369
Printed From: You Boys in Green
Category: League Of Ireland
Forum Name: Premier and First Division
Forum Description: All League Of Ireland Teams Forum
URL: https://forum.ybig.ie/forum_posts.asp?TID=54593
Printed Date: 14 May 2024 at 4:56pm
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Topic: 369
Posted By: roverstillidie
Subject: 369
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:12am
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Discuss. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Replies:
Posted By: ontheball
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:34am
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Very disappointing from the "Irish Soccer public", that less than 1000 people go out to watch the two best teams in recent times in the country. Both teams going for the title. Was at a meeting last night, went for a pint after the meeting in the local which would have about ten people on a Monday night, there was well over a 100 cheering and booing at the TV in the corner which was showing two foreign teams playing without an Irishman playing on either and many of the crowd watching referring to the teams as "We"....strange.
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Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:42am
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So the question is should the FAI go head to head with big foreign games? Is even acknowledging the 'Red Monday (c)' an admission of defeat? ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: sullo-bohs
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:55am
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People need to get over the fact that Irish people follow English teams and choose to follow them over Irish teams, it happens now and will continue to happen whether we moan about it or not. If the Liverpool v Man Utd match wasn't on last night, the attendance figures wouldn't of been much different either, Pat's have been getting poor attendance figures all season. Longford are dead and buried and have feck all going to games this season regardless. People who go to LOI games either frequently or infrequently, associate LOI matches with Friday nights, any other day of the week and there's a huge drop off in the attendance, this problem has been around years and not just last night. Clubs need to do more marketing for games when they fall on nights other than Friday, I understand the english match receives more press coverage but there was little mention of the 2 games last night. There's more the clubs can do other than blame them across the water. ------------- "Napoleon chose his generals because they were lucky, not because they were brave" |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 12:05pm
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Even for Pats and even for a Monday 369 is incredibly low. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Claret Murph
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 12:23pm
Season over for Pats but even still , not sure what to say but fair play to the hardcore fans who were there  ------------- Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days . |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 12:34pm
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4th home game in 22 days for Pats, who are well out of everything. League lost last week for City. Monday night. Not the biggest surprise really. I think it's one of the unintended consequences of summer football. In England, even if both teams are well out of contention, end of season in May is still an enjoyable day out in the heat/sun. In Ireland, the same end of season game is on a cold night in October. Not as attractive a time to go watch a game. Maybe there should be more midweek games in the summer for teams involved in Europe to avoid these bleak evenings.
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Posted By: Nah Nah Nah Nah
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 12:46pm
Might have been the 4th home game in 22 days but there was only 507 there when we played them and going by Soccer Republic there was a hell of a lot less against Wexford. Their core support is really beginning to dwindle. Even the day they won the league in 2013 the ground wasn't sold out.
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Shedite wrote:Posted By: whitesideOnside
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 1:51pm
The falling attendances at Pat's are the most alarming in the league. Some clubs are just not in football areas but Pat's are one of our clubs that we would always look to as a core LOI club. |
Posted By: Daragho
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 2:26pm
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I'm a Pats fan. I was there last night. And yes, 369 is terrible, and worrying. Rather than concentrating about the specific reasons for last night's paltry attendance (and the reasons mentioned are valid), we need to realise that it's indicative of two wider issues: the League's overall average attendances and St. Pats' waning support in what is a heavily populated catchment area. Regarding the first issue, we can talk separately about reforming the league structure, the FAI doing more marketing, the clubs doing more marketing, the positive impact that Dundalk's success in Europe may have, but in my opinion not one of these things alone will help grow the appeal of the league. It will be a combination of all of these and more. And it will only happen with leadership, commitment, resources and time. So rather than, let's say, the FAI changing the amount of teams in the league, they need to support that with a marketing initiative, and not just for one year. For two years, three years...five years. So many plans in LoI football are short term. It's no good sticking up a few posters for a few weeks, or sending out an email about a team involved in European competition once in the summer. Marketing needs to be proactive, planned out and strategic. Appointing a dedicated Marketing Director for the LoI at Abbotstown would be a start. About the second issue, I was involved in a marketing group at St. Pats last year. As anyone involved in a voluntary basis at any of our clubs will know, it can be difficult to get a large volunteer base to implement any sort of initiatives. We can all come up with good ideas, but bodies are needed to put them into effect. And sometimes the skills needed for specific tasks are not available amongst volunteers or supporters groups. I've noticed some really excellent, imaginative posters coming out of Cork City over the last few years, so I'm guessing one of their volunteers is a talented graphic designer. At Pats we didn't have that. And it makes a difference. An eye-catching poster can spread on social media, project a certain image of the club and over time help to increase attendances. But once again, leadership, commitment, resources and time are needed. I don't really know the answer, to be honest.
