The Rugby Thread |
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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What I said about the Japanese situation in the last rugby world cup was simply fact. They were shafted, that's not an opinion, that's just the facts of the situation. The World Cup groups were set up so that the lowest seeds had zero chance of progressing, even if in this case the lowest seeds were probably the best team in that group. The rugby World Cup is a strange one because by far the best format would be a world cup of 16 teams, but then the game may never grow in smaller rugby nations. 16, 4 groups of 4, all of a high standard. 24 with 6 groups of 4 is the next best option but the weaker teams getting beat 100 plus points to zero doesn't do much for the competition in that scenario. The current set up of 4 groups of 5 is just wrong though. It just doesn't work logistically.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26265 |
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They did get a raw deal but I think it was more like "let's expand the competition to give smaller teams a chance to play at the world cup, expanding to a group of 5 means one team will need to be shafted with a quick turnaround, the bottom seeds are mainly here because of the olive branch extended to them anyway to be part of the world cup rather than actually having a chance to go abywherr, it's hardly going to make a difference anyway (key point), lets give the quick turnaround to the lowest seed." It's actually a good sign for rugby that the lowest seed is now competitive and the set up being looked at to recognize this unfairness and that it can make a difference. I think in football it's very similar. Great example would be the play offs at the end of qualfying when it should be a level playing field as all teams in the hat for the draw achieved the same result to be there, but UEFA add seeding to keep the best 4 teams apart. Edited by t_rAndy - 02 Nov 2018 at 12:04pm |
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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While I don't necessarily agree with the sending in such play off football draws, I don't think that is a similar scenario to the Japanese rugby one at all.
A hypothetical similar scenario would be a lower ranked side like Iceland in a World Cup winning a massive group game, then playing their deciding group match to qualify 24 hours later. It was the rest time between games that essentially made it a walkover to the Scots. I think they played the South Africans on a Sunday and the Scots on a Wednesday. Situations like that should never happen if all entrants into a competition are bring given a sporting chance. I saw the Ireland France Euro 2016 game mentioned awhile ago, and while I do believe France had a decent advantage, 3 days in football is a regular turnaround. Also, finishing 3rd meant you were in the lap of the gods really.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10732 |
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Nobody could have predicted that Japan would beat SA. That was the biggest giantkilling in the history of the tournament, especially as most previous remarkable wins related to the All Blacks being unexpectedly beaten.
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26265 |
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I think it's fairly comparable, the key points arr the teams higher seeded get the odds stacked more in their favour and if there is someone to receive a disadvantage then it is going to go be the team with the lowest seed. Hindsight being 20/20, it was sh*t what happened to Japan but it was the first time one of the lower seeds had pulled off a shock like that. 3/4 days in football is not a bad turnaround around. Think our complaint was that France had an extra 3, but as the lowest side we couldn't really complain too much about the disadvantage. Edited by t_rAndy - 02 Nov 2018 at 5:35pm |
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BigStrongMan
Robbie Keane Just Modding Like Joined: 22 May 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 107645 |
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anyone listening to OTB now. The absolute pony that BoD talks is unreal. 20 minutes of pure sh*te talk.
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PM me for all forum moderation queries.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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I read his autobiography a few weeks back, as much as I liked him as a player he really comes across as a massive knob.
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TonyNotJack
Liam Brady Joined: 16 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2491 |
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If we were still part of the UK he'd be Sir BOD and he'd be loving it.He seems to turn up at Wimbledon every year for that celebrity day where they all stand up and the crowd salute their sporting heroes.
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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When a tournament kicks off, no side, in any sport should ever be in a position where they are effectively forfeiting a match due to a fixture schedule. This is exactly what happened to Japan in the last rugby world cup. Whether Japan went out and lost by 50 points to South Africa before that farcical fixture isn't necessarily the point. The point is that from a sporting principle, all of the teams must be given some semblance of a chance. Now this has happened a good few times in rugby world cup fixtures, and nobody cared because it was lower seeds taking a battering (exactly why the lower seeds get this farcical situation, because nobody would notice). What happened to Ireland isn't in the same realm as that Japanese situation. Ireland we're at a slight disadvantage, no doubt about it due to Frances longer rest reriod. Japan had zero percent chance of beating Scotland. Zero, not 1 percent. Purely due to the organisers logistics. If something like that happened in world cup football to the likes of Ireland there would be holy war.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10732 |
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Hans, can you actually justify the 100% chance thing. As in,a team in the pro era beats South Africa before meeting a ropey Scotland team, and they have NO chance, which is what you’ve said.
