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Waterford may go.

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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 9:22am
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Would love to see Galway Utd back in the league. Hopefully Mervue and salthill will drop out too.


Mervue and Salthill are where they are by right. Waterford are also where they are by right.

If you want to be in the top division, you have to show that you can meet the standard on the pitch. For the past 5 years, Waterford haven't met that standard, and until they do when the regular season is completed, they're not entitled to play with the big teams.

I totally reject out of hand the idea of league playoffs for anything. It's supposed to be a league. If after 8 months, you've achieved your targets, congratulations. If you haven't, you can try again next year. If you go bust, you go bust. There were many before you, and there will be many more after you. Football is a dog-eat-dog sport. It's not GAA you're playing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:50am
Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

An All Ireland league is the solution
No it's not
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gazelle. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:24pm

Originally posted by domo32GUST domo32GUST wrote:

Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Originally posted by Jason Kelly Jason Kelly wrote:

Beat me too it Those 2 Galway clubs are a joke alright, get rid of them and bring back Ramblers. One tier league should be the way to go.
Would love to see Queenstown back. I think GUST are applying for a licence too. Defiantly need a one tiered league for the next few years. It would hugely benefit the small clubs to have the likes of Sligo, Rovers and Cork visiting.Big clubs won't want it though. Shamrock Rovers want a 10 team premier again ffs. Every time it's tried it gets changed back again. Playing the same team four times a year is a joke.
Your correct,GUST will be applying for a licence next season
Good luck to ye. Would love to see Galway Utd back in the league. Hopefully Mervue and salthill will drop out too. 



Edited by gazelle. - 27 Aug 2012 at 11:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote domo32GUST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:


Originally posted by Jason Kelly Jason Kelly wrote:

Beat me too it 

Those 2 Galway clubs are a joke alright, get rid of them and bring back Ramblers. 

One tier league should be the way to go.
Would love to see Queenstown back. I think GUST are applying for a licence too. 

Defiantly need a one tiered league for the next few years. It would hugely benefit the small clubs to have the likes of Sligo, Rovers and Cork visiting.

Big clubs won't want it though. Shamrock Rovers want a 10 team premier again ffs. Every time it's tried it gets changed back again. Playing the same team four times a year is a joke.
Your correct,GUST will be applying for a licence next season
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerryfromkerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:11pm
An All Ireland league is the solution
No man has the right to fix the boundary to the march of a nation. No man has the right to say to his country “thus far shalt thou go and no further"
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoneToShowgies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:46pm
One things for sure. JD wont be happy that his home town club and the team he supports is standing up to the FAI. Interesting to see how that side of things pans out.  
 
tbh Im not sure a 16 or 18 team league is a good idea. Not that I wouldnt want one, far from it, but if they are going to change it, it needs to be from the top down and not for almost the sake of it and to just kick the can down the road and change it back in a few years. Clubs and fans cant agree and are confused becuase there simply hasnt been a definitive plan laid out by the FAI.
 
Call me cynical but if Waterford were in a guarenteed promotion spot this season I have me doubts they would be going down this road. Make no bones about it, every club is out for themselves and the FAI is out for itself.
 
A few things on a expanded league:
- Seeing clubs geting hammered in a 1 team league will ruin it and make it a jokeshop (we hammered Galway 8-nil in Terryland last season. Dont get me wrong I cheered every goal and its great to get one over on them Crusties. But at the same time it didnt feel right)
- No relegation for a few season just cant happen imo. Half a dozen teams will cut their budget to zip cause they have nothing to play for. Which will mean even bigger hammerings from full time teams.
- This argument of 'we will get bigger gates' against the big teams. FFS it wil be a few gates per season, not exactly the gravy train people think or hope imo.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 4:26pm
I see A. Ineista is sponsoring his home town club Albacete who are in financial trouble....... the gauntlet is handed over to Messrs. O'Shea and Hunt to spare a few crumbs from the rich mans table.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintjoey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Originally posted by saintjoey saintjoey wrote:

one team league is a no go, how ya can give someone in the bottom half a euruopean place and someone who finishes 4th nothing? if that happened attendances would be a record low by september

Who said anything about giving bottom half clubs a euro spot? The bottom half of an 18 team league is 9th and lower. The play offs would be 3rd through to 6th. 

