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Waterford may go.

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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wheelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 8:22am

I must say, fair play to waterford.

 

Really wish more clubs would stand up and speak out!

 

The league is an absolute joke – it has never been so bad in the last 25 years – and it’s just getting worse.

 

Something drastic has to be done – if things are left as they are its just going to keep getting worse –so anything is worth a try at this stage

 

A 1 division league for a couple of years is worth a go, nothing to lose by trying! (though I obviously also do see the disadvantages of it too)–with strict conditions for club to get their house in order – or at least to be trying to get their house in order as some will take longer than others– eg no matter what a clubs income is,  only 10% of income should be allowed be spent on wages, 30% on ground improvement fund, 30% on youth set ups, etc – not saying those exact figures, but you get the idea (and may be different percentages for clubs on off the pitch stuff, but I’d stick with the same % of income on wages for all clubs – and keep it at a low %).

 

Do that for 3 years or so, then go back to the 2 division league with hopefully some other junior clubs like tralee or cobh been able to join up! (and have the same strict expenditure restrictions)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deiseblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 7:46am
Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:


Originally posted by deiseblue deiseblue wrote:



Of course they could have been thrown out - it would have caused huge disruption but the league would have continued as it did when Mons packed up mid season.

Rovers of all clubs must surely realise that their continued existence is due to the forbearance of the FAI & the good will of other Dublin clubs including their avowed foes - the Boheeez who made their grounds available to the Hoops during their 22 homeless years to ensure their future as a club.

The moral high ground is not a fit place for Rovers to occupy in this argument , given their recent history their attitude should surely be - there but for the grace of God go I.


What forbearance from the FAI? Other than backing us up versus the bigots, we got hee haw from them, starting with refusing to buy Milltown a couple of years after buying Dalyer. Spare us.

Grace of God my hole. We are where we are through hard work, learning the hard way, good luck and talented people in the right place at the right time. 

This is so petty and pathetic its unreal. 


Waterford are , to my mind , correctly pointing out that a 1 tier League May be the way to go - sure it may be in the Blues best interests to do so but that does not necessarily diminish the argument.

The reason that I particularly referenced Rovers was due to your comment that Waterford could ask your " rope " & I got the distinct impression that Waterford may get a more reasonable response from the FAI than from your " rope " - the forbearance that I referred to shown by the FAI towards Rovers was when Rovers fraudulently lodged 2003 accounts for the 2005 season ( I do apologise for seemingly repeating this point ad nauseam ) - but it's an important point & let's hope the FAI & league clubs show the same sense of forbearance & understanding when it comes to discussing the League set up for next season & thereafter.

I think Waterford have outlined the financial implications for the club vis a vis the putative 1st Division set up next season & as such I think their stance smacks more of realism than blackmail .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

 

eh no, the fai kept waterford up in 2006 by not relegating them despite them losing the relegation/promotion play off, galway would have benifited from shelbournes demotion but that whole story is for a different thread

Don't waste your time with facts. The reason Waterford are where they are is because Rovers are out to get them. Or something
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by deiseblue deiseblue wrote:



Of course they could have been thrown out - it would have caused huge disruption but the league would have continued as it did when Mons packed up mid season.

Rovers of all clubs must surely realise that their continued existence is due to the forbearance of the FAI & the good will of other Dublin clubs including their avowed foes - the Boheeez who made their grounds available to the Hoops during their 22 homeless years to ensure their future as a club.

The moral high ground is not a fit place for Rovers to occupy in this argument , given their recent history their attitude should surely be - there but for the grace of God go I.

What forbearance from the FAI? Other than backing us up versus the bigots, we got hee haw from them, starting with refusing to buy Milltown a couple of years after buying Dalyer. Spare us.

Grace of God my hole. We are where we are through hard work, learning the hard way, good luck and talented people in the right place at the right time. 

This is so petty and pathetic its unreal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by deiseblue deiseblue wrote:

 
It should also be pointed out that Rovers effectively went bust when they frauduently submitted 2003 accounts for the 2005 season in an effort to gain the required license , it actually got to the stage where they were pursued by a laundrette as they refused to pay their laundry bill.

Rovers didn't go bust, effectively or really. We took our medicine, sorted it out and are now the best supported club side on the island. Should we apoligise for this?

