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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pipkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Not a lot happened as regards GC today, there is only the Pyrenees for Nibali to do something (looking unlikely that Evans will at this stage). Roche will have to try attack something or someone to regain top 10, don't think tis going to be enough sticking to the leaders for as long as possible and seeing where it goes from there, there are a lot of relatively strong mountain riders in and around him on the GC. 


And here's an article from Brad Wiggins about drugs, courtesy of the Guardian. 



There have been a couple of questions asked about doping this week and I don't feel I've been able to give a full answer. I understand why I get asked those questions given the recent history of the sport, but it still annoys me. It's hard to know what to say, half an hour after finishing one of the hardest races you've ridden, when you're knackered. The insinuations make me angry, because I thought people would look back into my history, the things I've said in the past, such as at the start of the 2006 Tour when I turned up for a first go at the race and Operación Puerto kicked off, what I said when Floyd Landis went positive, and what I said when I was chucked out with Cofidis after Cristian Moreni tested positive in 2007.

On the way home after that, I put my Cofidis kit in a dustbin at Pau airport because I didn't want to be seen in it, and swore I would never race in it again, because I was so sick at what had happened. Those things I said then stand true today. Nothing has changed. I still feel those emotions and I stand by those statements now.

To understand me, I think people need to look at the bigger picture, where I have come from, in the context of how the sport has changed, and how I've progressed. They see me put in a great time trial like I did on Monday: I can do it because I've worked hard to close the gap between me and Fabian Cancellara and Tony Martin. What seems to be forgotten is that the margin between me and the best guys wasn't that large in the past, even when I wasn't putting in anything like the effort I have in the past couple of years.

I do think that over the years I've laid down a few markers as to what I could do. I was fifth in the time trial in Albi in the 2007 Tour, behind Alexandr Vinokourov, Andrey Kashechkin, Cadel Evans and Andreas Klöden. The first two later tested positive for blood doping so I was effectively third, two weeks into the Tour, at a time when I wasn't concentrating on the race.

I had the engine already, and it showed that year when I won the prologues in the Dauphiné and the Four Days of Dunkirk. As early as 2005 I was seventh in the world time trial championships in Madrid: two of the riders in front of me, "Vino" and Kashechkin, were again, later, done for doping; a third, Rubén Plaza, was implicated in Operación Puerto. That year, I won a mountain stage in the Tour de l'Avenir.

When I look back, we now have an idea of what was going on in the sport back then, and it was a different era. Personally, I used to find it difficult. You'd be trying to negotiate a contract – say £50,000 – I had two kids to worry about, a livelihood to earn in the face of what was going on, and people beating me because they were doping. I had a chip on my shoulder as a result, and I wasn't shy of saying what I thought about doping because it directly affected me and the lives of my family.

Since then, drug tests have begun to work better, the blood passport has come in, so it's harder for people to dope. The chances of getting caught are far higher than they were. I do believe the sport is changing, if you look at what Ryder Hesjedal did at the Giro and what Chris Froome did at the Vuelta. As that change has happened, my performances have gone up, and at the same time I've begun to work far harder than I did before.

I'm not claiming the sport is out of the woods but doping in the sport is less of a worry to me personally, it's less at the forefront of my mind, because I'm no longer getting beaten by people who then go on and test positive or whatever. If there is a difference in my attitude now compared to back then, it's that I'm more focused on what I am doing, I pay less attention to what's going on outside my bubble because I'm not coming second to riders who dope.

It affects me less, in terms of my worrying about it, but the important thing is that nothing has changed in how I stand morally. Nothing has changed about the reasons why I would never dope. In fact, the reasons why I would never use drugs have become more important. It comes down to my family, and the life I have built for myself and how I would feel about living with the possibility of getting caught. I wrote it all in my autobiography back in 2008 and I still feel the same now. It's just I say it less. There is more attention on me, which makes me more withdrawn, and I don't feel easy in a leader's role, as [the cycling author] Richard Moore correctly wrote in his book.

The question that needs to be asked is not why wouldn't I take drugs, but why would I? I know exactly why I wouldn't dope. To start with, I come to professional road-racing from a different background to a lot of guys. There is a different culture in British cycling. Britain is a country where doping is not morally acceptable. I was born in Belgium but I grew up in the British environment, with the Olympic side of the sport as well as theTour de France. I don't care what people say, the attitude to doping in the UK is different to in Italy or France maybe, where a rider like Richard Virenque can dope, be caught, be banned, come back and be a national hero.