Play offs aren't neccessarily fair, but they are interesting and they draw crowds. Just look at the english football league. 

sorry read that wrong, ya would still have 8 clubs with nothing to play for every season there crowds would slip to nothing imo and i include the big clubs in that if we managed to have such a bad season dropping to 14th in the league by september id say even the derby games would only have 1,000 at it.

id love an 18/20 team premier league with 3 teams going down, keeping the whole league competitive with your play off idea but its never going to happen here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Are you saying you don't believe that Wayerford cannot survive another year in a 7 team first division? I don't think there is much clubs in the league who could survive in a 7 team first division. Especially when two of those clubs are Salthill and Mervue.

I'm saying a single division with no relegation is not the solution. Yes there are major issues with the 1st, but importing them into the PD won't solve them.
 
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

The single tiered division would only be temporary imo. Have it for about 5 years or so. Small teams like Athlone, Waterford, Finn Harps, Limerick and Longford can use this time to build up/get back a fanbase and raise some decent revenue

In other words get Rovers, Pats, Cork and Sligo to subsidise them? Hmmmm.

These clubs are in the 1st division for a reason. What have they done to deserve a place at the top table?

Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:


The meaningless games problem can be sorted out by having the teams that finish 3rd-6th, inclusive, play off- for the final european spot. This would give the top 9 or 10 clubs something to play for and the rest a chance to boost the coffers. 

 
Or keep relegation, fix the first division and stop tinkering.... What will happen is the likes of Mervue (no offence) will be happy to get whapped 7/8 nil half the time, finish bottom, stay in the league and use the money to do up their clubhouse. Its what happened last time there was no relegation.  
 
Long and short of it this 'fix' will suit the small provincial clubs to the direct detriment of the established, bigger clubs. Why should Rovers lose games v Bohs, Pats and Sligo to play Mervue, Wexford and Salthill? You will have to do a lot harder than 'because they are rubbish and need a hand'. With respect, Waterford failing to get promoted 7 years on the spin is not Rovers problem and nor should it become it.
 
Having a league with dead rubber games, hidings being dished out from the full timers to the amateurs every week suits no-one except the amateur sides who get bigger away gates. These clubs aren't important enough to structure the league round. It's harsh, but its life.
 
There is an argument to be made for stabalising the league, but to me this idea has too many negatives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gazelle. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by saintjoey saintjoey wrote:

one team league is a no go, how ya can give someone in the bottom half a euruopean place and someone who finishes 4th nothing? if that happened attendances would be a record low by september

Who said anything about giving bottom half clubs a euro spot? The bottom half of an 18 team league is 9th and lower. The play offs would be 3rd through to 6th. 

Play offs aren't neccessarily fair, but they are interesting and they draw crowds. Just look at the english football league. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deiseblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:52pm
As a Blues fan I am naturally worried about the future survival of the club & totally agree with the club's assertion that given the putative set up of next year's 1st Division they may not survive.

The FAI have a duty to all clubs in both divisions & perhaps the time has come to consider the pros & cons of a 1 tier league in an effort to ensure that the demise of clubs such as Galway United , Cobh RamblerS , Cork City ( the original club ) & Monaghan United comes to an end.

I note that Shamrock Rovers are opposed to a 1 tier league & as they are currently placed 4th in the league & are the 2nd placed team in the Capital after Pats their voice carries considerable weight ,teams such as Rovers should however reflect on their own past difficulties - after all they were effectively homeless for 22 years & only continued to exist due to the willingness of other teams to sublet their grounds to them & of course it was only the forbearance of the FAI that enabled them to continue after they fraudulently lodged accounts from 2003 in 2005 in order to acquire the required license.

I say this not to denigrate Rovers who are a credit to the League & who in recent years have signposted the way forward but to show that even the most successful clubs ( currently ) have required assistance from the FAI & other clubs in the past .