Originally posted by deiseblue deiseblue wrote:

  It should also be pointed out that Rovers were effectively homeless for 22 years & it was only through the good will of other LOI clubs ( including Bohs ) that Rovers survived.
 

But we never, ever, tried to blackmail the FAI into changing the league structure due to our failure to get a permanent home in those 22 years. Bohs let us play in Dalyer because they needed the money, not out of sporting ecumenism.

You are inferring the stance you think Rovers are taking is done to spite you. Oh dear.

Originally posted by deiseblue deiseblue wrote:

  I do appreciate that Rovers as currently the 4th placed team in the country & the second highest placed in Dublin after Pats do have a major say in how the League should be run but they should also remember their own chequered financial & ground sharing history before taking the moral high ground.

There is no moral high ground. One newspaper article SPECULATED Rovers would be opposed to importing the first division problems into the Premier. 

It is exceptionally unfair, and if I might suggest a tactical blunder, to turn this into a Rovers (or whoever) versus the rest dispute. You have a version for Irish football that suits your club. Rovers, it is reported as gossip, have another. Spare me the drama in claiming that Rovers following their interests is somehow malicious when you are doing the same. Quite frankly, your failure to get promoted 6 years on the spin is not the rest of ours problem

There are legitimate arguments for and against what you are proposing. But there is a stench of using the boardroom to do what you failed time and time again to achieve on the pitch, despite having essentially the same help as Rovers in terms of a good, municipal facility. 

If you turn this into the pissy fight your club seem to be gearing up to turn it into, then the rest will close ranks. 


Edited by roverstillidie - 28 Aug 2012 at 11:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deiseblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Rovers couldn't have been thrown out of the 2005 season, as it had already started by the time the result of it was applied. Instead the club lost it's licence, were deducted 8 points, and Waterford stayed up. 



Of course they could have been thrown out - it would have caused huge disruption but the league would have continued as it did when Mons packed up mid season.

Rovers of all clubs must surely realise that their continued existence is due to the forbearance of the FAI & the good will of other Dublin clubs including their avowed foes - the Boheeez who made their grounds available to the Hoops during their 22 homeless years to ensure their future as a club.

The moral high ground is not a fit place for Rovers to occupy in this argument , given their recent history their attitude should surely be - there but for the grace of God go I.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

In 2005, Rovers kept Waterford up, courtesy of receiving an 8-point penalty for the above. The following year, Shels kept Waterford up, by having their licence overturned. In 2007, Waterford could have stayed up via the playoff system, lost it, and haven't been back since.

We live in 2012 now, and there are no free passes to the top division anymore. Rovers and Shels are back up. Waterford are welcome to play Rovers, Shels and everyone else on a weekly basis when they meet the required standard on the pitch.


eh no, the fai kept waterford up in 2006 by not relegating them despite them losing the relegation/promotion play off, galway would have benifited from shelbournes demotion but that whole story is for a different thread

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 8:00pm
Rovers couldn't have been thrown out of the 2005 season, as it had already started by the time the result of it was applied. Instead the club lost it's licence, were deducted 8 points, and Waterford stayed up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deiseblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

A club goes "bust" when it goes under. Neither Rovers nor Shels went bust, but faced the consequences of failure on the pitch and mismanagement off it. They sorted themselves out and are back in the top division, as are Cork and Derry. Waterford have to do the same. If it takes 5 years or 50 years for them to do it, so be it.

I would rather expand the first division to 12/14 clubs and let them play home and away once, with an extended mid-season break. The clubs who make up the expansion are introduced to the league at low-cost, while the others who were there before, only have to travel to far-flung places once a year. The top flight clubs have to play during the summer because of Europe. The lower division clubs don't have to. 




I really wish I could agree with you as I think that at the time it would have been a huge mistake if Rovers had been ejected from the League.

The facts are however different - Rovers frauduently submitted 2003 accounts for season 2005 & as such should have been summarily thrown out - however common sense prevailed & they were given time to sort themselves out - which to their immense credit they did.

Waterford's argument at the very least deserves the same consideration in their attempt to survive , particularly as they never ( as I have already pointed out ) so flagrantly breached FAi regulations as did the Hoops & Shels
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:31pm
A club goes "bust" when it goes under. Neither Rovers nor Shels went bust, but faced the consequences of failure on the pitch and mismanagement off it. They sorted themselves out and are back in the top division, as are Cork and Derry. Waterford have to do the same. If it takes 5 years or 50 years for them to do it, so be it.