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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I'd like to think I'm permanently negative about rugby, it isn't just a once a year thing for me. I'd very much dispute obsession though. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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Are you saying to justify that Japan had 0 percent chance of beating Scotland? Are you genuinely saying that a team with a 4 day gap in international rugby has a chance against a team fresh as can be going into their 1st pool match? Unless there is a massive gulf in class, it can't be done in rugby. Rugby has a massive problem, too many games for top players between clubs and international fixtures, players not getting enough recovery time, the amount of injuries mounting with all of these games, so much so that the whole calendar of events is constantly being reviewed the past few years. So riddle me this Hetfield - how come the brains trust in World Rugby or IRB or whatever they call themselves these days, how come they don't gives sides fixtures every 4 days? It is obviously fair to all involved, no? You should email them that solution. Amazing after all the years of trying to figure it out, they simply didn't do that.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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bhob
Roy Keane YBIGs Donald Trump Joined: 13 Feb 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 10470 |
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I can remember seeing an ad before with Johnny Sexton in it and he was asked how long does the recovery process from a match take. His response was, 48 hours and they'd be good to go again.
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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So if Sexton had so 2 months off in a year, playing 10 months out of 12 in the season, you believe he could play Saturday Wednesday Saturday for those 10 months not a bother? You believe that Sexton could play about 80 games in a season? Sweet suffering jaysus.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26265 |
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Just because a team plays 4 days after a rugby match doesn't give that team 0% chance. If ireland had to play south Africa in Saturday and then Scotland on the Wednesday I wouldn't give Ireland 0% chance against Scotland.
We didn't have to face that though because we were higher seeds and higher seeds don't get such disadvantages, whether it be rugby or soccer
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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This stuff is something else.
When was the last time Munster or Leinster played competitive games within 4 days of each other? So strange to even have to argue this. You will regularly hear any manager give out absolute stink in rugby if their team plays with a 6 day turnaround, while the other team gets 7 days. The 6 nation's every year has managers endlessly droning on about 1 day, between 6 days recovery and 7 days recovery. There's a f*cking 2 week break in the 6 nation's is it once or twice (I forget) to keep the players fresh as playing 5 weekends on the bounce at that level is considered way too much. It's used as an excuse do so often. 4 days is unheard of. Genuinely can't believe I have to argue this. Even Lass, who was originally going on about the competitiveness of the rugby world cup agreed totally about the situation. The organizers are definitely looking at a better way to balance the group fixtures so certain teams aren't absolutely shafted like Japan were. Are people here actually arguing that Japan weren't shafted in the last rugby world cup? This place is so bizarre.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26265 |
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Hans, if you read back through the posts, I and others were saying Japan got a raw deal. You are right that 4 days is unheard of in pro rugby. The point being made is the team that is lowest seeding in the current format just have to lump it. What is the alternative? 1. Reduce to.16: more competitive but also more exclusive, more difficult to expand the game and unfair on teams outside of the elite. 2. Extend the world cup by a week: it's already full at professional 3. Expand to 24: Think this is the next step but 2023 a better time where hopefully others are more competitive |
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liam_in_germany
Liam Brady Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Location: braunschweig Status: Offline Points: 1473 |
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Hans I f**king hate rugby with a passion. But I played it for a while. And lads are often in ribbons after. Of course there's the enormous fat ****s (even at ["world class" level]) who walk up and down the pitch and use their fat holes as their only talent. But it can hurt a lot. I'll give them that.
Mickey mouse sport anyway. We're No2 in a sport that 3/4 countries play. Yoop dee f**king woo
Edited by liam_in_germany - 03 Nov 2018 at 3:16am |
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