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Roy Keane
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He generated some excellent goodwill recently with his incredibly generous contribution to providing relief during the pandemic, and then he does this. It’s braindead at best, provocative at worst, especially at a time where there is almost no other football related news to speak of.
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Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Hope he leaves Stoke this summer
 
Its hardly Stoke's fault
 
Its pretty clear by now that he likes the attention/controversy that has followed him around his career
 
 
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https://www.stokecityfc.com/news/2020/march/Club-Statement/
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Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by Stoked Up Stoked Up wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Hope he leaves Stoke this summer

And go where? Back to Ireland? Europe?
He'll have the exact same problems with most British fans wherever he goes.

I've been a big fan since he came to Stoke, but this weeks twit is just incredibly stupid. He had finally begun to win over many doubting Stoke fans, with his performances since MoN came in.

Hopefully it'll be long forgotten by the time football resumes in earnest next season.

Celtic or Hibs

no thanks, very limited play who tries 

stoke and below are about his level unfortunately 

although the badness in me says it would be some craic if were to score the winner at ibrokes them tramps would combust

more so if we do get to a play off with the occupied 6 for him to score the winner at windsor would be amazing 
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by d13dave d13dave wrote:

If he sticks around in the UK the abuse he has received so far will seem mild (f*ck the Ira, No surrender to the Ira chants etc)

Listen he loves a wind up and i love having him in our squad but he cant moan about their being a reaction to this. 

He will seamlessly replace Johnny Hayes in the Celtic squad.

Even from a footballing perspective I would prefer Hayes. I think Hayes gets unnecessary stick at Celtic; he is a committed, if limited, player who gives his all and can play in a few different positions. The off the field stuff would just make it even more complicated.

It is difficult to understand what was going through his head here, it can’t have been much!

Agree with that. Ability wise not a lot between them, then you factor in McClean probably on 5 or 6 times what Hayes is on, plus all the off field baggage. 
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Probably not as high profile than McClean

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/news/rovers-player-in-court-on-sectarian-assault-allegation-27530501.html


Relevance of a 13 year old link?
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I wonder if kickitout will give him as much support next time
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Probably not as high profile than McClean

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/news/rovers-player-in-court-on-sectarian-assault-allegation-27530501.html


"Probably not" Wacko
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Originally posted by daithi daithi wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

[McClean's] refusal to wear the Poppy is one thing - and he never deserved the abuse he got for that - but this sort of behaviour is quite something else. Indeed, it is hard to recall many other prominent footballers who have so clearly associated themselves with an extreme political viewpoint. Paolo di Canio and Fascism perhaps?
Andy Goram Shocked Ah But sure none of them uns would be so bold
Does that mean you are happy with McClean to be placed in the same category as di Canio and Goram?

Meanwhile, compare and contrast the dignified response of Nemanja Matic with that of McClean when the former made his own stance over the Poppy:

"I recognise fully why people wear poppies," Matic wrote on his Instagram. "I totally respect everyone’s right to do so and I have total sympathy for anyone who has lost loved ones due to conflict.

"However, for me it is a reminder of an attack I felt personally as a young, frightened 12-y-o boy living in Vrelo, as my country was devastated by bombing in 1999.

"Whilst I have done so previously, on reflection I now don't feel it is right for me to wear the poppy.

"I do not want to undermine the poppy as a symbol of pride within Britain or offend anyone, however, we are all a product of our own upbringing and this is a personal choice for the reasons outlined."

How would people feel if he - someone who actually experienced the conflict directly unlike McClean - had then gone on to make a similar post which represented eg a Serbian paramilitary warlord?

[And for the avoidance of doubt, I personally believe everyone should be entitled to decline to wear the Poppy, for whatever reason or none, without being subjected to adverse comment, never mind outright abuse.]
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Originally posted by daithi daithi wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by SUPERWESLEYHOOLAHAN SUPERWESLEYHOOLAHAN wrote:

Suprised how many defending him, its a unbelievably stupid move afer finally appearing to be getting some support in relation to the abuse he gets. Unfortunately in the eyes of the bandwagon '' but he hates the queen brigade '' he can do no wrong 

Can you imagine the reaction of the Hates The Queen Brigade if eg an NI player tweeted a photo of himself with flute and sash entitled "Music Lesson"?

The vitriol and abuse would be in directly inverse proportion to the "Sure it was only a joke" reaction they're giving McClean.
Maybe just pop on to other forums, you know the other side of the divide forums to see the vitriol you speak of Wink

"Your Honour, my client must be absolved of any offence by virtue of the principle of Whataboutery. That opens - and concludes - the case for the defence."
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Roy Keane
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Matic’s approach was very dignified and strikes an excellent tone for those unwilling to wear the poppy. But in truth he had little choice but to strike that tone. Serbia were the aggressors in that conflict having turned their attentions from Bosnia to Kosovo.
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Great these players giving to charity but why make it so public. The players who have true class give it anonomously.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by daithi daithi wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

[McClean's] refusal to wear the Poppy is one thing - and he never deserved the abuse he got for that - but this sort of behaviour is quite something else. Indeed, it is hard to recall many other prominent footballers who have so clearly associated themselves with an extreme political viewpoint. Paolo di Canio and Fascism perhaps?
Andy Goram Shocked Ah But sure none of them uns would be so bold
Does that mean you are happy with McClean to be placed in the same category as di Canio and Goram?

Meanwhile, compare and contrast the dignified response of Nemanja Matic with that of McClean when the former made his own stance over the Poppy:

"I recognise fully why people wear poppies," Matic wrote on his Instagram. "I totally respect everyone’s right to do so and I have total sympathy for anyone who has lost loved ones due to conflict.