I would rather expand the first division to 12/14 clubs and let them play home and away once, with an extended mid-season break. The clubs who make up the expansion are introduced to the league at low-cost, while the others who were there before, only have to travel to far-flung places once a year. The top flight clubs have to play during the summer because of Europe. The lower division clubs don't have to. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deiseblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

In 2005, Rovers kept Waterford up, courtesy of receiving an 8-point penalty for the above. The following year, Shels kept Waterford up, by having their licence overturned. In 2007, Waterford could have stayed up via the playoff system, lost it, and haven't been back since.

We live in 2012 now, and there are no free passes to the top division anymore. Rovers and Shels are back up. Waterford are welcome to play Rovers, Shels and everyone else on a weekly basis when they meet the required standard on the pitch.




Of course you are right - we are where are .

However , if the argument is that if you go bust then you go bust then Rovers & Shels should have summarily been thrown out of the league years ago - not an argument that I agree with as I hate to see clubs go under .

Waterford are arguing that if they are condemned to spending next season in the 1st division then financially they may not be able to continue & as such are arguing that a 1 tier league maybe the way forward - a point worth considering perhaps - it should be pointed out that unlike Rovers & Shels the Blues have not flagrantly abused FAI rules & as such their argument should carry some weight & hopefully John Delaney will rember his roots !



Edited by deiseblue - 28 Aug 2012 at 6:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 5:58pm
In 2005, Rovers kept Waterford up, courtesy of receiving an 8-point penalty for the above. The following year, Shels kept Waterford up, by having their licence overturned. In 2007, Waterford could have stayed up via the playoff system, lost it, and haven't been back since.

We live in 2012 now, and there are no free passes to the top division anymore. Rovers and Shels are back up. Waterford are welcome to play Rovers, Shels and everyone else on a weekly basis when they meet the required standard on the pitch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deiseblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Would love to see Galway Utd back in the league. Hopefully Mervue and salthill will drop out too.


Mervue and Salthill are where they are by right. Waterford are also where they are by right.

If
you want to be in the top division, you have to show that you can meet
the standard on the pitch. For the past 5 years, Waterford haven't met
that standard, and until they do when the regular season is completed,
they're not entitled to play with the big teams.

I totally
reject out of hand the idea of league playoffs for anything. It's
supposed to be a league. If after 8 months, you've achieved your
targets, congratulations. If you haven't, you can try again next year.
If you go bust, you go bust. There were many before you, and there will
be many more after you. Football is a dog-eat-dog sport. It's not GAA
you're playing.




It should also be pointed out that Rovers effectively went bust when they frauduently submitted 2003 accounts for the 2005 season in an effort to gain the required license , it actually got to the stage where they were pursued by a laundrette as they refused to pay their laundry bill.

It should also be pointed out that Rovers were effectively homeless for 22 years & it was only through the good will of other LOI clubs ( including Bohs ) that Rovers survived.

I do appreciate that Rovers as currently the 4th placed team in the country & the second highest placed in Dublin after Pats do have a major say in how the League should be run but they should also remember their own chequered financial & ground sharing history before taking the moral high ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corkery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by Wheelo Wheelo wrote:

Originally posted by Dukla Dukla wrote:

Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

An All Ireland league is the solution


IFA would never be in favor of it.
 

Never mind the IFA, but the majority of supporters up there don’t want it (and wouldn’t support it either)



Why could a Cliftonville fan give up European spots to go to Waterford on a Tuesday night.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wheelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by Dukla Dukla wrote:

Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

An All Ireland league is the solution


IFA would never be in favor of it.
 

Never mind the IFA, but the majority of supporters up there don’t want it (and wouldn’t support it either)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote domo32GUST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:


Originally posted by domo32GUST domo32GUST wrote:

Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Originally posted by Jason Kelly Jason Kelly wrote:

Beat me too it Those 2 Galway clubs are a joke alright, get rid of them and bring back Ramblers. One tier league should be the way to go.
Would love to see Queenstown back. I think GUST are applying for a licence too. Defiantly need a one tiered league for the next few years. It would hugely benefit the small clubs to have the likes of Sligo, Rovers and Cork visiting.Big clubs won't want it though. Shamrock Rovers want a 10 team premier again ffs. Every time it's tried it gets changed back again. Playing the same team four times a year is a joke.
Your correct,GUST will be applying for a licence next season
Good luck to ye. Would love to see Galway Utd back in the league. Hopefully Mervue and salthill will drop out too. 

thanks for that gazelle, the process starts this Saturday 1st September when our U19's play their first league game v Mervue Utd at 7:30PM in Eamon Deacy Park
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dukla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

An All Ireland league is the solution


IFA would never be in favor of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clonbhoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Lifted this lengthy post from BTID, courtesy of the poster ' Bluebeard' there. 

