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Originally posted by DeclanDaly DeclanDaly wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

To be able to qualify for world cups though you need to have players who can create and score goals against quality teams. Republic of Ireland players have scored 7 goals this season and created 5 in the permier league . That doesn't put you fourth in the league it puts you last. 
That's why we rely on such negative tactics to, not because our players are less familiar with each other than other teams.


That is also true. We do lack regular goalscorers, even (to continue in the Burnley theme) a couple of the standard of Chris Wood or Sam Vokes.

Sure we'd take Ashley Barnes!

Who interestingly, was capped at underage level by Austria Geek
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Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by HuntysCousin HuntysCousin wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by longford claret longford claret wrote:

Plays well again.Clean sheet and a win. Upto 4th.



Mad that MON has so little faith in our players. There is Burnley with Ward, Hendrick, Brady and now Kevin Long all in the first 11 showing they are very decent players when set up right. When you have guys like Coleman, McCarthy, Duffy supplementing that MON shouldnt be downplaying our guys every chance he gets. In regards to Long great to see him getting some game time lets hope it continues.


What better way to congratulate the lad on his performance than take a pop at the manager that has given him all his international caps...

 
 
agree here. also, kevin long is only now starting to get a run of games in the burnley side. considering he's been bench warming for most of the season, why should he be in the starting XI for the national team? the attack on MON is nonsensical, much like that to when Declan rice got into the west ham starting XI. young lads that need to concentrate on establishing themselves at club level before they can look to playing international matches.

While your point remains correct, Kevin Long is 27.
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There's always some excuse as to why Ireland can't do what numerous other sides of similar/inferior quality are able to do. There is nothing in Burnley's squad that can't also be found in Ireland's squad. Their strikers are no better than ours, nor do they even have a midfielder on the creative level of Hoolahan. As for the rest of the team, they're either Irish in case of Brady, Hendrick, and Ward, or they're of a similar/inferior quality to what's available for us - Cork, Mee, Lowton, Tarkowski, Pope etc., these are not outstanding players, yet they are playing constructive, effective football.
We're decent enough..
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

There's always some excuse as to why Ireland can't do what numerous other sides of similar/inferior quality are able to do. There is nothing in Burnley's squad that can't also be found in Ireland's squad. Their strikers are no better than ours, nor do they even have a midfielder on the creative level of Hoolahan. As for the rest of the team, they're either Irish in case of Brady, Hendrick, and Ward, or they're of a similar/inferior quality to what's available for us - Cork, Mee, Lowton, Tarkowski, Pope etc., these are not outstanding players, yet they are playing constructive, effective football.

Apart from a couple of decent midfielders and a striker. Apart from that I would agree.
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by HuntysCousin HuntysCousin wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by longford claret longford claret wrote:

Plays well again.Clean sheet and a win. Upto 4th.



Mad that MON has so little faith in our players. There is Burnley with Ward, Hendrick, Brady and now Kevin Long all in the first 11 showing they are very decent players when set up right. When you have guys like Coleman, McCarthy, Duffy supplementing that MON shouldnt be downplaying our guys every chance he gets. In regards to Long great to see him getting some game time lets hope it continues.


What better way to congratulate the lad on his performance than take a pop at the manager that has given him all his international caps...

 
 
agree here. also, kevin long is only now starting to get a run of games in the burnley side. considering he's been bench warming for most of the season, why should he be in the starting XI for the national team? the attack on MON is nonsensical, much like that to when Declan rice got into the west ham starting XI. young lads that need to concentrate on establishing themselves at club level before they can look to playing international matches.

While your point remains correct, Kevin Long is 27.
 
 
could still be classified as young, but more so in the sense that he hasn't played much in his career. less than 100 games played since leaving cork. that's less than 15 games a season
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

There's always some excuse as to why Ireland can't do what numerous other sides of similar/inferior quality are able to do. There is nothing in Burnley's squad that can't also be found in Ireland's squad. Their strikers are no better than ours, nor do they even have a midfielder on the creative level of Hoolahan. As for the rest of the team, they're either Irish in case of Brady, Hendrick, and Ward, or they're of a similar/inferior quality to what's available for us - Cork, Mee, Lowton, Tarkowski, Pope etc., these are not outstanding players, yet they are playing constructive, effective football.

Apart from a couple of decent midfielders and a striker. Apart from that I would agree.



Two of Burnley's midfielders ARE Irish
We're decent enough..
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So you are saying he is inexperienced but not young?
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

There's always some excuse as to why Ireland can't do what numerous other sides of similar/inferior quality are able to do. There is nothing in Burnley's squad that can't also be found in Ireland's squad. Their strikers are no better than ours, nor do they even have a midfielder on the creative level of Hoolahan. As for the rest of the team, they're either Irish in case of Brady, Hendrick, and Ward, or they're of a similar/inferior quality to what's available for us - Cork, Mee, Lowton, Tarkowski, Pope etc., these are not outstanding players, yet they are playing constructive, effective football.

