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Trap's squad v Serbia
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Kevin Kilbane
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some revisionism on that Israel game here. My recollection was of an awful display by O shea letting the israelis back in. He threw his man into the air to help him connect with a header and then gave away a penalty. O brien sent off by an awful reff. We should still have won it by 2 or 3 and we should have won the first game in israel too.
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don't kid yourself, the 2010 italian team was no great team... nor was the french team in the playoff, and that estonia draw was beyond fortunate...

the russians were very good, but wouldn't be better than the french teams kerr faced.

israel and the swiss were both much better than slovakia or bulgaria.

and don't forget, we got help with armenia picking up points against slovakia...
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fao citizen-agreed kerrs record and achievements at underage level are superb but like breaking up with someone is there a nice way to do it so their feelings/pride are not hurt?
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Originally posted by irelandshirts irelandshirts wrote:

Originally posted by Trapped Trapped wrote:

Originally posted by irelandshirts irelandshirts wrote:

Originally posted by fochie fochie wrote:

So your saying every prem manager should go to the tunnels and watch their team from the monitors ?
 
now now fochie!!23 players in a squad.You may have players from 18 different clubs playing in 4 different leagues on 2 different continents.Factor in injuries or suspensions or players not picked due to form and rotation policies and id say its fairly hard to see all of your players play live all of the time and you would have to rely on dvd footage.
 
You can't truly appreciate a players qualities and strengths until you see them in the flesh in action. That's just a fact of football.
 
Ive only ever seen lionel messi play in the flesh once in my life in the aviva.He wasnt world class in that game if i recall.I watch him every Monday night on the tele playing in Spain and he is world class.Can i describe Messi as the best in the world after only seeing him play once live?
do you have to pick messi for a team and accomodate him in a system that requires a certian positional discipline?
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Originally posted by FREEWHEELER FREEWHEELER wrote:

Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by FREEWHEELER FREEWHEELER wrote:

Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by El_nino El_nino wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

I must have missed all the brilliant football we played under Brian Kerr even though I was at 90% of the matches. His bitching last night was laughable and Ive lost all respect for him he is an embarrasment.

Ya ever opportunity he got last night he was having a pop or throwing sly remarks in.  at one stage Killer looked pretty uncomfortable with what Kerr was saying.
Nothing Kerr was saying was inaccurate though.
 
The way the FAI treated Brian Kerr was absoltuely disgusting. THis is a man who has done more good for Irish football as a whole than trap or Delaney ever will.
 
Hang on a sec.........Kerr didn't deserve a new contract.  He did an ok job after McCarthy left early in the 2004 EC campaign but the last game in Switzerland gave an indication of what was to come in the 2006 WC campaign.  We were listless, directionless and went out with a whimper.  Simiilarly against the Swiss and French at home in 2 massive games in the 2006 campaign, we didn't score in those 2 games (or the aforementioned 2004 Swiss game).  He was out of his depth by then and he had to go at that stage, the players were sick of his methods and quite frankly so were the fans.
 
Yeah he did a great job with the underage set up but that was then..........his continual bitter sniping since then is extremely childish and irritating, he should be better than that sorta nonsense.
we you watching the games against Russia and Slovakia?
 
Armenia beating slovkia and drawing estonia was the two single biggest contributing factors to qulaification. Anyone who is denyign this is kiddign themselves, it was and truly a lack-lustre qualifcation campaign topped off by a embarassingly display at the finals. 
 
We only lost 1 game in kerrs (only proper) campaign. That was against a France team who went on to reach the subsequent world cup final. That is the only difference between Kerr and Trap imo. Both failed spectacularly at home against rival opposition. We were jsut as lacklustre agaisnt the Slovaks at hiome under trap as we were against the swiss under kerr, both were deemed must win games before hand.
 
Kerr has every right to be bitter imo.
 
You may recall Citz that I slated Trap in both the Russia/Slovak home games, particularly the 2nd one, but you stated that Kerr was treated disgracefully by the FAI, he wasn't!   Remember we were 2-0 up and murdering Israel at home?  Robbie got injured and instead of bringing on a straight swop up top, he moved  Duff to centre forward, when Duff had been running RIOT down the left in helping us go 2-0 up.  He brought on Kavanagh and the whole balance of the team suffered.  Result?  We drew 2-2, that was the game for me Kerr hadn't got what it took at that level.
 