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Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 5:54pm
This is it for me. It's mental to expect fans to go to home games so often. 1 game a week should be the aim and no midweek games. No need for cup replays either just go straight to penalties. The 4 European representitves could start their season 2 weeks before the rest of the league and play each other. Potential for a blitz there in the RDS or Tallaght. That would leave a fortnight to play with around the time they are in Europe. Byes to an advanced stage of the cups would help too. Obviously, Pats have specific issues that are effecting their attendances. I really don't have any answers for them. They've a comfortable ground and they're coming off the back of one of their most successful spells in their history. Now that European football is gone, there could be bleak times ahead for them. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: corkery
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 6:38pm
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Let's call a spade a spade, Pats are no longer a big club, their attendance have been cat the last few years. ------------- 'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick |
Posted By: kevincronin2000
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:14pm
Agree but who are the big clubs? ------------- time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it. |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:21pm
There aren't any. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: corkery
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:32pm
I suppose it's two tier, but Cork and Rovers would be up there along with Dundalk. ------------- 'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick |
Posted By: Green Devil
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:34pm
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How much were tickets into the Pats vs Cork game last night? What would you pay on average to go watch an Athlone vs Waterford for argument sake? ------------- "He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland," Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:36pm
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Bit of a grim statistic here. Neither Dundalk or Cork would be in the top 6 average attendances in the Scottish First Division. It really is time to shake the league up. 16 team league, MLS style structure, 10 team league, play offs, NASL structure. It all needs to be on the tabe and do something. The league attendance is below 1000. There's nothing to lose. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:50pm
E5 for an adult E2.50 for a child would seem reasonable. That's the value I'd put on it. Clubs being able to survive on that is another matter. This got me curious so I Googled ticket prices in the English 6th tier. Just because I think clubs at that level would have similar issues to LOI clubs. Wealdstones prices are on a par with what our clubs charge. Adults £12 (about E15), Concessions £7 (about E10) The interesting bit was U16s. £2 will get them into a game. They are clearly desperate to get that age group in and get them hooked on going to matches. The current LOI pricing is E5 for under 12s. It would be well worth extending that up to U16s and charging 2 or 3 euro. Alot of lower league clubs also offer discounts for EPL season ticket holders. There's a hell of a lot of those floating around this country. Offering GAA season ticket holders/people with big GAA match ticket stubs could also help get them into games. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:50pm
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It's all to do with success...dundalk were getting crowds in the hundreds only a few years ago in the 1st division ------------- "Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?" |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:51pm
I agree that something needs to be done, every team's attendances are embarrassing, I don't think changing the format will do anything but make it more farcical. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: kevincronin2000
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 8:23pm
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went to the cork county hurling final two weeks ago. €20 in. stood on a terrace but kids were free. Think kids need to go free at least 1 free child to 1 paying adult, kids go free to most games in australia too. ------------- time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it. |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 8:36pm
I just don't believe that. I look at the relegation play offs last year and there was close to 10,000 people at that over 2 games. For me, that proves people enjoy games with a lot at stake. The trick is how do you make more games like that without making it too engineered. I don't think a 33 game meandering league season is doing anything for marketability. Iceland has a 22 game season. We need to get out of this mindset that we must have 30+ games because that's what they do in England and clubs will die without 40 games a month. They are dying in the current structure. Obviously structure isn't the golden bullet and it would have to include a complete plan with increased prize money, sponsorship, marketing etc. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 8:46pm