Ye are on here praiseing Burnley they are going well but they are no Real Madrid they win the majority of there games 1-0.
Ireland tried to play in this manner for this campaign and by most got slated has old school negative hoofball.
Hot nor Cold won't please most lads here

By the way fair play to Burnley.
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

There's always some excuse as to why Ireland can't do what numerous other sides of similar/inferior quality are able to do. There is nothing in Burnley's squad that can't also be found in Ireland's squad. Their strikers are no better than ours, nor do they even have a midfielder on the creative level of Hoolahan. As for the rest of the team, they're either Irish in case of Brady, Hendrick, and Ward, or they're of a similar/inferior quality to what's available for us - Cork, Mee, Lowton, Tarkowski, Pope etc., these are not outstanding players, yet they are playing constructive, effective football.

Apart from a couple of decent midfielders and a striker. Apart from that I would agree.



Two of Burnley's midfielders ARE Irish

Who is the other one? Hendrick and who else? From the couple of times I have watched Burnley it isn't Hendrick I wanted to be Irish. We are crying out for a Cork or Defour, the latter in particular.
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Robbie Brady was a midfielder last time I checked. McCarthy is better than Cork, and Arter is around his level too. The great Steven Defour has 1 assist so far this season, and has at times struggled to get into Burnley's side, but he's the great player we're missing! I'm sure you'd regard him just as highly if he was Irish rather than Belgian.
We're decent enough..
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Hendrick has been playing in a number 10 role, centrally behind Wood or Barnes, and anytime I've seen Burnley, he's not been doing too badly. He can actually make slide rule passes and through balls along the ground. Who'd have thought that!
The Burnley story just proves that some of our players who O'Neill and others think can only play one way (hoofball), can actually play a bit against decent opposition
 
 
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Burnley being fourth with several Irish players in their squad of course does not mean that all of our players are capable of playing at that level. And with no disrespect to Burnley, and I say this while having a soft spot for them, they'll probably finish closer to tenth than fourth.

But, Sean Dyche has proven that a squad full of average to half-decent players can mix it up with some of the leagues better teams, and his success as a manager this season is the type that MON should be aspiring to. 

We could argue all day about how Burnley could do with a Shane Duffy or a Seamus Coleman, and how we'd love to have Chris Woods or Defour, but realistically there's very little in terms of quality between any of those players.

I think Burnley and Dyche are showing us that MON could be doing better with the players available to him. 
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Robbie Brady was a midfielder last time I checked. McCarthy is better than Cork, and Arter is around his level too. The great Steven Defour has 1 assist so far this season, and has at times struggled to get into Burnley's side, but he's the great player we're missing! I'm sure you'd regard him just as highly if he was Irish rather than Belgian.
Robbie Brady is not a central midfielder, nor will he ever be.
James McCarthy might well have been better if he wasn't constantly injured. Arter is a very average player who had a good run of form once, though the argument is there that Jack Cork could be having similar now. In fairness though, Cork showed far more as a young fella to lead me to believe that this is just a case of the right blend of maturity and the right manager for him.
Steven Defour is one of only  four players to have been involved in all 17 of Burnley's EPL games, starting all of them. That is quite an achievement for somebody who struggles to get into the side. I also don't get this Americanism that has drifted in to football of assist statistics, it is largely irrelevant and a little erroneous. Nevertheless, I wouldn't see 'assisting' as a huge part of his game, I would have assumed that was more Gudmundsson's role in the side. Defour wins the ball back and starts their counter attacks, a neat and efficient player with a good range of passing.
 The point I was making, is that it is a team game and we  are lacking in important facets of making a good team at the moment. I believe the manager must take some criticism for that, but overall I think he overachieved.
Your last comment, even though it was facetious,  shows how much you are missing that point by.
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Originally posted by HuntysCousin HuntysCousin wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by longford claret longford claret wrote:

Plays well again.Clean sheet and a win. Upto 4th.



Mad that MON has so little faith in our players. There is Burnley with Ward, Hendrick, Brady and now Kevin Long all in the first 11 showing they are very decent players when set up right. When you have guys like Coleman, McCarthy, Duffy supplementing that MON shouldnt be downplaying our guys every chance he gets. In regards to Long great to see him getting some game time lets hope it continues.


What better way to congratulate the lad on his performance than take a pop at the manager that has given him all his international caps...
 
 
I think you misunderstand me. I am still in the MON camp(just about), and as such feel he should continue for the euro qualifiers. What annoys me is that he is always stating that we are playing against better technical teams so we should be happy with our lot, i.e. not winning any games against the top 3 in our group at home. Then look at Burnley. 4 Irish lads doing well albeit Brady injured now and players in their team who wouldn't get on ahead of some of our players. Yet we should be almost be afraid of playing away to Georgia the way MON was talking. I actually thought Long was unfortunate to lose his place in the team to Clark because he did nothing wrong in the games he played and deserved to keep his place. I said it at the time. I hope he can push on now and maybe become a 1st teamer at club and country because I rate him.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Burnley being fourth with several Irish players in their squad of course does not mean that all of our players are capable of playing at that level. And with no disrespect to Burnley, and I say this while having a soft spot for them, they'll probably finish closer to tenth than fourth.

But, Sean Dyche has proven that a squad full of average to half-decent players can mix it up with some of the leagues better teams, and his success as a manager this season is the type that MON should be aspiring to. 

