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oldbilly View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldbilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 7:04am
Some great points on here.another thing to consider is the utterly stupid system of playing your rivals 3 times,familiarity breeds etc.,i havent seen anyone bar my own side more than twice and i bet a lot of other fansare similar.now sometimes this was financial ie broke midweek,but a lot of times it was not bothering away because i knew id be seeing the same opposition at least twice more.repitition is not a crowd puller.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 9:22am
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

I'd be in favour of a 22 game league season.
Sounds mental but it works in Iceland. Albeit they have a much more generous FA than here.

Possibly split it after that for a total of 27 games.

Or

Play offs after 22 games. Similar to the pro 12.

Obviously for that to work prize money would need a big increase.

To supplement smaller clubs gates we could have a round robin round in the FAI cup with the European clubs excluded.

No replays in the cup before the semi final.

The goal of all that would be to have no more than 1 game a week.

For anyone saying "oh no shur clubs wouldn't have enough games".
On average, LOI grounds are 25% full on match nights.
I would imagine it's costing alot of clubs more money to open the gate then they take in.
Most clubs are being propped up by people reaching into their own pockets or good sponsors.

Barring that just go with a 10 team league.
2 automatic relegation spots and 1 relegation play off.
A play off for the last European place.
Turn it into a wolf pit with no midtable.


This would probably be the most likely and I think would be successful to some extent. As mentioned a pyramid structure is vital to the future of the game in Ireland. The whole system needs to be uprooted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 10:40am
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:



I actually think a 22 game, 12 team division is a good shout. Familiarity does affect attendences and there is an over saturation of too many games condensed into too small a calender. Play each team in the division home and away once like a proper league format.

The season would still last 40 weeks and you could have:
- 1 league game per week. No more mid week games
- Designated cup weekends right from the 1st round to the semi final. No league games to be played on these weeks. ( maybe when they redevelop Dayler to circa 15k, play both semi-finals there back to back as a double header.)
- Teams playing in Europe get a week off to prepare for fixtures
- Scrap the league cup or remove the teams who qualify for Europe from it
- More room to play around with of games need to be postponed
But the reality is the familiarity increases crowds. A 10 team division with 4 games versus rivals and challenging teams will see a bigger net attandence than 1 larger division with smaller teams.
 
No disrespect to UCD, but we will always get a bigger crowd when Bohs or Pats roll in, even if it is twice a year. Also every game can matter if there 4 European places and 2 relegated plus a playoff. Smaller league, increased quality and bring clubs up into the first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

Some great points on here.another thing to consider is the utterly stupid system of playing your rivals 3 times,familiarity breeds etc.,i havent seen anyone bar my own side more than twice and i bet a lot of other fansare similar.now sometimes this was financial ie broke midweek,but a lot of times it was not bothering away because i knew id be seeing the same opposition at least twice more.repitition is not a crowd puller.
So what do you do? Have a 16 team league when there aren't 16 sides good enough for the Premier and probably never will be? I'd be more  in favour of an 8 team league than that, the problem being the geographic spread. Far more competition and intensity, very few meaningless matches and only cutting the season by 5 games. There is no way in the world that the clubs would go for it though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 12:48pm
I think there is a very big drive to cut the PD to 10 clubs. Problem is clubs will only vote if they think they will be in that 10 - so the likes of Sligo, Drogs, Longford etc will vote it down.
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

I think there is a very big drive to cut the PD to 10 clubs. Problem is clubs will only vote if they think they will be in that 10 - so the likes of Sligo, Drogs, Longford etc will vote it down.
This is a massive stumbling block alright. As mentioned before I think two senior national divisions of 8 clubs supported by three regional feeder leagues and in turn fed by local leagues is the way forward. The only way this could ever be done is if there was tv money on the table to incentivise clubs would be with tv money or the like and that would never happen.
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 1:46pm
TV money is another days work - we are the only sport anywhere in the world, ever, that in effect pay to have games televised. Personally I don't blame RTE, they got a great deal. It was those who negotiated the deal on our behalf that were derelict.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CillDara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:


Barring that just go with a 10 team league.
2 automatic relegation spots and 1 relegation play off.
A play off for the last European place.
Turn it into a wolf pit with no midtable.

That could be a good idea, it would make it interesting for all clubs, Bray, Galway, Sligo, Bohs and Pats have had nothing to play for for a while now really. It would mean two more clubs dropping down to the graveyard that is the first division which could be risky, but it would also mean that even if you're the likes of Shels or Waterford who are having a poor season in the first division it is not unrealistic to say that with two good seasons in a row you could be in contention for European football (1st year - promotion, 2nd year - European play off spot). I'm surprised they haven't tried it before. Only worry I would have is that the first division is such a disaster to be in that it could kill clubs even more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevincronin2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 8:00pm
1287 at cork city's u19 game tonight. Very good considering the games on TV. Tickets were €5 for adults and €1 for kids.

Edited by kevincronin2000 - 19 Oct 2016 at 8:12pm
time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it.
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zizu Kilbane View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zizu Kilbane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 11:03pm
Roma in the next round too...do they have them at the cross?
"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xpro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 12:46am
A big problem for our league is the geographical spread. It`s easy for us here in Dublin or even in Leinster to follow our team both home and away, when seven of the twelve PD clubs play in the province.

I was originally opposed to the 10-team PD on the grounds of over-familiarity but the concept that "Bitored" presents makes sense. Besides, a 27 game season might help to eliminate those farcical Mon/Tues night fixtures. But then, who decides which clubs play in this 10-team league?