If I doped I would potentially stand to lose everything. It's a long list. My reputation, my livelihood, my marriage, my family, my house. Everything I have achieved, my Olympic medals, my world titles, the CBE I was given. I would have to take my children to the school gates in a small Lancashire village with everyone looking at me, knowing I had cheated, knowing I had, perhaps, won the Tour de France, but then been caught. I remember in 2007 throwing that Cofidis kit in the bin at that small airport, where no one knew me, because I didn't want any chance of being associated with doping. Then I imagine how it would be in a tiny community where everyone knows everyone.

It's not just about me. I've always lived in the UK. All my friends in cycling are here, and my extended family. Cycling isn't just about me and the Tour de France. My wife organises races in Lancashire. I have my own sportif, with people coming and paying £40 each to ride. If all that was built on sand, if I was deceiving all those people, I would have to live with the knowledge it could all disappear just like that. My father-in-law works at British Cycling and would never be able to show his face there again. Their family have been in cycling for 50 years, and I would bring shame and embarrassment on them. It's not just about me: if I doped it would jeopardise Sky – who sponsor the entire sport in the UK – Dave Brailsford and all he has done, and Tim Kerrison, my trainer. I would not want to end up sitting in a room with all that hanging on me, thinking: "sh*t, I don't want anyone to find out."

That is not something I wish to live with. Doping would simply be not worth it. This is only sport we are talking about. Sport does not mean more to me than all those other things I have. Winning the Tour de France at any cost is not worth the possibility of losing all that.

I am not willing to risk all those things I've got in my life. I do it because I love it. I don't do it for a power trip: at the end of the day, I'm a shy bloke looking forward to taking my son to summer rugby camp after the Tour, where he could maybe bump into his hero, Sam Tomkins. That's what's keeping me going here. What I love is doing my best and working hard. If I felt I had to take drugs, I would rather stop tomorrow, go and ride club 10-mile time trials, ride to the cafe on Sundays, and work in Tesco stacking shelves.

As much as I'd like to believe that all riders are clean, it is hard to believe it watching over the last couple of weeks. The biggest question mark being Froome. How he drove on the leading group on stage 7 and then somehow had the energy to take the stage at the top of the climb was some feat. 

I must admit I don't follow the sport closely bar the major tours but that was some rise to prominence in last year's Vuelta. Suppose the same can be said for Wiggins but at least he had some previous form in this a few years ago. I still love watching it but the past will always hang over it. 

And there are still question marks over Roche and Kelly and TBH don't know enough to say too much about them but as far as I've been told both are very suspicious. 

But I must admit if you're just off the top level it must be awful tough to carry on knowing that most around you are up to their eyes in drugs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 11:44pm
Kelly tested positive twice during his career, he has never confirmed or denied he took drugs. Even as (an excellent) commentator on Eurosport for the TDF, he tends to stay fairly clear of the issue. Roche, on the other hand, has consistently denied it, when all evidence, circumstancial as it may be, would point that he did. 

As much as it is tempting to think that the sport is winning (and as Shoco pointed out earlier, it does more than most other sports to combat drugs), you only have to go back 4 years to Wiggin's first TDF (he finished 4th) to find that he was the only one of that years top ten GC finishers who has never had any drugs related issue hanging over him. Personally, I would believe the fella, he has always been anti doping from the outset of his road race career (and presumably was as a track cyclist), there is no way I (or anybody else) could say the same for the rest of them. Would doubt Nico Roche is on drugs, if he is, he ain't taking the right ones, or enough of them......


Edit, regarding Kelly, I forgot about the PDM episode where the entire team (and it was the strongest in the TDF at the time) pulled out en masse one day because of ' food poisoning' . To say highly suspicious would be an understatement. 









Edited by deise316 - 13 Jul 2012 at 11:47pm
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pipkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 12:05am
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Kelly tested positive twice during his career, he has never confirmed or denied he took drugs. Even as (an excellent) commentator on Eurosport for the TDF, he tends to stay fairly clear of the issue. Roche, on the other hand, has consistently denied it, when all evidence, circumstancial as it may be, would point that he did. 

As much as it is tempting to think that the sport is winning (and as Shoco pointed out earlier, it does more than most other sports to combat drugs), you only have to go back 4 years to Wiggin's first TDF (he finished 4th) to find that he was the only one of that years top ten GC finishers who has never had any drugs related issue hanging over him. Personally, I would believe the fella, he has always been anti doping from the outset of his road race career (and presumably was as a track cyclist), there is no way I (or anybody else) could say the same for the rest of them. Would doubt Nico Roche is on drugs, if he is, he ain't taking the right ones, or enough of them......


Edit, regarding Kelly, I forgot about the PDM episode where the entire team (and it was the strongest in the TDF at the time) pulled out en masse one day because of ' food poisoning' . To say highly suspicious would be an understatement. 