We could argue all day about how Burnley could do with a Shane Duffy or a Seamus Coleman, and how we'd love to have Chris Woods or Defour, but realistically there's very little in terms of quality between any of those players.

I think Burnley and Dyche are showing us that MON could be doing better with the players available to him. 


Aside from not being sure how many Burnley fans would want Duffy, no disrespect to him, the point is about building a team. Our biggest areas of weakness are the most important in football, which is why there may be little in terms of quality between us or Burnley and why we might be as good as Wales, on paper, if you take out Bale and Ramsey, or as good as Denmark, on paper, if you take out Eriksen, but they have those players and, as a better man than me once said, unfortunately we played them on grass.
It is about getting a team's balance right and I think we are severely lacking in certain areas, which is why we play the way we do. There can be debate over how much MON is responsible for not finding that balance, but it must surely be clear to everyone the limitations he has in certain areas.
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Robbie Brady was a midfielder last time I checked. McCarthy is better than Cork, and Arter is around his level too. The great Steven Defour has 1 assist so far this season, and has at times struggled to get into Burnley's side, but he's the great player we're missing! I'm sure you'd regard him just as highly if he was Irish rather than Belgian.

He's having a great season for them. I think he's made a huge difference to the way they're playing this season, more so than any other player. A bit more box to box than McCarthy.
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Burnley being fourth with several Irish players in their squad of course does not mean that all of our players are capable of playing at that level. And with no disrespect to Burnley, and I say this while having a soft spot for them, they'll probably finish closer to tenth than fourth.

But, Sean Dyche has proven that a squad full of average to half-decent players can mix it up with some of the leagues better teams, and his success as a manager this season is the type that MON should be aspiring to. 

We could argue all day about how Burnley could do with a Shane Duffy or a Seamus Coleman, and how we'd love to have Chris Woods or Defour, but realistically there's very little in terms of quality between any of those players.

I think Burnley and Dyche are showing us that MON could be doing better with the players available to him. 



Aside from not being sure how many Burnley fans would want Duffy, no disrespect to him, the point is about building a team. Our biggest areas of weakness are the most important in football, which is why there may be little in terms of quality between us or Burnley and why we might be as good as Wales, on paper, if you take out Bale and Ramsey, or as good as Denmark, on paper, if you take out Eriksen, but they have those players and, as a better man than me once said, unfortunately we played them on grass.
It is about getting a team's balance right and I think we are severely lacking in certain areas, which is why we play the way we do. There can be debate over how much MON is responsible for not finding that balance, but it must surely be clear to everyone the limitations he has in certain areas.




That is the point, yes. Whether Burnley are 4th or 14th, they demonstrate that he have the players to compete with the best in the world. They do it every week. Same goes for Duffy, Coleman, McCarthy, Arter, Clark, Shane Long. I haven’t seen much of Kevin Long to be honest, so sorry for hijacking this thread.

We definitely lack an outstanding talent. A Bale or Eriksen is dreamland, but even a Cambiasso, Defour, Vardy, Zaha standard of player (to pull 4 names out of my arse) would elevate us.
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Originally posted by DeclanDaly DeclanDaly wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Burnley being fourth with several Irish players in their squad of course does not mean that all of our players are capable of playing at that level. And with no disrespect to Burnley, and I say this while having a soft spot for them, they'll probably finish closer to tenth than fourth.

But, Sean Dyche has proven that a squad full of average to half-decent players can mix it up with some of the leagues better teams, and his success as a manager this season is the type that MON should be aspiring to. 

We could argue all day about how Burnley could do with a Shane Duffy or a Seamus Coleman, and how we'd love to have Chris Woods or Defour, but realistically there's very little in terms of quality between any of those players.

I think Burnley and Dyche are showing us that MON could be doing better with the players available to him. 



Aside from not being sure how many Burnley fans would want Duffy, no disrespect to him, the point is about building a team. Our biggest areas of weakness are the most important in football, which is why there may be little in terms of quality between us or Burnley and why we might be as good as Wales, on paper, if you take out Bale and Ramsey, or as good as Denmark, on paper, if you take out Eriksen, but they have those players and, as a better man than me once said, unfortunately we played them on grass.
It is about getting a team's balance right and I think we are severely lacking in certain areas, which is why we play the way we do. There can be debate over how much MON is responsible for not finding that balance, but it must surely be clear to everyone the limitations he has in certain areas.




That is the point, yes. Whether Burnley are 4th or 14th, they demonstrate that he have the players to compete with the best in the world. They do it every week. Same goes for Duffy, Coleman, McCarthy, Arter, Clark, Shane Long. I haven’t seen much of Kevin Long to be honest, so sorry for hijacking this thread.

We definitely lack an outstanding talent. A Bale or Eriksen is dreamland, but even a Cambiasso, Defour, Vardy, Zaha standard of player (to pull 4 names out of my arse) would elevate us.


Agree with your last point. We need two players.

One being a decent ball playing midfielder, the other being a player capable of scoring 8-15 Premier League goals a season, we don’t need a superstar to bring us up a level.
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