Tour de France |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Only hope for other teams or non Sky riders tomorrow is some team have an effort at breaking them on the Tourmalet rather than the last climb. Opposition tactics have been pretty poor this year, although individual riders like Fugslang & Landa have both said it's ''impossible'' to do anything about Skys dominance. And when you consider Landa might well have been the strongest rider in last year's tour, that says a lot.
Still, Sunweb had a fair go at them last year with some minor successes, as did A2GR, and they weren't even the biggest budgeted outfits. Nobody has particularly tried, or been able to do the same this year. Movistar generally have a conservative policy and will also be trying to protect their lead in the team standings, so maybe Roglic & Krusjiwik's Lotto NL might have a go as they are the ones who stand to gain most out of any chaos. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Shedite
Jack Charlton Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Status: Offline Points: 9823 |
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Stage 2, Froome, Quintana and Porte lost over a minute when they crashed. Next day the, Stage 3 then on the team time trial Dumolin was the only one with a good TT team, Quintana/Landa lost another 50sec, Nibali a minute, Kruijswick/Roglic 1:15 By the end of that stage he had Dumolin within 8 seconds but a big buffer over the rest of the GC guys. Since then all the GC guys have been taking time to and from each other ever since (Dumolin lost 50sec after a puncture on stage 6), Thomas has been strongest, but my point is if you take a crash, a puncture and the TTT out of it, we'd have had a very close top 6/8. He's had the luck you need to win it
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GB 1HughJarse
Liam Brady Joined: 03 Sep 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2091 |
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Used to love the TDF, can’t take it seriously anymore.
I totally understand though how fans of cycling still adore it, but do the French public themselves still turnout in their tens of thousands at every stage? |
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Shoco
Roy Keane Hail Hail the Celts are here Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Celthick Park Status: Offline Points: 13727 |
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But they are being dominant, just look at them on the climbs, about 6 riders at the front always, setting such a high tempo that it's almost impossible for the others to do anything. Thomas has put time into all his rivals on every summit finish
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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS |
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Shedite
Jack Charlton Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Status: Offline Points: 9823 |
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It leaves a big finish atop each climb, where all the big guys have legs to do something. Thomas put time into the others in a few of the stages, but not much. It's a far cry from the days when Froomewould fly off into the distance with 5k to go and win by 90 seconds
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Shoco
Roy Keane Hail Hail the Celts are here Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Celthick Park Status: Offline Points: 13727 |
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Of course it means something for GC, it's protecting their riders and means it's very hard to put them under pressure.
He doesn't need to put time into them, he just has to stop them putting time into him, and the strength of his team means they can't
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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS |
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Shoco
Roy Keane Hail Hail the Celts are here Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Celthick Park Status: Offline Points: 13727 |
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have a bit of action now on the tourmalet, still 100km to go
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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS |
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Neil Armstrong
Jack Charlton Cyavan Cyunt Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 5003 |
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Mikel Landa going for it!
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Ulster Champions 2020 our 40th Title. Take that all ye Moanaghan ***ts!
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Shoco
Roy Keane Hail Hail the Celts are here Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Celthick Park Status: Offline Points: 13727 |
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big tom throwing in a few digs now, really upsetting the sky train. Martin not able to stick with them either
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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS |
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Shoco
Roy Keane Hail Hail the Celts are here Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Celthick Park Status: Offline Points: 13727 |
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need to put Thomas under pressure on the descent, try and force him into a mistake, he has beenknown to take a tumble in the past
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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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It isn't so much that they are setting the pace, if they weren't, someone else would be regardless, its the fact that with all of them at the front, all the time, up to the very last few kms usually mean all attacks are shut down more or less immediately. One man, on his own, say like Martin usually is late on, can't chase down every single attack at that stage in a race, after the 2nd or 3rd attempted break someone will get away & stay away. Froome or Thomas on their own couldn't either, not in every stage. Because of Skys tactics, that is what we are not seeing. Froome would arguably have been a lot further back & lost more time today had Bernal not been there for example, though he may also have latched on to Martin, so its hard to say that for definite. Teams always had one or 2 specialists to look after the main men in the mountains to do that exact job, but it wouldn't necessarily be the same fella every day, mainly as it takes an awful lot out of lads. Sky though, have 5 or 6 of them all day, every day. The general idea for the other teams is to try get rid of some of those 5 or 6 earlyish, so that they can isolate the Sky leaders later on so their own man/men can have a go. Last year, A2GR attacked them on descents, which worked some