recovered from the smoldering ruin. They were put in just eight coffins and buried subsequently in a mass grave.

The horrific tragedy became national front page news and controversy about locked fire exits and why the children were not evacuated in good time gave the impetus for a public Tribunal of Inquiry. But the results of the Inquiry raised almost more questions than it answered. The inquiry was viewed as a whitewash by some as there was no attempt to hold anyone directly responsible.

"In Cavan there was a great fire,
Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire,
It would be a shame, if the nuns were to blame,
So it had to be caused by a wire."

Dogerel penned by 
Brian Ó Nualáin (aka Myles na gCopaleen) 
Secretary to the Tribunal of Inquiry.

While the Tribunal of Inquiry did make some reccomendations which were the basis of reform of local fire fighting services and fire safety standards in Industrial Schools - the locked fire exits were to have horrific echoes in the Stardust almost 40 years later. Some argue that the true story of what really happened that night and why so many children were burned to death was not uncovered.

"Duradh liom agus creidim an té a dúirt liom é. Gur ceann de na fathanna nár tugadh na páistí amach ón áit ná nach raibh na mna rialta ag iarraidh go mbeidh siad feicithe agus feisteas oíche orthu." Mícheál Holmes - Craoltóir

("One of the reasons given why the children were not evacuated in time was that the nuns did not want the girls to be seen in their night clothes") 

However one thing is certain, for those who were involved in the fire the nightmare still lives on

"It's a miracle I was alive after that ... when they put a ladder up it wouldn't reach. I kept looking around and I thought - I'm going to die here. The flames were coming nearer and nearer. I could hear glass cracking, cracking - I thought I'm going to die..."
Sarah - Survivor of the fire

Sarah (not her real name) was one of the last girls to be rescued that night from the burning building; it's a trauma which has haunted her life. The memories are as vivid 63 years on as she tells her story for the first time publicly but the stigma felt by inmates of such institutions then, for her, has not diminished either.

"Sure no-one would imagine that that would happen.... my two sisters - yes they went into meet their deaths...that's all I can think about."
Matt McKiernan - Brother of Mary & Susan McKiernan who perished in the fire.

Cavan man, Matt McKiernan still feels the acute pain of the loss of his two sisters who perished in the fire. They had been placed in the Industrial school only 6 months earlier after the death of their mother because the local Roman Catholic priest felt it was not appropriate that young girls be looked after by a protestant neighbour or even their own father.

Scannal talks to some of the people who risked their own lives to try to save the children and who had the unenviable task of recovering the bodies afterwards.

"I think I'd like to forget it because it was one of the saddest days I ever remember in my life... something like 9/11 it was dreadful..." John McKiernan - Rescuer

This week Scannal examines the events of that night and the scandal of how 35 young girls & one old woman were burned to death because of a deadly combination of incompetence and arrogant narrow mindedness, officially swept neatly under the carpet of a smug era where children and especially those kind of children really did not count.

Those who lost their lives in the fire

Mary Harrison (15yrs Dublin )
Mary Hughes (15yrs Killeshandra)
Ellen McHugh (15yrs Blacklion)
Kathleen & Frances Kiely (12yrs & 9yrs Virginia)
Mary & Margaret Lynch ( 15yrs & 10yrs Cavan)
Josephine & Mona Cassidy ( 15yrs & 11yrs Belfast)
Kathleen Reilly ( 14yrs Butlersbridge)
Mary & Josphine Carroll ( 12yrs & 10yrs Castlerahan)
Mary & Susan McKiernan ( 16yrs & 14yrs Dromard)
Rose Wright ( 11yrs Ballyjamesduff)
Mary & Nora Barrett ( 12yrs -Twins - Dublin)
Mary Kelly ( 10yrs Ballinagh)
Mary Brady (7yrs Ballinagh)
Dorothy Daly (7yrs Cootehill)
Mary Ivers ( 12yrs Kilcoole Wicklow )
Philomena Regan (9yrs Dublin)
Harriet & Ellen Payne ( 11yrs & 8yrs Dublin)
Teresa White (6yrs Dublin)
Mary Roche (6yrs Dublin)
Ellen Morgan (10yrs Virginia)
Elizabeth Heaphy ( 4yrs Swords)
Mary O'Hara (7yrs Kilnaleck)
Bernadette Serridge (5yrs Dublin)
Katherine & Margaret Chambers (9 & 7yrs Enniskillen)
Mary Lowry (17yrs Drumcrow, Cavan)
Bridget & Mary Galligan (17 & 18yrs Drumcassidy, Cavan)
Mary Smith (80yrs employed as Cook)

 
 
 
Just coming across this now. Never heard of the incident but look at the ages of these young girls. Absolutely heartbreaking story and infuriating at the same time that there was a whitewash then took place. The Catholic church had absolute power in Ireland didn't they. That was why everything was covered up over the years. They knew if it ever got out their hegemony would be destroyed and the power that comes with it gone forever. I am glad I have lived to see that day. A vile organization that held their power and privilege over all yet had the absolute audacity to keep up the appearance of piety. Even worse they were the ones many went to confide in during confession, being absolved of your sins by a possible paedo, absolutely sick.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

I keep mixing him up with Neil Prenderville....
Is he a similar type of dick jockey? I know absolutely nothing about him. Still, even if he is a complete Gerry Ryan, he deserves credit for his bravery on this issue.
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