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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

From the Daily Mail's match ratings yesterday:
 

Manager: Pep Guardiola - 8

Stuck to his principles by wearing the yellow ribbon and clinched a first trophy in England.


I wonder would they say James McClean "stuck to his principles" in November.
 

 


It's a little hypocritical of Pep who was an ambassador for Qatar 2022 and done nothing when Zahir Belounis (Held in Qatar against his will) sent him a letter begging for help.
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I suppose so, maybe Catalonia just means more to him.
Which United twitter account did you read that on by the way  LOL
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

I suppose so, maybe Catalonia just means more to him.
Which United twitter account did you read that on by the way  LOL


Seen Philippe Auclair tweeting about it last night.
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Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

 Would it not be easier to ban - or allow - all symbols? Thereby removing any potential confusion as to what constitutes a political symbol or not. Teams can wear black armbands whenever they choose as a sign of respect - all other (potentially) political symbols outlawed.
All political symbols are banned.
And if there is any doubt (which there clearly isn't with PG's ribbon), FIFA determines.

As for the alternative of allowing all, that could never work, since it would encourage certain players/teams/Associations to adopt whatever they liked, leading to boycotts, counter protests and fan disturbances etc.

I suppose - like the OP - it would seem some seem not to be. I.e. it's a subjective rule.
OK, I'll re-phrase: All symbols which are deemed by FIFA to be "political" are banned.

Now are you telling me that PG's ribbon is not political?
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Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

I definitely wouldn't be writing City off for the CL.

It's one from City, Real, Barca and Bayern, and Real and Barca aren't even through to the quarters yet.
On the basis of their five games vs Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund and Juve, you can't write off Spurs.

Even if they are still outsiders, indeed Juve could still eliminate them at Wembley.
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

I suppose so, maybe Catalonia just means more to him.
That indicates that it's not really to do with general principle, just personal preference.

Speaking of which...

 
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Yes, your photo is backing up what I was saying.
He's a football manager, not a humanitarian nor Amnesty International campaigner.
 
He probably (and I'm assuming, in my opinion) felt the need to wear the yellow ribbon as the Catalan struggle is close to his heart as he was born and raised there. Personal preference.
 
Poppies for the british army and people imprisoned in Qatar are probably not that close to his heart.
He probably (again, I'm assuming) like most people, put on the poppy as, seeing the annual sh*t storm every year over McClean, and the constant abuse he gets for, "sticking to his principles" and thought to himself - nah I don't feel that strongly about this and don't need all that hassle so i'll just put one on.
 


Edited by Roberto Baggio - 26 Feb 2018 at 4:14pm
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

 Would it not be easier to ban - or allow - all symbols? Thereby removing any potential confusion as to what constitutes a political symbol or not. Teams can wear black armbands whenever they choose as a sign of respect - all other (potentially) political symbols outlawed.
All political symbols are banned.
And if there is any doubt (which there clearly isn't with PG's ribbon), FIFA determines.

As for the alternative of allowing all, that could never work, since it would encourage certain players/teams/Associations to adopt whatever they liked, leading to boycotts, counter protests and fan disturbances etc.

I suppose - like the OP - it would seem some seem not to be. I.e. it's a subjective rule.
OK, I'll re-phrase: All symbols which are deemed by FIFA to be "political" are banned.

Now are you telling me that PG's ribbon is not political?

I would say Pep's ribbon is political but would also consider the poppy political - the proof of which is in the outcry if someone doesn't wear it:
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

He's a football manager, not a humanitarian nor Amnesty International campaigner.
Isn't that exactly the point? That is, the FA have told him he may wear the ribbon eg at Press Conferences (i.e. no censorship there), just not when he's pitchside (i.e. when he's being a football manager)

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

He probably (and I'm assuming, in my opinion) felt the need to wear the yellow ribbon as the Catalan struggle is close to his heart as he was born and raised there. Personal preference.
So British Imperialism [sic] re NI is OK, but Spanish Imperialism re Catalonia isn't?

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Poppies for the british army and people imprisoned in Qatar are probably not that close to his heart.
He probably (again, I'm assuming) like most people, put on the poppy as, seeing the annual sh*t storm every year over McClean, and the constant abuse he gets for, "sticking to his principles" and thought to himself - nah I don't feel that strongly about this and don't need all that hassle so i'll just put one on.
 
Er, as a footballer, Guardiola himself played for two years in Qatar (2003-05). He was manager of Barcelona when Qatar Foundation became the club's first ever shirt sponsor. And in his role as an Ambassador to Qatar 2022, he was still taking money from the Qataris. 

Meanwhile Zahir Belounis is/was a footballer in Qatar, who appealed for Guardiola's help from Qatar, where he and his family were being held against their will due to Qatar's feudal employment laws.
"Close to his heart"?