A lot of valid points, and a few concrete suggestions to go with them; 



I know that all of us have, over the years and even this season, had various gripes with the club about different things, but I think that we are truly united behind the club on this. Something clearly needs to be done. A discussion must take place. However, it appears that without the threat of action, nothing will happen. It may seem a risky strategy - none of us want the club to leave the league - but there are no rewards without risk. The League needs to see that changing from 10 to 12 in the top division every couple of years is not fixing things for very many. If everyone acts like there is no problem, nothing will change. 

I am reminded of that famous Primo Levi line from a much more gruesome circumstance: When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, because I was not a Jew. While in no way does this circumstance bear comparison in terms of tragedy and loss, one does see the parallel in that many clubs are not in trouble and are doing nothing, because they are not in trouble. 

I don't disagree with some of the core concepts behind the push for 10 or 12. Largely, I think that the theory is that the league of ten will have more of the better players playing more of the better players more often, and therefore they should get better and therefore these teams will be able to do better in Europe. This is not fuzzy thinking - we have a smaller pool that is regularly looted and it largely needs to be concentrated in order to improve. However it is plagued with fuzzy timing. Small team top tiers work best in countries with some of the following characteristics: small in physical size with the clubs close together: a smaller population; there is a reasonable chance of national team players playing in their national league; there is the money to bring in people from abroad; there is genuine support at home for the local clubs fromm both fans and other clubs. Right now, very few of these things apply - our clubs are (rightly in my opinion) scattered throughout the land but sadly, there is a glut of location for the majority in the top division. This is leading to a massive move of talent to Dublin, but also to the top regional clubs dominating their region to the exclusion of the others in the area, which in turn has lead to the departure of players from places like Limerick (to Cork), Athlone (lately to Longford) and Donegal (Derry) for example. Weaker players = less support = smaller income = poorer facilities / incentive to stay = even the weaker players depart. And it gets worse from there. Athlone, which has a good tradition, and had great support is in the doldrums for decades. Similarly Limerick and Finn Harps. We lose out to Cork too, and that doesn't help us. 

The consequent tradition of not bothering about your local club is being exported to the major cities thanks to the recent trend of internal immigration: as a result the clubs there will lose out too. In the Irish context - a world where the local is celebrated above the national (CF the localised Olympic celebrations, the success of the club and county structure of the GAA, the fact that the Examiner is considered a national daily, the mistrust of "that shower in the Dail in Dublin") - we need to find an Irish solution to the problem.

The first thing is to identify the problem. While I may bang on about success in Europe, and the grail that is the co-efficient, the truth is that improving the co-efficient will solve no problems. The problem is not European standing, it is Irish standing. We need to focus on making the league a thing of value. While doing well in Europe will do something towards that, we have seen repeatedly that this is not enough. Tallaght is motivated about Rovers, but that predated the Europa Cup run. And having only one club doing well with an enthusiastic fan base is simply not enough - we saw how that castrated the league in the 1980s - the last time Rovers dominated. For the league to succeed with the public, there have to be a lot of clubs doing well attendance wise.

We need to look at one of the core ideas of the Italian thinker Gramsci: what benefits the weaker in society will benefit the stronger. Then there is that hoary old chestnut: a herd is only as fast as it's slowest buffalo. We need to embrace this kind of thinking rather than this attitude that as long as we are OK, then I don't care: the reality should be "but for the grace of god, there go I". 

I would suggest that we need to completely rethink football in the country. More specifically we need to do the following things to help develop the league:

1. Single tier for the next five years. The clubs need to be in a more stable position than they currently are, in order to get themselves in order. Look at how quickly Longford collapsed on returning to the First, and look how well Bray and Drogheda have returned by the fortune of staying up in spite of their performance. A couple of years of stability and a guarantee of a few teams coming that people might want to see should benefit them all.
A single tier for five years to get clubs to get their house in order is just lunacy. What difference does the size of the league have? How will a dozen teams with nothing to play for in a 18/20 team league help anyone. I cannot see the logic in this.