of the time, Sunweb had a few goes at taking them on in flatter stages with limited success, this year, no team has really tried at all, even the next strongest team in Movistar. Today was a good day for other teams, or about as good as could have been expected, but it was Katusha with their mid race pace setting who probably had the biggest influence in shedding some of the Sky lads (bar Bernal & the 2 leaders) early, or at least earlier than usual. And once they were gone, Roglic was able to put some time into Thomas, while Froome was lucky enough to hang on at all. Think everyone knows no team is strong enough to try take them on every day, but some real attacking talent like Bardet, Martin, Roglic & Quintana are being shut out more by tactics rather than any individual weaknesses. How they are able to have their entire team on the front all day every day when no other team can manage it is a different story entirely and will probably only become apparent with the passing of time. Riding at the front gives no protection from the wind, so takes more effort, but these lads can do it every single day for 3 weeks, that is something that never really happened before. Look at old TDF footage, especially on flat stages and you would see the leader's team doing half an hour on the front, before moving to one side and letting the 2nd or 3rd placed fella's team take over for a while, back then it was a tactic of the 2nd or 3rd team not to do their share to conserve energy for later on, but these days its one team on the front all the way to 5km from the finish, every single day. Even though the 2nd or 3rd fella's teams are conserving energy by not being on the front, they still can't overtake or attack Sky. It all seems a bit odd. Edited by deise316 - 28 Jul 2018 at 12:21am |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Shedite
Jack Charlton Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Status: Offline Points: 9823 |
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I understand the tactic of the sky train, and it worked very well in the past with the big rivals being "explosive" riders like Nibali, Aru, Quintana, Contador. My point is the guys they're up against this year aren't explosive like that, they're mostly grinders, so are happy to plod along behind the sky train.
If Dumoulin could pick his dream team and dream tactics it'd probably be exactly the pace that team sky are setting.
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Shoco
Roy Keane Hail Hail the Celts are here Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Celthick Park Status: Offline Points: 13727 |
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wet roads this morning, not sure what they will be like later but has the potential to put riders on their arses if they take risks, Thomas probably has enough time that he won't need to take risks
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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS |
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Offline Points: 37957 |
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Dan
Edited by Denis Irwin - 28 Jul 2018 at 9:30pm |
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Well deserved award for Dan, though Alaphillipe can probably count himself a bit unlucky. Suppose the difference is Alaphillipe targeted specific stages & KOM intermediate sprints that were more or less uncontested after he established a big lead on Barguil (and was successful at doing so) whereas Dan just took whatever opportunity he got, regardless of whether it was actually on or not in reality and regardless of difficulty, or terrain, and mainly being surrounded by Sky looking at his every move while doing so.
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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In the bigger picture, this TDF has seriously muddied the waters as regards what we can expect in the future. One of the things that made the likes of Armstrong, Ullrich and going back to Indurain, so suspicious is they didn't have the physical frame of climbers, but yet were dominant in the mountains anyway. Sky have taken this to a different level entirely, Froome & Thomas are really too heavy to be climbers (as is Dumolin), but that doesn't stop them being the best climbers anyway.
It just so happens they are also the best time triallists, the best pace setters, the best at riding on the front all day for 3 weeks, the best at explosive uphill finishes, the best at nullifying attacks, the best at keeping the entire team together for as long as possible in mountain stages, they also win olympic track medals in their spare time, and some of them even suffer a variety of health issues while achieving all this. This year has been a great show, but tis also utter bullsh*t. Thomas was asked during the week what the secret was, and he replied '' We work harder than anyone else'' . Anyone remember who the last fella to say that was ?? |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Shoco
Roy Keane Hail Hail the Celts are here Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Celthick Park Status: Offline Points: 13727 |
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yeah the whole cobbled classics to mountain goats is a strange one.
The requirements to be a good climber and a good time trialist are the same however, been able to sustain a high power output over a prolonged period of time. The difference being a pure climber was much lighter and had a higher power to weight ratio so would climb faster, where as on a TT it generally came down to raw power. So when you see sky dropping pure climbers like Bardet, Martin and Quintana it does make you scratch your head. Their TTs yesterday is what you would expect of a climber, and none of the climbers were anywhere near challenging yesterday. Of course most riders weren't going flat out yesterday as there was no real need to, so it's hard to judge properly, though sky did have 6 riders in the top 25, in fairness though they have 3 national champs in their team. The last climber that could time trail was Contador, and we know about his past, but at least he was exciting to watch!! I may be wrong but how much have power meters ruined racing? Would the sky train be as effective without them?
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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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I appreciate that Dan deserves the super combativity award, but could it equally have been awarded to Lawson Craddock? I know Dan was at the front for large parts of the race but what Craddock has done is madly combative. It would have been so easy for him to give up, at any stage of the race, and no one would have blamed him, but he didn't. To cycle over 3,000km with a broken scapula is extreme.
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