Close to his wallet, more like. 

Hypocrite. Thumbs Down


Edited by Territorial - 26 Feb 2018 at 4:46pm
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Who said British Imperialism re NI was ok? I'm just saying Guardiola probably doesn't care much about it.
So you want him to come out and support other causes and not just the Catalan POWs.
 
FFS he'll end up looking like this in his match day attire, but with political material on him instead?
 


Edited by Roberto Baggio - 26 Feb 2018 at 4:52pm
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Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

I would say Pep's ribbon is political but would also consider the poppy political - the proof of which is in the outcry if someone doesn't wear it:
Fine.



But neither you nor Ms. White get to decide these things. Nor is the reaction of certain people the determining factor any kind of "proof" - some people get wound up about anything, whether that be people wearing it or people not wearing it.

Meanwhile, some people don't get wound up:
'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way,' the DFB president [Reinhard Grindel] said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5065965/England-boss-Gareth-Southgate-hails-Germany-poppy-gesture.html#ixzz58EZR7UpB 


Edited by Territorial - 26 Feb 2018 at 4:57pm
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

I would say Pep's ribbon is political but would also consider the poppy political - the proof of which is in the outcry if someone doesn't wear it:
Fine.

But neither you nor Ms. White get to decide these things. Nor is the reaction of certain people the determining factor any kind of "proof" - some people get wound up about anything, whether wearing or not wearing it.

Meanwhile, some people don't get wound up:
'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way,' the DFB president [Reinhard Grindel] said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5065965/England-boss-Gareth-Southgate-hails-Germany-poppy-gesture.html#ixzz58EZR7UpB 
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Is this not exactly what you're doing here with Pep wearing a yellow ribbon?
 
 
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Who said British Imperialism re NI was ok? I'm just saying Guardiola probably doesn't care much about it.
So you want him to come out and support other causes and not just the Catalan POWs.
 
FFS he'll end up looking like this in his match day attire, but with political material on him instead?
 

Nice selfie Baggio LOLBig smile
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

I would say Pep's ribbon is political but would also consider the poppy political - the proof of which is in the outcry if someone doesn't wear it:
Fine.

But neither you nor Ms. White get to decide these things. Nor is the reaction of certain people the determining factor any kind of "proof" - some people get wound up about anything, whether wearing or not wearing it.

Meanwhile, some people don't get wound up:
'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way,' the DFB president [Reinhard Grindel] said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5065965/England-boss-Gareth-Southgate-hails-Germany-poppy-gesture.html#ixzz58EZR7UpB 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
Is this not exactly what you're doing here with Pep wearing a yellow ribbon?
 
 
You mean getting wound up?

I'm not wound up, I'm merely debating an issue.

With my position being that I agree with FIFA/the FA's ban on political symbols at football matches; I agree that the Poppy is not political*; and I think PG is being hypocritical for insisting on his right to wear an obviously political symbol in one context, whilst ignoring the outrageous treatment of a fellow footballer - effectively a political prisoner - by his own paymasters.


* - Even if I think Football currently makes far too much of it these days generally, and that no-one should be forced to wear one, specifically.
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Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Who said British Imperialism re NI was ok? I'm just saying Guardiola probably doesn't care much about it.
I thought that those people (on here, at least) who object to the Poppy consider it to be a symbol of British Imperialism.
In which case, by wearing a Poppy badge, PG is effectively saying it is "OK" - esp when he doesn't have to. 

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

So you want him to come out and support other causes and not just the Catalan POWs.
No, I am merely asking him to be consistent over his reaction to those causes in which he chooses to be publicly involved, whether that be Catalan Independence or Qatari Football.

P.S. Did you really mean "POW's"? A Freudian slip if ever there was one. LOL
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

I would say Pep's ribbon is political but would also consider the poppy political - the proof of which is in the outcry if someone doesn't wear it:
Fine.



But neither you nor Ms. White get to decide these things. Nor is the reaction of certain people the determining factor any kind of "proof" - some people get wound up about anything, whether that be people wearing it or people not wearing it.

Meanwhile, some people don't get wound up:
'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way,' the DFB president [Reinhard Grindel] said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5065965/England-boss-Gareth-Southgate-hails-Germany-poppy-gesture.html#ixzz58EZR7UpB 

...which brings us full circle to the point that it's subjective. Obviously, we're not arguing what Fifa have ruled on the matter - as that is fact - but simply pointing out that some might consider the process and outcome hypocritical.
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Political prisoners

My view is that Pep can have no complaints if he gets a ban, as it’s clearly a political emblem. He’s said that himself and that he doesn’t care if he’s banned.
I also believe the football authorities (FA, UEFA) are hypocritical as the poppy is also political
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