Hillsborough - Justice |
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roverstillidie
Jack Charlton Bohs number 1 fan Joined: 25 Jun 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8529 |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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FREEWHEELER
Robbie Keane sPICE UP YOUR LIFE Gwan MONROY Joined: 29 Mar 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 24595 |
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More shennanigans and the cops even doctored the fooking ref's statement
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/10/hillsborough-football-chief-under-fire-dave-richards-evidence Edited by Sham157 - 11 Dec 2016 at 2:55pm |
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37960 |
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Criminal charges to be brought against six people including David Duckenfield and Norman Bettison
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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Borussia
Roy Keane Joined: 14 Oct 2010 Location: UK Status: Online Points: 10780 |
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One step closer to justice.
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37960 |
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Duckenfield to be charged with manslaughter as a result of gross negligence
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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Gavintheslob
Jack Charlton It’s Nessa actually Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Location: Slobsville Status: Offline Points: 7300 |
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Justice is finally coming for those families who have suffered so long.
you have to admire them for never giving up
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Its very frustrating being a Slob
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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It really should be murder, it has been a long time coming.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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But "murder"? A simple definition of murder in English Common Law is: "an offence... ... in which one person kills another with the intention to unlawfully cause either death or serious injury." For all the criminal negligence of many agencies on the ground at Hillsborough, and the further clear criminality involved in the post-tragedy cover-up etc, not even the families are claiming that it was anyones intention that those people all died. |
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37384 |
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Agree with Terry here
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Good old English Common Law, the very reason people could only campaign for manslaughter! The law in this country is designed to protect those who need least protection. It will be the same at Grenfell, although I doubt anybody will be prosecuted for even manslaughter there in another example of state sponsored murder.
The bottom line is that these people's lives weren't worth a damn and nearly thirty years on they are worth less.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Where did I say they did? I disagreed with what English Common Law decides is murder, you read that bit? So if I disagree with what the law states then I feel that murder doesn't need to be planned in advance. The police new full well their actions were dangerous and didn't care because they didn't see these people as human, that, to me, is murder.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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So I'll ask you this question instead, whose actions on the day were intended to lead to the deaths of Liverpool fans? |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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I will put this as simply as I can for you. I.DON'T. BELIEVE.THERE.HAS.TO.BE.INTENTION.FOR.MURDER. The police officers may not have 'intended' to kill, they just weren't perturbed that that was the end result.
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Borussia
Roy Keane Joined: 14 Oct 2010 Location: UK Status: Online Points: 10780 |
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Before the conversations go any further, people should be wary of posting on this topic.
As there are charges now pending, you can be well sure that their expensively paid lawyers will be having a good look at forums, twitter etc to try and find things they can use to prove that the people charged cannot get a fair trial.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Fair point. I just believe deliberate negligence is as bad, if not worse, than 'intent' and will leave it there.
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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That's gross negligence manslaughter, and it carries a sentence of up to life imprisonment, like any form of manslaughter. The difference is that the penalty isn't mandatory. Whatever you call it, the label isn't really that important. What counts is the penalty. I'll ask this: should anyone so charged of such an offence necessarily receive life sentences, without any possibility of a lesser sentence, if they are convicted? Whatever you think of their actions and culpability, to say that seems a step too far.
In the US it might be called "fourth degree murder", which is arguably incorrect; in the UK it is called gross negligence manslaughter. Both are forms of unjustified homicide. Murder, by common definition, is the intentional ending of another person's life, with distinctions occasionally made (again, in the US, and not so much here or the UK) between cases where it was premeditated ("first degree"), like an assassination, not premeditated ("second degree"), like an overreaction in a bar fight where you deliberately stab someone in the neck with a broken glass, and, lower still, not premeditated but provoked or a crime of passion ("third degree"), like where you find someone sleeping with your wife and you murder them in a rage. Those are all killings with intention to take a life, or at least cause serious injury; that's why they're called murder. Anything without intention to kill or cause serious injury isn't murder; that doesn't mean it isn't homicide and it doesn't mean it shouldn't be punished. Manslaughter is the usual term in the UK and here; it is still a very, very serious crime, carrying a potential sentence of up to life imprisonment, with the exception that that sentence isn't mandatory. The actions of the police in this case may well have been intentional, i.e., letting the crowd into certain pens and opening certain gates (again, it's for a jury to decide); that doesn't mean that the outcome was intentional. It can be called many things, if proven, but it can't be called murder. It'll be for a jury to decide if they are guilty of manslaughter, but it's not murder. You give out about people using "literally" incorrectly, then you figuratively murder the definition of murder. It's not murder without some manner of intention. To use it otherwise is to do violence to the English language. Edited by SuperDave84 - 28 Jun 2017 at 3:55pm |
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