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Of course people enjoy big games with plenty at stake, but how do you engineer a format where every game has some level of importance without it being farcical? This isn't knocking the idea, but if you start off any such system will put off many of those who have an interest and I am not sure it will attract many new ones. It is an incredibly hard thing to get more people in as we don't have a culture of supporting a team every week. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: PanteirA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 9:00pm
| Monday night is an awful night to go watch a game. Nobody really has the answers to the problems the LOI has. Calling for one 16 team division isn't the solution at the moment either with Waterford and Athlone in financial difficulty this year. Just surviving seems to be the LOIs way at the moment. |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 9:23pm
At the moment!? When was the last time it wasn't just surviving! ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 9:27pm
You're not going to get a situation where every game is important. It's about having more important games. There's nothing to lose now by shaking things up. I fully accept it might'nt make a jot of difference. The most enjoyable Rovers game I was at last year was against Limerick on the last night of that year. Possibly says a good bit about that diabolical season. I think the reason I enjoyed it was I felt like I was watching something of real importance. The league needs money from TV stations and it won't get it trying to flog a dull dead rubber on a wet Friday night. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 10:21pm
I agree with that, again though, how do you do that effectively? ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 10:33pm
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I agree something should be done. NASL/Ereste split season style is what I would opt for. I would however got to 10 before 16 to be honest. The number of games isn't as big an issue as the importance in my opinion. Would also lead to a stronger first instead of abandoning 4 clubs to where? ------------- Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 10:39pm
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Out of curiosity, what was the attendance at the Cliftonville and Linfield game tonight? ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:12pm
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I'd be in favour of a 22 game league season. Sounds mental but it works in Iceland. Albeit they have a much more generous FA than here. Possibly split it after that for a total of 27 games. Or Play offs after 22 games. Similar to the pro 12. Obviously for that to work prize money would need a big increase. To supplement smaller clubs gates we could have a round robin round in the FAI cup with the European clubs excluded. No replays in the cup before the semi final. The goal of all that would be to have no more than 1 game a week. For anyone saying "oh no shur clubs wouldn't have enough games". On average, LOI grounds are 25% full on match nights. I would imagine it's costing alot of clubs more money to open the gate then they take in. Most clubs are being propped up by people reaching into their own pockets or good sponsors. Barring that just go with a 10 team league. 2 automatic relegation spots and 1 relegation play off. A play off for the last European place. Turn it into a wolf pit with no midtable. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:16pm
I actually think a 22 game, 12 team division is a good shout. Familiarity does affect attendences and there is an over saturation of too many games condensed into too small a calender. Play each team in the division home and away once like a proper league format. The season would still last 40 weeks and you could have: - 1 league game per week. No more mid week games - Designated cup weekends right from the 1st round to the semi final. No league games to be played on these weeks. ( maybe when they redevelop Dayler to circa 15k, play both semi-finals there back to back as a double header.) - Teams playing in Europe get a week off to prepare for fixtures - Scrap the league cup or remove the teams who qualify for Europe from it - More room to play around with of games need to be postponed ------------- "Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?" |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:22pm
100% ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:35pm
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The Scandinavian countries play full internationals in the winter off season with squads made up of domestic players only. I'd like to see this implimented in out league too because: - It raises the profile of the league and it's players - Gives the natonal manager real time to assess prospects in LOI on the training pitch - we are going to become more reliant LOI produced players in the years to come - Full internationals can be taken to places like Cork, Galway, Derry again raising the leagues profile - the 1st game in the new Dayler should be a full international, this would fit the bill. I realise that this won't happen with the current regime but it's another idea I think should be explored ------------- "Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?" |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:46pm