Based on the evidence of this season, I can see four indisputable candidates - Dundalk, Cork, Derry and the ever-improving Sligo. Add in the Dublin trio of Rovers, Pats and Bohs and who`s left? Limerick, Galway and one other club. The "one other club" is where it gets contentious but we definitely need to revamp the format of the league.     
  
"If you fail to prepare, you`re prepared to fail" - Mark Spitz
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ybigeejit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 1:40am
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

Roma in the next round too...do they have them at the cross?

Pretty sure it follows the same format so home and away. Great crowd for an underage game. Fair play to Cork
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 9:03am
Originally posted by Xpro Xpro wrote:

A big problem for our league is the geographical spread. It`s easy for us here in Dublin or even in Leinster to follow our team both home and away, when seven of the twelve PD clubs play in the province.

I was originally opposed to the 10-team PD on the grounds of over-familiarity but the concept that "Bitored" presents makes sense. Besides, a 27 game season might help to eliminate those farcical Mon/Tues night fixtures. But then, who decides which clubs play in this 10-team league?

Based on the evidence of this season, I can see four indisputable candidates - Dundalk, Cork, Derry and the ever-improving Sligo. Add in the Dublin trio of Rovers, Pats and Bohs and who`s left? Limerick, Galway and one other club. The "one other club" is where it gets contentious but we definitely need to revamp the format of the league.     
  

Just send 3 down next year if you were to do this. I actually think BoR's suggestion has the right mix of traditional and new. Many will argue something more dramatic has to happen but small steps. Going back to 12-team premier was a mistake. With European football possible from 5th up and Relegation possible from 8th down you'd have very little dead rubbers. The licensing requirements should be increasingly stringent too to improve facilities in this smaller league. We have talent coming through there is no sense in paying journey men money that could go to improving the match night experience.
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 12:40pm
Bitored's suggestion is the best i heard. I dont like the idea of a play off to decide the winner but relegation and a european stop will help make the mid to lower places team's games more interesting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 9:16pm
I'd go a different way altogether.

Have 3 regional conferences of 7 teams each; Dublin, Southern and Northern.

Teams would play against their conference rivals home and away, while they would play teams from the other conferences only once. Home and away fixtures would alternate every season.

Every team would have 12 local conference games, and 14 games against other conference teams.

There'd be no relegation.

The 3 winners of each conference would progress to a Champions Group. The 3 second placed teams would play-off, and the winner of the play-off would be added to the Champions Group as the 4th team.

These teams would then play each other home and away to decide who wins the trophy.

It would look like this, if it existed now

DUBLIN CONFERENCE
Shamrock Rovers
St Patrick's Athletic
Bray Wanderers
Bohemians
UCD
Shelbourne
Cabinteely


SOUTHERN CONFERENCE
Cork City
Limerick
Wexford Youths
Longford
Cobh Ramblers
Waterford United
Athlone


NORTHERN CONFERENCE
Dundalk
Derry City
Sligo Rovers
Galway United
Finn Harps
Drogheda United
(Team needed here)


Play-Off
Derry City v St Patrick's Athletic or Limerick


Champions Group
Dundalk
Cork City
Shamrock Rovers
(Play Off Winner)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 9:01am
Originally posted by Terzino Terzino wrote:


SOUTHERN CONFERENCE
Cork City
Limerick
Wexford Youths
Longford
Cobh Ramblers
Waterford United
Athlone
You've basically just relegated City there LOL
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AnCearrbhach View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 9:15am
Originally posted by Terzino Terzino wrote:

I'd go a different way altogether.

Have 3 regional conferences of 7 teams each; Dublin, Southern and Northern.

Teams would play against their conference rivals home and away, while they would play teams from the other conferences only once. Home and away fixtures would alternate every season.

Every team would have 12 local conference games, and 14 games against other conference teams.

There'd be no relegation.

The 3 winners of each conference would progress to a Champions Group. The 3 second placed teams would play-off, and the winner of the play-off would be added to the Champions Group as the 4th team.

These teams would then play each other home and away to decide who wins the trophy.

It would look like this, if it existed now

DUBLIN CONFERENCE
Shamrock Rovers
St Patrick's Athletic
Bray Wanderers
Bohemians
UCD
Shelbourne
Cabinteely


SOUTHERN CONFERENCE
Cork City
Limerick
Wexford Youths
Longford
Cobh Ramblers
Waterford United
Athlone


NORTHERN CONFERENCE
Dundalk
Derry City
Sligo Rovers
Galway United
Finn Harps
Drogheda United
(Team needed here)


Play-Off
Derry City v St Patrick's Athletic or Limerick


Champions Group
Dundalk
Cork City
Shamrock Rovers
(Play Off Winner)



Fair play for the effort but I would say that after 16/17 games half the teams would have nothing to play for. If even that. The threat of relegation is vital which is why so many on here want a pyramid in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Fair play for the effort but I would say that after 16/17 games half the teams would have nothing to play for. If even that. The threat of relegation is vital which is why so many on here want a pyramid in place.


Relegation does give the teams in the lower end of the table something to battle against, and it gives the fans something to get interested in, but is it worth it in the long term?

Especially if it creates more problems for teams struggling to survive?

In an ideal world you'd have a pyramid structure with relegation and promotion. However, the conference structure gives teams security and hopefully stability. They can use it to try and build season to season.

If they mess up one time, then they aren't punished severely, and can try to rectify what went wrong the next.
If they find they have little to play for midway through a season, then perhaps they could use the remainder of their games to take more risks. All out attacking football, giving youth a chance, developing a better standard of football, and so on.

Shedite says that Cork are effectively relegated because of the teams they play, which is fair enough. Though,  they would still play get to play the better teams in the other conferences, and they'd have the Champions Group as well.

However every other team is given the security to try and build themselves into something better.
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