Who cares who has the better home/away record?  Trap got us to Poland and a WC play off, Kerr didn't.  6 years of bitterness at this stage Citz, it gets boring after a short while.
do you not think a man whose acheivements with our underage teams are second to none, including two trophys, deserves better that a letter saying his contract is not being renewed and to drop his company car and laptop back asap. He didnt derserve to have his contract renewed but, the manner in which they treated his dismissal was appalling.
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Originally posted by Trapped Trapped wrote:

Originally posted by irelandshirts irelandshirts wrote:

Originally posted by fochie fochie wrote:

So your saying every prem manager should go to the tunnels and watch their team from the monitors ?
 
now now fochie!!23 players in a squad.You may have players from 18 different clubs playing in 4 different leagues on 2 different continents.Factor in injuries or suspensions or players not picked due to form and rotation policies and id say its fairly hard to see all of your players play live all of the time and you would have to rely on dvd footage.
 
You can't truly appreciate a players qualities and strengths until you see them in the flesh in action. That's just a fact of football.
 
Ive only ever seen lionel messi play in the flesh once in my life in the aviva.He wasnt world class in that game if i recall.I watch him every Monday night on the tele playing in Spain and he is world class.Can i describe Messi as the best in the world after only seeing him play once live?
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Originally posted by irelandshirts irelandshirts wrote:

Originally posted by fochie fochie wrote:

So your saying every prem manager should go to the tunnels and watch their team from the monitors ?
 
now now fochie!!23 players in a squad.You may have players from 18 different clubs playing in 4 different leagues on 2 different continents.Factor in injuries or suspensions or players not picked due to form and rotation policies and id say its fairly hard to see all of your players play live all of the time and you would have to rely on dvd footage.
 
You can't truly appreciate a players qualities and strengths until you see them in the flesh in action. That's just a fact of football.
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Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by FREEWHEELER FREEWHEELER wrote:

Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by El_nino El_nino wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

I must have missed all the brilliant football we played under Brian Kerr even though I was at 90% of the matches. His bitching last night was laughable and Ive lost all respect for him he is an embarrasment.

Ya ever opportunity he got last night he was having a pop or throwing sly remarks in.  at one stage Killer looked pretty uncomfortable with what Kerr was saying.
Nothing Kerr was saying was inaccurate though.
 
The way the FAI treated Brian Kerr was absoltuely disgusting. THis is a man who has done more good for Irish football as a whole than trap or Delaney ever will.
 
Hang on a sec.........Kerr didn't deserve a new contract.  He did an ok job after McCarthy left early in the 2004 EC campaign but the last game in Switzerland gave an indication of what was to come in the 2006 WC campaign.  We were listless, directionless and went out with a whimper.  Simiilarly against the Swiss and French at home in 2 massive games in the 2006 campaign, we didn't score in those 2 games (or the aforementioned 2004 Swiss game).  He was out of his depth by then and he had to go at that stage, the players were sick of his methods and quite frankly so were the fans.
 
Yeah he did a great job with the underage set up but that was then..........his continual bitter sniping since then is extremely childish and irritating, he should be better than that sorta nonsense.
we you watching the games against Russia and Slovakia?
 
Armenia beating slovkia and drawing estonia was the two single biggest contributing factors to qulaification. Anyone who is denyign this is kiddign themselves, it was and truly a lack-lustre qualifcation campaign topped off by a embarassingly display at the finals. 
 
We only lost 1 game in kerrs (only proper) campaign. That was against a France team who went on to reach the subsequent world cup final. That is the only difference between Kerr and Trap imo. Both failed spectacularly at home against rival opposition. We were jsut as lacklustre agaisnt the Slovaks at hiome under trap as we were against the swiss under kerr, both were deemed must win games before hand.
 
Kerr has every right to be bitter imo.
 
You may recall Citz that I slated Trap in both the Russia/Slovak home games, particularly the 2nd one, but you stated that Kerr was treated disgracefully by the FAI, he wasn't!   Remember we were 2-0 up and murdering Israel at home?  Robbie got injured and instead of bringing on a straight swop up top, he moved  Duff to centre forward, when Duff had been running RIOT down the left in helping us go 2-0 up.  He brought on Kavanagh and the whole balance of the team suffered.  Result?  We drew 2-2, that was the game for me Kerr hadn't got what it took at that level.
 