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I have no issue in theory with anything that has been said there, apart from double header semi-finals as it would be a logistical nightmare, but the problem again comes down to prize money and the understandable fear of the clubs. We all know that something has to be tried but clubs will be paralysed by fear and will have to be talked around. On top of that we have an association running it who are apathetic at best, it really is difficult and is nothing new. Summer football was the last big change with mixed success, in the main I would say it has benefited the game though. I think the whole game needs a transformation that is implemented right the way up to the top and all the way back down. The under 15 and 17 leagues are a good thing but too slow and with too much pandering to the schoolboy clubs. A pyramid system needs to be put in place, that is a must. This situation where one team goes tits up and is the followed by a free for all as to who does want the place and would sort out the farce of a Munster senior league based in a 25 mile radius of Cork City. But I have digressed away from the original point. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 12:48am
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I'd agree with all that PM. We must be the only league in Europe, bar the Rock and San Marino, without a pyramid system. It all comes to down to leadership and someone willing to take the league by the short and curlys. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: RKeane
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 5:44am
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Sack John Delaney and put his salary in the leagues prize money, just about tripling it. Does not matter who you replace him with as he does nothing and whoever comes in is guaranteed to have more footballing knowledge. Scrap the League cup and Leinster Cup. Invest most money earned by the national team into the league as if benefits everyone involved. Under 16s 2 tickets for €5, more groups of kids, higher attendances in the future. Reduce adult tickets from €15 to €10. More advertising on Radio & Tv. Also somehow get Rte to show a live game every Friday & move Soccer Republic to an earlier time from 11 o'clock. Longer contracts are needed! Some supporters find it hard to warm to a team that changes 3/4 of their starting 11 each season. ------------- YESSSS! IT'S THERE |
Posted By: oldbilly
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 7:04am
| Some great points on here.another thing to consider is the utterly stupid system of playing your rivals 3 times,familiarity breeds etc.,i havent seen anyone bar my own side more than twice and i bet a lot of other fansare similar.now sometimes this was financial ie broke midweek,but a lot of times it was not bothering away because i knew id be seeing the same opposition at least twice more.repitition is not a crowd puller. |
Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 9:22am
This would probably be the most likely and I think would be successful to some extent. As mentioned a pyramid structure is vital to the future of the game in Ireland. The whole system needs to be uprooted. ------------- Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 10:40am
No disrespect to UCD, but we will always get a bigger crowd when Bohs or Pats roll in, even if it is twice a year. Also every game can matter if there 4 European places and 2 relegated plus a playoff. Smaller league, increased quality and bring clubs up into the first. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 12:17pm
So what do you do? Have a 16 team league when there aren't 16 sides good enough for the Premier and probably never will be? I'd be more in favour of an 8 team league than that, the problem being the geographic spread. Far more competition and intensity, very few meaningless matches and only cutting the season by 5 games. There is no way in the world that the clubs would go for it though. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 12:48pm
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I think there is a very big drive to cut the PD to 10 clubs. Problem is clubs will only vote if they think they will be in that 10 - so the likes of Sligo, Drogs, Longford etc will vote it down. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 1:07pm
This is a massive stumbling block alright. As mentioned before I think two senior national divisions of 8 clubs supported by three regional feeder leagues and in turn fed by local leagues is the way forward. The only way this could ever be done is if there was tv money on the table to incentivise clubs would be with tv money or the like and that would never happen. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 1:46pm
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TV money is another days work - we are the only sport anywhere in the world, ever, that in effect pay to have games televised. Personally I don't blame RTE, they got a great deal. It was those who negotiated the deal on our behalf that were derelict. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: CillDara
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 6:41pm
That could be a good idea, it would make it interesting for all clubs, Bray, Galway, Sligo, Bohs and Pats have had nothing to play for for a while now really. It would mean two more clubs dropping down to the graveyard that is the first division which could be risky, but it would also mean that even if you're the likes of Shels or Waterford who are having a poor season in the first division it is not unrealistic to say that with two good seasons in a row you could be in contention for European football (1st year - promotion, 2nd year - European play off spot). I'm surprised they haven't tried it before. Only worry I would have is that the first division is such a disaster to be in that it could kill clubs even more.