Hopefully , John Delaney with his & his father's long attachment to the Blues will together with the other governing members of the FAI in conjunction with all League clubs will give due consideration to protecting the league & all it's clubs into the future.

Edited by deiseblue - 27 Aug 2012 at 1:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintjoey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:35pm
one team league is a no go, how ya can give someone in the bottom half a euruopean place and someone who finishes 4th nothing? if that happened attendances would be a record low by september
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gazelle. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by corkery corkery wrote:

Originally posted by UCD AFC UCD AFC wrote:

 

Better chance than UCD of doing what exactly?

Getting a fanbase.

This. 

Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:


Waterford can ask my rope. Tried and failed 7 years on the spin to get promoted out of a dire league, now they are trying the boardroom threats approach. Call their bluff John.

Are you saying you don't believe that Wayerford cannot survive another year in a 7 team first division? I don't think there is much clubs in the league who could survive in a 7 team first division. Especially when two of those clubs are Salthill and Mervue.

Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

A 16 team PD was a disaster before and will be a disaster again. No relegation leads to total stagnation with 12 of the teams knowing they can hang on in there year after year while the top 4 fight it out for Europe. Imagine a league where 75% of games are meaningless with lower crowds. How on earth is that the way forward?

The single tiered division would only be temporary imo. Have it for about 5 years or so. Small teams like Athlone, Waterford, Finn Harps, Limerick and Longford can use this time to build up/get back a fanbase and raise some decent revenue. 



The meaningless games problem can be sorted out by having the teams that finish 3rd-6th, inclusive, play off- for the final european spot. This would give the top 9 or 10 clubs something to play for and the rest a chance to boost the coffers. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 8:56am

Waterford can ask my rope. Tried and failed 7 years on the spin to get promoted out of a dire league, now they are trying the boardroom threats approach. Call their bluff John.

A 16 team PD was a disaster before and will be a disaster again. No relegation leads to total stagnation with 12 of the teams knowing they can hang on in there year after year while the top 4 fight it out for Europe. Imagine a league where 75% of games are meaningless with lower crowds. How on earth is that the way forward?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Landon Donovan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 2:02am

Originally posted by TBWRA TBWRA wrote:

UCD are the real model produce players year after year educate players have good training facilites and never over spend they are the best asset the league has

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Bray as well for the amount of young players they bring through. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TBWRA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 1:46am
UCD are the real model produce players year after year educate players have good training facilites and never over spend they are the best asset the league has
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corkery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 1:20am
Originally posted by UCD AFC UCD AFC wrote:

Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Originally posted by UCD AFC UCD AFC wrote:

why would small teams in Prem want it either? sham rvs coming to town twice or rvs once and SD Galway?
Would you feel the same way if UCD get relegated this year I wonder?


Gammy teams like Salthill and Mervue couldn't be included. AFAIK they are dropping out at the end of this year anyway.

Not giving my opinion, just pointing out not only big clubs would be against it


Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:




The single division would be to benefit the likes of Waterford, Limerick, Longford, Athlone and Finn Harps. Clubs that could be mid table premier sides or better if they were given the chance to get the benefits of having the big boys in town. They'd have a better chance than UCD anyway. 


The survival of these clubs could depend on a single division as Waterfords chairman has already stated.




Better chance than UCD of doing what exactly?

Getting a fanbase.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The U Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:58am
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Originally posted by UCD AFC UCD AFC wrote:

why would small teams in Prem want it either? sham rvs coming to town twice or rvs once and SD Galway?
Would you feel the same way if UCD get relegated this year I wonder?


Gammy teams like Salthill and Mervue couldn't be included. AFAIK they are dropping out at the end of this year anyway.

Not giving my opinion, just pointing out not only big clubs would be against it


Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:




The single division would be to benefit the likes of Waterford, Limerick, Longford, Athlone and Finn Harps. Clubs that could be mid table premier sides or better if they were given the chance to get the benefits of having the big boys in town. They'd have a better chance than UCD anyway. 


The survival of these clubs could depend on a single division as Waterfords chairman has already stated.




Better chance than UCD of doing what exactly? The only point I can see you're making is they'd be better than UCD if they had more money? which is ridiculous if that's what you're getting at
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