2. Talk to the people. If we have this period of enforced stability, we need to use it to see what people want. A lot of work needs to be put in to explore what the public wants, what the clubs need, what the players think. This should be ongoing over the period of the five years as attitudes might change in the different circumstances. Most importantly, this needs to continue AFTER any recommended changes are made. Clubs need to take a lead in this too.
This would be great.It is obvious but little has been done in this regard. Mooney was great at it but he has now left.

3. Properly explore the way the following leagues have developed:
Tippiligaen, Norway - no followers 30 years ago as everyone followed English football, has recently had regular bursts of success on European stage, doing pretty well attendance wise 
MLS, USA - rising in popularlity in a country where it is fifth favourite team sport, very new league, lost two major teams in 2000 or thereabouts, now stronger than ever before in terms of representation and attendance, v. different approach to running football
Erste Liga, Austria - Country is very similar to Ireland in many ways, in shadow of far more illustrious neighbor, successful past haunts it.
Superliga, Denmark - Country is very similar to Ireland in many ways, completely restructured the league about 20 years ago, with some success, shadow of English football
There are plenty of other leagues that probably bear a lot of exploring too, but these were the ones that came first to mind
Agreed
4. Junior leagues MUST be involved. At the moment, the junior clubs generally despise their senior counterparts, largely as they see them as rivals for the big English monies. Both the league clubs and the junior clubs as fools - the English millionaires are paying pittances for kids compared to what they will throw them off for. Alan Bennett went for maybe a quarter of a million. Before he'd played a game in England, Staunton capped him - he hadn't improved THAT much. What current internationals are available in England for under 4 or 5 million? The local clubs must make proper connections with the local leagues - getting promoted to your League of Ireland club needs to be seen as a vital step for any junior player on the road to the target of a professional contract somewhere foreign. I would also suggest that local and regional coaches be situated in the local league club where possible, with certain evenings of the week where they are available to the various local leagues to train the Oscar Traynor team, or exceptional prospects. Something realy needs to be done about the registration issue too.
Agreed. clubs haven't helped in this, constantly treating these clubs with disdain when trying to take their players from them for a pittance and then complaining when foreign teams do the same. I also believe a national pyramid will aid in seeing the progression of moving up. In Scotland the pyramid structure(which still badly needs an on the pitch promotion and relegation system between league and non league) gives players a clear benchmark as to where they  want to play. They have a thriving junior system and while their league system needa a lot of adjusting, it is still light years away from ours.