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Posted By: kevincronin2000
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 8:00pm
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1287 at cork city's u19 game tonight. Very good considering the games on TV. Tickets were €5 for adults and €1 for kids. ------------- time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it. |
Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 11:03pm
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Roma in the next round too...do they have them at the cross? ------------- "Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?" |
Posted By: Xpro
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 12:46am
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A big problem for our league is the geographical spread. It`s easy for us here in Dublin or even in Leinster to follow our team both home and away, when seven of the twelve PD clubs play in the province. I was originally opposed to the 10-team PD on the grounds of over-familiarity but the concept that "Bitored" presents makes sense. Besides, a 27 game season might help to eliminate those farcical Mon/Tues night fixtures. But then, who decides which clubs play in this 10-team league? Based on the evidence of this season, I can see four indisputable candidates - Dundalk, Cork, Derry and the ever-improving Sligo. Add in the Dublin trio of Rovers, Pats and Bohs and who`s left? Limerick, Galway and one other club. The "one other club" is where it gets contentious but we definitely need to revamp the format of the league. ------------- "If you fail to prepare, you`re prepared to fail" - Mark Spitz |
Posted By: ybigeejit
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 1:40am
Pretty sure it follows the same format so home and away. Great crowd for an underage game. Fair play to Cork
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Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 9:03am
Just send 3 down next year if you were to do this. I actually think BoR's suggestion has the right mix of traditional and new. Many will argue something more dramatic has to happen but small steps. Going back to 12-team premier was a mistake. With European football possible from 5th up and Relegation possible from 8th down you'd have very little dead rubbers. The licensing requirements should be increasingly stringent too to improve facilities in this smaller league. We have talent coming through there is no sense in paying journey men money that could go to improving the match night experience. ------------- Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
Posted By: t_rAndy
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 12:40pm
| Bitored's suggestion is the best i heard. I dont like the idea of a play off to decide the winner but relegation and a european stop will help make the mid to lower places team's games more interesting |
Posted By: Terzino
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 9:16pm
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I'd go a different way altogether. Have 3 regional conferences of 7 teams each; Dublin, Southern and Northern. Teams would play against their conference rivals home and away, while they would play teams from the other conferences only once. Home and away fixtures would alternate every season. Every team would have 12 local conference games, and 14 games against other conference teams. There'd be no relegation. The 3 winners of each conference would progress to a Champions Group. The 3 second placed teams would play-off, and the winner of the play-off would be added to the Champions Group as the 4th team. These teams would then play each other home and away to decide who wins the trophy. It would look like this, if it existed now DUBLIN CONFERENCE Shamrock Rovers St Patrick's Athletic Bray Wanderers Bohemians UCD Shelbourne Cabinteely SOUTHERN CONFERENCE Cork City Limerick Wexford Youths Longford Cobh Ramblers Waterford United Athlone NORTHERN CONFERENCE Dundalk Derry City Sligo Rovers Galway United Finn Harps Drogheda United (Team needed here) Play-Off Derry City v St Patrick's Athletic or Limerick Champions Group Dundalk Cork City Shamrock Rovers (Play Off Winner) |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 9:01am
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Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 9:15am
Fair play for the effort but I would say that after 16/17 games half the teams would have nothing to play for. If even that. The threat of relegation is vital which is why so many on here want a pyramid in place. ------------- Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
Posted By: Terzino
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 2:55pm
Relegation does give the teams in the lower end of the table something to battle against, and it gives the fans something to get interested in, but is it worth it in the long term? Especially if it creates more problems for teams struggling to survive? In an ideal world you'd have a pyramid structure with relegation and promotion. However, the conference structure gives teams security and hopefully stability. They can use it to try and build season to season. If they mess up one time, then they aren't punished severely, and can try to rectify what went wrong the next. If they find they have little to play for midway through a season, then perhaps they could use the remainder of their games to take more risks. All out attacking football, giving youth a chance, developing a better standard of football, and so on. Shedite says that Cork are effectively relegated because of the teams they play, which is fair enough. Though, they would still play get to play the better teams in the other conferences, and they'd have the Champions Group as well. However every other team is given the security to try and build themselves into something better. |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 3:39pm
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I think all ideas need to be taken on board by those running the league, all ideas are good ideas. I don't for a minute think Terzino's is viable though, I don't think such a scenario is realistic, I don't think it would attract new fans, it would greatly annoy the traditional fan base and would see far greater dead rubbers. Cork City would have 12 games against very unattractive teams and I am not sure how Longford gets into a southern section when it is nearly level with Drogheda. I don't think this is viable. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Terzino