LOL

As a matter of interest, how did the Irish media report on the alleged incidents? IIRC Roche was voted into the top 10 Irish sports people of all time ever at the turn of the decade. 

EDIT:with RTE


Edited by Kerrzy - 14 Jul 2012 at 12:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 12:29am
That, I don't remember, Kelly's positive tests were in '84 and '88, the suspicion of the general public probably wasn't there, I would suspect the parochial nature of the Irish media at the time downplayed it (I stand to be corrected by anybody who knows more about this), given in the mid eighties, there was not much to be positive about in general, and we had very few successful individual sportsmen at the time, unless you count Eddie Macken the showjumper. I think it would have been a brave mainstream journo back then to come out with his or her suspicions. 

Kimmage's Rough Ride came out in 1990, and he spent the guts of the following years being derided by all and sundry as a bitter, failed sportsman, while a decade later, the book became (and still is) a seminal account of life at the wrong end of the peleton. 

When you look at it, that book was the first time anybody had made a connection to an Irish sportsperson and drugs, (and nowhere in it does Kimmage say Roche took drugs) it probably took the Atlanta olympics in 1996 to bring it home that the Irish were no different to any others when it came to the drugs issue, and even at that, only one journo (Tom Humphries, whatever happened him ?.....) made the allegations, and he too was very much on his own for a long time. FFS there are still people out there who think Ms De Bruin was as clean as the driven snow (Hello Jimmy Magee). In short, back then, our media did not (as Kimmage memorably said of pro cyclists of his era in his book) ' piss in the soup' . 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 9:19pm
any bookie offering odds on wiggans not to win ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pipkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2012 at 4:07pm
These punctures have ruined today's race. Poor form from Rolland attacking
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2012 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:

These punctures have ruined today's race. Poor form from Rolland attacking


In fairness, he laid off once he got the message in the ear. And apparently it was all sabotage, tacks being thrown across the road by some utter lunatic. Caused Kiserlovski to crash out which is disgraceful, frankly. Peloton rolling to the finish now as a result, having waited for all dropped by punctures to rejoin. That idiot should be found and made to sleep on a bed of nails.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pipkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2012 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:

These punctures have ruined today's race. Poor form from Rolland attacking


In fairness, he laid off once he got the message in the ear. And apparently it was all sabotage, tacks being thrown across the road by some utter lunatic. Caused Kiserlovski to crash out which is disgraceful, frankly. Peloton rolling to the finish now as a result, having waited for all dropped by punctures to rejoin. That idiot should be found and made to sleep on a bed of nails.


Undoubtedly team orders. And he had gained nearly 2 minutes before he sat up. Sour intentions IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tribalarmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2012 at 4:46pm
Winner was ex-Real Madrid player Pedro Leon's brother.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2012 at 6:20pm
All respect lost fot Wiggins, on SSN saying the police should find those resonsible and sent them to a football match Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2012 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

All respect lost fot Wiggins, on SSN saying the police should find those resonsible and sent them to a football match Clown


you sure he said that? he did say that if similar to what  happened on the tour at the weekend in a football match they would have been arrested

riders have no protection from the crowds on them big mountain stages and that it what he was getting at, at least from the quotes i read

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2012 at 7:54pm
frank schleck has tested positive for a banned substance Cry

if he was doping it didnt do him much good as he got dropped plenty of times on the climbs!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2012 at 7:55pm
Frank Schleck after testing positive for banned subsatance according to SSN Shocked
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2012 at 8:07pm
Shocked ffs brings more shame on the event although innocent until proven guilty, has 4 days to have B sample analyzed
had him backed at evs to finish in the top 10 Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The BIG P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2012 at 8:17pm
Really disapointing about Frank Schelck! I thought the use of drugs was on the decline but its obviously not the case!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2012 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

All respect lost fot Wiggins, on SSN saying the police should find those resonsible and sent them to a football match Clown


you sure he said that? he did say that if similar to what  happened on the tour at the weekend in a football match they would have been arrested

riders have no protection from the crowds on them big mountain stages and that it what he was getting at, at least from the quotes i read


Tis exactly what he said on SSN, judging by those later comments though that he said elsewhere he mightve just said it wrong, will take it back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 7:14pm
Nicolas Roche up to 11th, 4 seconds off 10th. Lets hope he can pull a few seconds out of Pinot tomorrow. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pipkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Nicolas Roche up to 11th, 4 seconds off 10th. Lets hope he can pull a few seconds out of Pinot tomorrow. Thumbs Up


Good ride by Roche, was dropped by the Van Den Broeck group on the final climb and made it back to them on the descent. He'll make time on Rolland and Pinot in the TT but he'll lose time to Kloden. Touch and go whether he'll make top 10.

Wiggins tied it up today, as I'd say most expected.
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