"However, for me it is a reminder of an attack I felt personally as a young, frightened 12-y-o boy living in Vrelo, as my country was devastated by bombing in 1999.

"Whilst I have done so previously, on reflection I now don't feel it is right for me to wear the poppy.

"I do not want to undermine the poppy as a symbol of pride within Britain or offend anyone, however, we are all a product of our own upbringing and this is a personal choice for the reasons outlined."

How would people feel if he - someone who actually experienced the conflict directly unlike McClean - had then gone on to make a similar post which represented eg a Serbian paramilitary warlord?

[And for the avoidance of doubt, I personally believe everyone should be entitled to decline to wear the Poppy, for whatever reason or none, without being subjected to adverse comment, never mind outright abuse.]


Bit disengenous. McClean's stance on the poppy and public comments on it have been measured and dignified and in the same tone as Matic's. Plus Matic never took any stick for his decision or at least nothing to the extent that McClean has.

Wigan:
'I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland’s history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.'

West Brom:
'If the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, I'd wear it without a problem."

'I would wear it everyday of the year if that was the thing but it doesn't, it stands for all the conflicts that Britain has been involved in. Because of the history where I come from in Derry, I cannot wear something that represents that.'

His social media activity, on the other hand, has not and deserves criticism.
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:


Has it ever occurred to you that there might be a reason for that? I mean, his past history of outright and public sympathy for hardline Republicanism?

There was the time when he was completing one of those favourite places/foods/actors questionnaires for an Irish website and when it came to favourite song, out of all the very many famous songs associated with his home city, he chose "Back Home in Derry", allegedly written by Bobby Sands.

Or there's the Free Derry Tattoo. And the public appearances with Martin McGuinness around the time of the Irish Presidential election. Or turning his back on the UJ out in the USA when GSTQ was being played in honour of the visiting team, WBA. Or the announcement on Twitter of "another wee Fenian" in the world following the birth of his child.

His refusal to wear the Poppy is one thing - and he never deserved the abuse he got for that - but this sort of behaviour is quite something else. Indeed, it is hard to recall many other prominent footballers who have so clearly associated themselves with an extreme political viewpoint. Paolo di Canio and Fascism perhaps?
Man likes a song about his home city. Lets throw in a bit of whataboutary as to its author to beef this nonsense point up with.

Free Derry tattoo, a symbol of the Derry peoples struggle and sacrifice at the hands of a brutal foreign oppressor in a very dark period for this island. Yep, lets use that against him as well another bit of bulking up your longstanding and clear hatred for James.

Wee fenian LOL you’re easily riled. Maybe he should have waited for your lot to use it instead in their usual way as a form of sectarian abuse and hatred.
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Matic’s approach was very dignified and strikes an excellent tone for those unwilling to wear the poppy. But in truth he had little choice but to strike that tone. Serbia were the aggressors in that conflict having turned their attentions from Bosnia to Kosovo.
Ah right, Matic has to be (what's the word?) penitent, since he's a Serb and the Serbs were the Bad Guys, even the 12 y.o. ones cowering in the basement as the bombs rained down.

Whereas McClean needs to display no such circumspection, because the Provo's were the Good Guys, it making no difference that eg Bloody Sunday occurred nearly two decades before he was even born.

Thanks for clearing that up.
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Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Bit disengenous. McClean's stance on the poppy and public comments on it have been measured and dignified and in the same tone as Matic's. Plus Matic never took any stick for his decision or at least nothing to the extent that McClean has.

Wigan:
'I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland’s history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.'

West Brom:
'If the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, I'd wear it without a problem."

'I would wear it everyday of the year if that was the thing but it doesn't, it stands for all the conflicts that Britain has been involved in. Because of the history where I come from in Derry, I cannot wear something that represents that.'

His social media activity, on the other hand, has not and deserves criticism.

Those quotations you supply are, indeed, respectful and measured.

But when set against his other pronouncements and actions etc, you have to wonder who wrote them? His agent? His club?

Fact is, Matic justified his stance publicly and then got on with being a footballer. Whereas McClean stated his justification whilst continuously tweeting and acting in a needlessly provocative way.

I know which of the two I would consider to be sincere.
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I never said anything like that. I posted about Matic in a vacuum and independently of my view of McClean.  


-Edited to remove unnecessary insult.


Edited by Het-field - 27 Mar 2020 at 6:56pm
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Bit disengenous. McClean's stance on the poppy and public comments on it have been measured and dignified and in the same tone as Matic's. Plus Matic never took any stick for his decision or at least nothing to the extent that McClean has.

Wigan:
'I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland’s history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.'

West Brom:
'If the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, I'd wear it without a problem."

'I would wear it everyday of the year if that was the thing but it doesn't, it stands for all the conflicts that Britain has been involved in. Because of the history where I come from in Derry, I cannot wear something that represents that.'

His social media activity, on the other hand, has not and deserves criticism.

Those quotations you supply are, indeed, respectful and measured.

But when set against his other pronouncements and actions etc, you have to wonder who wrote them? His agent? His club?

Fact is, Matic justified his stance publicly and then got on with being a footballer. Whereas McClean stated his justification whilst continuously tweeting and acting in a needlessly provocative way.

I know which of the two I would consider to be sincere.

I would imagine an agent or adviser wrote them and I would imagine the same applies for Matic.

As I previously pointed out. Matic made his statement and was allowed continue his career withiut facing the abuse that McClean has consistently, apples and oranges. McClean certainly wasn't consistently tweeting about it after his initial statements, he has been after being subjected to consistent abuse.

None of that means that stuff like that post yesterday is excusable, joke or not.
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