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 3:20pm
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My effort is the most different, and the least likely to ever happen. While everyone else supports a pyramid structure, with relegation and promotion, I have gone the other way and eliminated that entirely. Relegation doesn't do anybody any favours, in my opinion. You have a bad season and worse awaits, as you find yourself in the First Division. If Dundalk had been relegated a few years ago, where would they be now? Competing in the Europa League? I think that's highly unlikely. They had a bad time of it, but managed to turn things right around, and they have given the league the best shot in the arm it's probably ever had. So I think it's better for clubs that they have stability in order to help them develop. The quid quo pro for this would be for them to work with the FAI to produce managers, players and a playing style that would translate all the way up to the national squad. The Southern Conference is the weakest, but you'd hope that, with a proper plan in place, those clubs would develop quickly and challenge Cork and the better teams in the country. |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 6:39pm
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You're completely missing the point of relegation. The reality is we probably only have the capacity to have 8-10 decent senior sides. (Decent players, facilities, attendances) The playing pool is pretty limited here as most of our best young players are sitting in English academies. There`s an elite group of 10-20 players and then a drop down to amateur mind-set players that would struggle in the Leinster Senior League. It takes time for clubs to build up structures and getting thumped by Bray wouldn't do Waterford, Athlone etc any favours. It wont increase their attendances either once the novelty of playing better sides wears off. Longford and Wexford still struggled to get 250 of their own fans in against Cork and Dundalk. There is no scenario where all the clubs in the south will magically all come up to Corks level. The fact the First Division is poorly ran is not a reason to get rid of it. Relegation is a must. It improves competiveness and gets rid of clubs that are stagnating and dragging the rest down. Ideally, there should be a system where the likes of Monaghan in the past could drop down into one of 4 or 5 intermediate league and rebuild. The current bust or sh1t model is doing no one any favours.
------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: Cabs88
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 6:50pm
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Re: a 22 game season, 11 home games in a season isn't a whole lot for home Supporters that may not travel to aways. Especially if cup draw pits team away from home. I agree about the Monday/tuesday night fixtures though. We (Longford) had Cork away on Monday last year, hardly ideal for players or supporters. If midweek games are to continue (even though it won't affect us next year) they should be regionalised the same way the EPL attempts to on Stephen's Day ------------- Beidh lá eile ag an bPaorach |
Posted By: PanteirA
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 10:29pm
| Spot on Bitored |
Posted By: TheFieldsOfAthenry
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 1:06am
You've hit the nail on the head |
Posted By: Daragho
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 10:28am
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There might be even less than 369 at the Pats v Dundalk match tomorrow night.
Now that Dundalk have the title won, there will be much less traveling support, and home fans wishing to give their team a send-off will probably wait until the final match of the season, at home to Derry on Friday. At least there is no major English football on the TV.
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Posted By: Terzino
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 10:05pm
I understand the point of relegation, but I don't agree that in the long term it does any good. Teams promoted out of the First Division usually find themselves battling against relegation, and all the optimism they had on being promoted drains away over the course of a miserable season. When the inevitable happens they find themselves back in the First, and in a worse shape than before. They start again at square one, and no progress has been made. The League cannot compete with the riches in England, but I think we can all agree that it must offer our young players a start in the game, giving them the skills they need, and allowing them to mature properly, instead of exporting them to England as kids. Shamrock Rovers have experimented with young players, but they haven't challenged for the title, so that'll probably change. The smaller clubs can take risks that the bigger clubs can't. Use them to create a new era of professionalism in terms of promoting good football, and proper fitness and lifestyle. UCD, Wexford Youths and so on, they won't be fighting relegation or promotion, they'll be crucial links in a national development plan. Players will look at them as a gateway to a life in football. They'll see a career path; start at Wexford learning the ropes, move up to one of the bigger clubs. Get some European experience and maybe earn a few international caps, before moving abroad to a rich league. Teams such as Waterford and Limerick have greater potential than they have realised to date. Athlone secured promotion to the Premier a few years back in front of a crowd of 2,000 fans, so there is some potential there also. Some teams will always be small, but attendances for clubs like these will wax and wane depending on how they are doing. If a team is stagnating on the pitch, then I don't think that relegation is the solution. I'd prefer a more positive interventionist approach by the FAI to help turn a club around. |
Posted By: corkery
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 10:22pm