Who cares who has the better home/away record?  Trap got us to Poland and a WC play off, Kerr didn't.  6 years of bitterness at this stage Citz, it gets boring after a short while.
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Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Messy game, with poor passing and players struggling for fitness but you would expect that from a game at this time of year.

I thought McGeady, McCarthy and Westwood did well. 
Good to see the team passing the ball around, however we did not look like scoring at all.
Walters was isolated up top and needs more support.

McClean gave the ball away a lot and make the wrong choice too many times. He is also not a central midfielder.

It would be good to see how we play with a full squad, we have another 2 games to try and get use to this system before the Germany game with Kazakhstan and Oman.

I believe if we had of played 4-4-2 last night we would have won the game comfortably.

 
don't agree with that at all, we have never won any game comfortably playing 4-4-2. We looked far morea ssured defensively and in midfield playing with a packed midfield. We actually had the ability to counter, albeit ineffectively at times.
Exactly. If we played 4-4-2 like we normally do we would've been camped in our own half with two deep lying centre midfielders afraid to pass the ball or make any runs up the pitch. Our attacks would've consisted of hoof balls from O'Dea up to Walters and the wingers would've been expected to deliver the creativity while being double-marked for the whole match. I don't think 4-4-2 is the worst formation or outdated as some people say but Ireland's version of 4-4-2 is shockingly bad.
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Originally posted by FREEWHEELER FREEWHEELER wrote:

Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by El_nino El_nino wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

I must have missed all the brilliant football we played under Brian Kerr even though I was at 90% of the matches. His bitching last night was laughable and Ive lost all respect for him he is an embarrasment.

Ya ever opportunity he got last night he was having a pop or throwing sly remarks in.  at one stage Killer looked pretty uncomfortable with what Kerr was saying.
Nothing Kerr was saying was inaccurate though.
 
The way the FAI treated Brian Kerr was absoltuely disgusting. THis is a man who has done more good for Irish football as a whole than trap or Delaney ever will.
 
Hang on a sec.........Kerr didn't deserve a new contract.  He did an ok job after McCarthy left early in the 2004 EC campaign but the last game in Switzerland gave an indication of what was to come in the 2006 WC campaign.  We were listless, directionless and went out with a whimper.  Simiilarly against the Swiss and French at home in 2 massive games in the 2006 campaign, we didn't score in those 2 games (or the aforementioned 2004 Swiss game).  He was out of his depth by then and he had to go at that stage, the players were sick of his methods and quite frankly so were the fans.
 
Yeah he did a great job with the underage set up but that was then..........his continual bitter sniping since then is extremely childish and irritating, he should be better than that sorta nonsense.
we you watching the games against Russia and Slovakia?
 
Armenia beating slovkia and drawing estonia was the two single biggest contributing factors to qulaification. Anyone who is denyign this is kiddign themselves, it was and truly a lack-lustre qualifcation campaign topped off by a embarassingly display at the finals. 
 
We only lost 1 game in kerrs (only proper) campaign. That was against a France team who went on to reach the subsequent world cup final. That is the only difference between Kerr and Trap imo. Both failed spectacularly at home against rival opposition. We were jsut as lacklustre agaisnt the Slovaks at hiome under trap as we were against the swiss under kerr, both were deemed must win games before hand.
 
Kerr has every right to be bitter imo.
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Originally posted by TheMightyQuinn TheMightyQuinn wrote:

to be fair to kerr, trap has been handed 2 fairly easy groups.... and we were lucky to catch our tough seeds on bad years..

to traps credit, his attention to detail and levels of organization help prevent giving up stupid goals, as well as late ones.

traps level of professionalism has been a big asset, and future managers need to build on that, but it would be nice to see a bigger effort made towards scouting, recruitment, and expanding our "schema"
 
If they were easy groups, I'd hate to have seen a tough wan Jaysus.........top seeds in our 2010 WC group were Italy, the reigning World Champions and our Euro 2012  top seed contained Russia (Euro 2008 semi finalists).  We drew twice with Italy and coulda/shoulda won one/both of those games.  Russia exposed Trap's system in Dublin and killed us in Moscow apart from Shay and especially Dunne's heroics.  We did well to get runners up to both those teams in those groups.  Kerr's teams went down with whimpers and that for me was unforgiveable.
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to be fair to kerr, trap has been handed 2 fairly easy groups.... and we were lucky to catch our tough seeds on bad years..

to traps credit, his attention to detail and levels of organization help prevent giving up stupid goals, as well as late ones.

traps level of professionalism has been a big asset, and future managers need to build on that, but it would be nice to see a bigger effort made towards scouting, recruitment, and expanding our "schema"
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Originally posted by Ireland4ever Ireland4ever wrote:

Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by RogerMilla RogerMilla wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Kerr used to go to as many games as he could, sometimes more than one in a single day.
how did that work out?
That is a failed logic. 
 