5. Genuinely explore the case for Franchises. I think we all have ideas about what we think franchised football is. MK Dons is one example that comes to mind, Galway being promoted on the back of a DVD is another. Those are two of the least palateable ways that these things could go. I look a lot a the MLS - which is far from perfect - but clubs don't get shifted around. Indeed, the league is helping to develop those clubs in some ways, and keeping a close look at certain of their off-the-field activities - the easy to spot example is a standardisation of their websites, and easy linking between them. I am not saying that we should go down this road, but in unfranchised football we currently have 7 of 11 top tier clubs within 30 minutes of the M50, and Dundalk not much further again - that's not great either.
It has been tried too, Sporting Fingal? Kildare county? Franchising isn't going to solve the problem of a centralised league. Strong teams in cork,Sligo, Galway, Waterford, Derry, Athlone and Limerick would be  great for the league. We need to solve it. Making new teams out of thin air won't help. where would you even locate them? All the towns capable of having a LOI team have one, or are we suggesting we get rid of well run teams to suit this idea because of badly run ones?
6. International Knowhow. One of the more interesting things in the book Soccernomics, is the discussion of the networks of European football. The more successful nations were the ones that were more connected to the major networks shooting out from Germany, the Netherlands and Italy. This is why divided and small Belgium used to do so well, caught right in the middle. We are generally very isolated. We connect with Britain, chiefly England, and none other. We need to be harnessing some of the European knowhow. We need to bring in the coaches from the Netherlands or whereever, on a long term basis. We need to explore routes OTHER than the British ones. Some guy in the Indo made an interesting point - Trap's footballing style with the national team is dull and unexciting, but the Irish are filled with divilment - that should be considered. Trap doesn't know the Irish people, he knows English style football, and he plays accordingly to that expectation. We need to stop comparing all our football to the British or English style (which these days still exists in League 1 and lower, or Scotland, tbh), and figure out what we would like to see. Bingo!! We need to remove the merry-go-round that sees the same managers(and players) swapping jobs. We need fresh ideas and players developing through a different approach and with the view to them playing in a different culture
Similarly, off the field, we need to explore the other ways clubs are run abroad. For example, Barca are a multiple sports club, with volleyball, basketball and other programmes - why not us too, and boost our basketball or volleyball or athletics programmes in the country, the league clubs are well placed for doing this, there may even be grants available. We need to explore how clubs are run as a business in the US (where it is nearly a science), how they relate to their communities, and their schools. We are lucky in this at Waterford in that we have plucked ourselves an expert from Britain for the commercial side, and we have developed a lot with WIT. But I would guess there is still more we can do (PADDY'S DAY FLOAT!) and that is probably true for other league clubs.
Is there not some link now between UL and Limerick and ucd? This is a good start. Didn't Shams have a link with a basketball team? I think exploring the links between local ITs and colleges are a great idea, sports that are truly minority in Ireland linking themselves to a league that is minority isn't going to help.
7. Marquee Players. We have seen the effect of a high calibre player like Joe N'Do and how he has lifted whatever club he is at. Similarly so with Charles Livingston Mbabzi, or Joe Gamble, or a few of the bigger money or international players who have come over to the league. In the past, the Blues did this with Bobby Charlton Bobby Tambling, Peter Thomas, Jose Quitongo, etc. It gives a boost to the club, and to the league. They might not be amazing all the time but it lifts all. Irish Cricket has done this too, with one of the Cronjie's being signed up for a few years. Not only does it give a lift, but it also passes on the knowledge the player has and connects to those networks I mention above. It has really built up the MLS. I would suggest that some of the money should be made available for each club to be exclusively used to hire or pay the difference in wage to a Marquee Player who is entitled to a greater wage than he might otherwise get. If all the clubs had one, be it former international, incredibly hot prospect, someone from a different world of football, unique flair player, whatever, it could lift the lot. These players would obviously have to be full time, with other responibilities than playing - call it the tennis style club professional if you like, but someone that the whole local community should recognise. Hopefully, some of these guys might stay in their communities, and become local coaches with a different perspective on football.Bringing in younger, ambitious  players who want to make a name for themselves is great-see Ryan Guy. Bringing in over the hill stars who are looking for a last few quid-see carlton Palmer. I hope he meant the former

8. Promotion of the League. The league is very much second place to the International team in the FAI's understanding of things. Which is right and makes sense given the response of the Irish public. But that is a response fed by years of nothing on the TV, in the papers, or on billboards about the league, and loads on the Premiership. We cannot stop the BBC or sky airing in Ireland, but we could do something about MNS being on a Monday late night slot for an hour, and the Premiership being primetime weekend viewing. The FAI must surely have some say in this. Even if they don't there is a hell of a lot more that could be done to promote the league than currently is, especially during the International games, when there could be some reference to it. Again, we should see what they did in Norway - their league was a joke in the 80s, now it is well considered, while people still follow the English game.

ClapClap

9. The FAI must be not be above criticism. Look at every guise of Russia - repression of criticism has not helpe it economically, be it Tsars, Stalin or Putin. Lack of criticism means less need for problem solving / appeasing the public means a stagnancy of development. I actually believe that the guys at the top really do want the best for the league, but insulation from the fans and from criticism will not help them. I don't mean that they have to take every criticism on board, but they could do better than repressing all comment.

I'm sure that not all the above alone are the road map to development, but I do think that most of them, particularly the first, will greatly assist in the positioning of the league - and the FAI - on the road to exploring a better future for the league. I have to say that I am very proud to be a Blue in light of the club putting its balls on the line to improve the future of the league - time for the rest to step up to match this. 

The FAI needs reform, not the ability to take criticism. The league obviously needs reform and I don't really see how Waterford pulling out of next years first division will help anyone. There has to be a second tier, there has to be promotion and relegation. Regionalising the second tier is probably the best solution but if Waterford want to suggest something else then do so and get agreeable clubs to join forces with you. A seven team league is farcical but teams pulling out because of it is even worse and you can't help thinking it is because you haven't been good enough to get out





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