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The problem with a ten team league is you could end with some very unattractive teams for games, such as Bray, Sligo, UCD and Drogheda all in the one league. A conference system isn't needed as Ireland is a small country country. A conference system might save the first division though. ------------- 'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 5:24pm
Another progressive enlightened post from you. Completely ignore that this year's top 4 were in a similar position to all 4 of those teams in the not to distant past, ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 5:51pm
This is flawed logic. The alternative to relegation is pitting teams like Waterford and Athlone against the likes of Cork and Dundalk. A standard they are not capable of. For example, Waterford were beaten 8-1 against Limerick this year. If Cork or Dundalk got a run on them it could easily be double figures. How would that improve their attendance? As I've already said there's a limited playing pool in the league so current FD sides attendances and player quality would not magically increase if they were in an expanded league/conference taking tankings from Bray. Clubs will be links in the national development plan as they will have 4 youth teams competing in a national league in the immediate future. Clubs could just as easily stagnate in a league with no relegation. In a 16 team league for example, 10 team's could very easily be cut adrift before the half way point. Out of European contention and with no relegation there'd be nothing to play for. The would then jettison their highest earners and batten down the hatches while playing out infront of 1 or 200 diehards for the remainder of the season. Dundalk, Cork and Shamrock simply don't have the appeal in Waterford or Athlone to make a meaningful impact on attendances, compared to say the way Celtic can add 1000s on to gates of smaller SPL sides. We don't have any big name clubs in the league. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: Saint Tom
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 5:52pm
------------- My destination inchicore my next stop being kilmainham Where patriots and super saints are the topics of conversation |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 5:54pm
spot on. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 6:15pm
The thing that really hammers home your point is I don't know if you mean Rovers or Drogheda! ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: Nah Nah Nah Nah
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 11:27pm
| In a thread that was started about the 369 people who turned up at a Cork game! |
Posted By: Xpro
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 12:22am
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And what`s wrong with that, if it gets people focusing on how to improve our league? "corkery" - if you followed the league more closely, you`d realise that Bray and Sligo are teams on the up. ------------- "If you fail to prepare, you`re prepared to fail" - Mark Spitz |
Posted By: nvidic
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 9:16am
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Positive all round at Bray for once, lot of players there again next year, playing well & getting results, managerial stability at long last and the crowd numbers have picked up hugely as a result, next season will be interested. North Wicklow and south Dublin are major population centres so if the club can tap into that a bit more we'll hopefully see more numbers again with a bigger core base of fans, wouldn't mind seeing us rebrand as Wicklow Wanderers to see if it helps at all. I know from Harps, they draw support form all over Donegal which there's no way they would if they were Ballybofey Harps as they had considered calling themselves.
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Posted By: RKBarmyArmy
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 10:16am
| Dont bother replying to corkery, he's a known sh*t stirrer. |
Posted By: corkery
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 2:28pm
Bray and Sligo on the way up, will ye go way outta that. ------------- 'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick |
Posted By: RKBarmyArmy
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 4:13pm
We only managed 2 points out of 9 vs Sligo this season, and they have won the league in 2012 and three cups in the last 6 years, we really cant say much.
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Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 6:48pm
Was there not plans to redevelop the Carlisle Grounds? ------------- "Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?" |
Posted By: oldbilly
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 10:51pm
| Id say there will be redevelopment if the bray revolution goes arse over tit like a lot of other clubs over the years.one problem with property developing owners... |
Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2016 at 10:25am
 I blame Terzinho. If the FAI are reading this please do what BoR said not the one idea everyone hated ------------- Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2016 at 6:11pm
It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Paul Lennon had seen this thread and wrote that piece based on it. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2016 at 8:47pm
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It would be more of a source than most of the tripe he writes. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2016 at 12:02am
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There is no promotion/relegation in that structure. I'm fairly sure Fifa don't let you do that , ------------- "Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?" |
Posted By: Terzino
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2016 at 4:08pm