Just because a manager with an average record for us did the correct thing does not mean a good manager should not do it. 
 
If its the right thing to do its the right thing to do.  The results do not make everythign you do wrong or right. 
 
 
correct
traps record statistically only marginally better than Kerrs.

Lies damn lies and statistics -  2 play offs and one qualification .
Kerr finished 3rd and 4th in his two campaigns, despite still being in with a chance of topping both groups in the late stages
Trapattoni finished second in both his campaigns to date
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Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by RogerMilla RogerMilla wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Kerr used to go to as many games as he could, sometimes more than one in a single day.
how did that work out?
That is a failed logic. 
 
Just because a manager with an average record for us did the correct thing does not mean a good manager should not do it. 
 
If its the right thing to do its the right thing to do.  The results do not make everythign you do wrong or right. 
 
 
correct
traps record statistically only marginally better than Kerrs.

Lies damn lies and statistics -  2 play offs and one qualification .
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Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by El_nino El_nino wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

I must have missed all the brilliant football we played under Brian Kerr even though I was at 90% of the matches. His bitching last night was laughable and Ive lost all respect for him he is an embarrasment.

Ya ever opportunity he got last night he was having a pop or throwing sly remarks in.  at one stage Killer looked pretty uncomfortable with what Kerr was saying.
Nothing Kerr was saying was inaccurate though.
 
The way the FAI treated Brian Kerr was absoltuely disgusting. THis is a man who has done more good for Irish football as a whole than trap or Delaney ever will.
 
Hang on a sec.........Kerr didn't deserve a new contract.  He did an ok job after McCarthy left early in the 2004 EC campaign but the last game in Switzerland gave an indication of what was to come in the 2006 WC campaign.  We were listless, directionless and went out with a whimper.  Simiilarly against the Swiss and French at home in 2 massive games in the 2006 campaign, we didn't score in those 2 games (or the aforementioned 2004 Swiss game).  He was out of his depth by then and he had to go at that stage, the players were sick of his methods and quite frankly so were the fans.
 
Yeah he did a great job with the underage set up but that was then..........his continual bitter sniping since then is extremely childish and irritating, he should be better than that sorta nonsense.
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Originally posted by BigStrongMan BigStrongMan wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:


Originally posted by BigStrongMan BigStrongMan wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

It was obviously a recommendation from the physios and doc. Why always try and start another negative slam the manager thread again.0
Will you ever change the bleedin record,players know there bodies better then any doc or physio,if he said he was fit to play then he's fit
Where's Traps trust in him????


Given and Dunne said they were fit for the Euros, wjhere does that leave your argument?  Have seen plenty here slate the manager for taking their word on that.   
This was a friendly
I'm sure the management team know of the doubts in Given and Dunne in the summer
Have either said since that they were injured??
Trap was willing to play a 80% fit Given or Dunne in such important games,rightly or wrongly
Situation with Long seems to be another breakdown in communication
That again is not good enough IMO

Exactly, so there was no need to take a risk on him. Imagine the outcry against Trap if Long started and got injured in the match. Trap made the right decision resting Long last night. 
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Trap Qualifications 1, Kerr 0, that's the only stat one should use, regardless of the manager, that's the only stat one should use actually.  It's all about qualifying for Euros/World Cups.

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Originally posted by El_nino El_nino wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

I must have missed all the brilliant football we played under Brian Kerr even though I was at 90% of the matches. His bitching last night was laughable and Ive lost all respect for him he is an embarrasment.

Ya ever opportunity he got last night he was having a pop or throwing sly remarks in.  at one stage Killer looked pretty uncomfortable with what Kerr was saying.
Nothing Kerr was saying was inaccurate though.
 
The way the FAI treated Brian Kerr was absoltuely disgusting. THis is a man who has done more good for Irish football as a whole than trap or Delaney ever will.
My Views are my own and do not in any way represent this site.

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