Shane Long

pre Madonna wrote: The O'Shea wrote: pre Madonna wrote: The O'Shea wrote: Just because the Americans came up with something doesn't mean it's useless. The concept of the assist is entirely intuitive; in an attacking sense, the most valuable player in a team after a goalscorer is the guy who creates opportunities for the goalscorer. De Bruyne, Silva, Mata, Iniesta etc. would provide hatfuls of assists regardless of who their teammates were, simply because they're so brilliant at playing incisive passes. As I clearly said above it isn't entirely intuitive, the statistic that shows the number of clear cut chances created would be much closer to being entirely intuitive. I'm sure the players who have played alongside Long the most would have seen their assist stats drop due to his drought. Define a "clear cut chance"? In any case, there is a widely used "chances created" stat. Assists are rightly regarded as a superior measure of a players creativity. That opaqueness you are implying is the very point I was making about assists; what is an assist? Can you define one? Assists are given to the last player to touch the ball, provided it is with attacking intent, to touch a ball before the goalscorer. That is hardly assisting anything! Hector Enrique would be 'given' an assist today for his pass to Maradona in '86.  If people can take the time to measure such irrelevance, they can surely measure clear cut chances created. I can do it watching a game I'm not even interested in! A clear shot at goal, from a reasonable distance, that was caused by the final attacking pass made. Hardly splitting the atom.

So your entire argument is that simply because an assist could be a scuffed shot/deflection off someone's a**e, it should be considered no more important than any pass? A goal could be scored in exactly the same manner, yet we still regard it as a goal. Similarly, your "clear cut chance" statistic could also come about in precisely the same way. And I don't quite think you've resolved the vagueness of your own criteria; a "reasonable distance"? What is that? 5 metres, 10 metres, 30 metres? It's utterly arbitrary. The assist is an entirely intuitive and clear-cut measure, hence why it's recognised by just about everyone as the most important measure of a players attacking prowess after their goalscoring record.

The O'Shea wrote: pre Madonna wrote: The O'Shea wrote: pre Madonna wrote: The O'Shea wrote: Just because the Americans came up with something doesn't mean it's useless. The concept of the assist is entirely intuitive; in an attacking sense, the most valuable player in a team after a goalscorer is the guy who creates opportunities for the goalscorer. De Bruyne, Silva, Mata, Iniesta etc. would provide hatfuls of assists regardless of who their teammates were, simply because they're so brilliant at playing incisive passes. As I clearly said above it isn't entirely intuitive, the statistic that shows the number of clear cut chances created would be much closer to being entirely intuitive. I'm sure the players who have played alongside Long the most would have seen their assist stats drop due to his drought. Define a "clear cut chance"? In any case, there is a widely used "chances created" stat. Assists are rightly regarded as a superior measure of a players creativity. That opaqueness you are implying is the very point I was making about assists; what is an assist? Can you define one? Assists are given to the last player to touch the ball, provided it is with attacking intent, to touch a ball before the goalscorer. That is hardly assisting anything! Hector Enrique would be 'given' an assist today for his pass to Maradona in '86.  If people can take the time to measure such irrelevance, they can surely measure clear cut chances created. I can do it watching a game I'm not even interested in! A clear shot at goal, from a reasonable distance, that was caused by the final attacking pass made. Hardly splitting the atom. So your entire argument is that simply because an assist could be a scuffed shot/deflection off someone's a**e, it should be considered no more important than any pass? A goal could be scored in exactly the same manner, yet we still regard it as a goal. Similarly, your "clear cut chance" statistic could also come about in precisely the same way. And I don't quite think you've resolved the vagueness of your own criteria; a "reasonable distance"? What is that? 5 metres, 10 metres, 30 metres? It's utterly arbitrary. The assist is an entirely intuitive and clear-cut measure, hence why it's recognised by just about everyone as the most important measure of a players attacking prowess after their goalscoring record.

Edited by pre Madonna - 28 Dec 2017 at 11:25pm

The O'Shea wrote: The old cop-out, "everything's arbitrary so I can't be wrong!". Why am I not surprised PM... What are the few statistics which are not arbitrary in that case? And explain to me why they are less arbitrary than that of the assist?

Roberto Baggio wrote: The night Everton beat Swansea recently Wayne Rooney overtook Cesc Fabregas (I think) to go second in the all time Premier League assists table. His first "assist" that night was when his penalty hit the post and Calvert Lewin scored the rebound and his second was a square 5 yard pass in the centre of the field which Sigurdsson took and ran on and struck in a great goal from about 25 yards.   Now of course all of his previous 100-odd assists or whatever it was were hardly this fortunate, but it kind of supports Pre Madonna's point.   Assists are very important for fantasy football though!

So awful against Spurs that he retains his place again Who knows, perhaps Pellegrino is a fan of the "assist"

Had to feel for Long when he was being substituted there. Completely frustrated

He is more athlete than footballer.

the drought is over

He’s actually scored