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That media speculation is similar to my idea but not the same. It looks like a compromise, and it allows Cork play against Dublin teams without advancing to another stage. As far as I can tell, it would look like this: teams in each conference play only teams in their own conference once, i.e. 9 games NORTHERN CONFERENCE Dundalk Derry City Sligo Rovers Bohemians Galway United Finn Harps Drogheda United Longford Shelbourne Athlone SOUTHERN CONFERENCE Cork City Shamrock Rovers St Patrick's Athletic Bray Wanderers Limerick Wexford Youths Cobh Ramblers UCD Waterford United Cabinteely Top 5 teams in each conference advance to a league where they play each other twice, i.e. 18 games. FINAL LEAGUE Dundalk Derry City Sligo Rovers Bohemians Galway United Cork City Shamrock Rovers St Patrick's Athletic Bray Wanderers Limerick That'd be 27 games for the best teams in the country. The teams that failed to advance play in some kind of FAI Shield. |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2016 at 1:18pm
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http://extratime.ie/articles/17868/league-of-ireland-attendances-2016---the-final-story/" rel="nofollow - http://extratime.ie/articles/17868/league-of-ireland-attendances-2016---the-final-story/ ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2016 at 3:08pm
Embarrassing all round really. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2016 at 3:28pm
If every player attracted 5 people (friend and family) it would come to 100 people
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Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2016 at 3:53pm
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2,025 paid into Athlone all league season. That is €20,000 in gate. How do you even begin to run a club on that basis. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: kevincronin2000
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2016 at 4:58pm
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midweek fixtures need to be scrapped full stop with the exception of bank holiday mondays, the fai looked to cash in last good friday using the bars at the aviva as an excuse to bump the attendance, a date that usually has good league of ireland attendances. ------------- time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it. |
Posted By: PanteirA
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2016 at 10:16pm
| Dire stuff |
Posted By: Daragho
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 10:45am
| I wonder will Fran Gavin claim credit for creating an atmosphere where attendances are declining. |
Posted By: Cabra Hoop
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 11:25am
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The goose drank wine, the monkey chewed tobacco on the streetcar line.... ------------- " BFC always gives me a laugh........ " |
Posted By: Wheelo
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 3:03pm
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Now that I have young kids (who'd be too young to stay up til 10. Well bar 1 who I'm hoping to be a regular next year despite the ear ache from the wife), I can see the reasons for Saturday afternoon kick offs. Would it make attendances worse? Can't get much lower. Standard of grounds isn't acceptable for kids either. Brought young lad to his first match a few weeks and had to tell him to go for a sh*te before going to match as jacks are disgusting in United park (don't mind myself, but for kids, women, etc) ------------- "Not surprised you are anti foreigner in your so called Kip of a town when you don’t want a manager because he is Swedish and you want big Sam in charge" - a fine post from a fine ybig poster |
Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 5:46pm
This is a massive issue and its putting people off. LOI clubs are up against it as it is without asking for E50+ off families so their wives and children can wade through 3 foot of piss. ------------- I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona |
Posted By: ccfcmurphy
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 10:47am
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3014 at Cork City U19s against Roma U19 on a Wednesday (Champions League night) , More than the entire yearly Athlone attendance , Great night and City were unlucky not to get at least a draw
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Posted By: Daragho
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 11:08am
| Brilliant attendance. Out of interest, was their much promotion/marketing of that game locally? Any price promotions etc.? |
Posted By: ccfcmurphy
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 11:36am
5 Euro for adults 1Euro for kids , There was a bit of Buzz alright in the fact that Roma were coming to town but nothing major other than Facebook and Radio stations
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Posted By: Daragho
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 11:38am
Thanks. |
Posted By: kevincronin2000
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 1:26pm
best fiver I ever spent ------------- time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it. |
Posted By: RKBarmyArmy
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 4:46pm
| One of the best games Iv ever seen at the Cross, 3-1 really flattered Roma, City were all over them for 80 minutes. |
Posted By: ccfcmurphy
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 5:10pm
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"FAI boss reveals change in League of Ireland schedule and lays out new marketing planit has been revealed that the campaign will begin at an earlier date of Friday, 24 February next year. The President’s Cup between Dundalk and Cork City is set to be played prior to that, although no date has been confirmed. The mid-season break, which will run from 3 June to 15 June, is also one week shorter, while the FAI Cup will only have replays from the quarter-finals onwards" Not much help to boost attendances but its a welcome change
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Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 9:05pm
| Gives another 2 weeks to play out the season, makes sense. |
Posted By: Cabra Hoop
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 9:49pm
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Mid season break is during the weeks of 2 internationals. Heaven forbid if some Austrian fans fancy taking in a LOI game and boosting the coffers of the home club during their visit to Dublin. FAI a shower of self serving ****s. ------------- " BFC always gives me a laugh........ " |