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Claret Murph View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 1:54pm
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For those who are not going to travel to Qatar would you still want to attend the qualifies home and away and knowing full well that you will not go to the World Cup ?
 
As for myself I " was " in the same boat as most on here , now I am kind of drawn between it now as I know I don't know how many more World Cups I can attend in my life time so would I turn it down is a very good question for myself and I am honest when I say I really don't know .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

Question
For those who are not going to travel to Qatar would you still want to attend the qualifies home and away and knowing full well that you will not go to the World Cup ?
 
As for myself I " was " in the same boat as most on here , now I am kind of drawn between it now as I know I don't know how many more World Cups I can attend in my life time so would I turn it down is a very good question for myself and I am honest when I say I really don't know .
I've attended tons of our qualifiers with absolutely no intention of travelling to the tournament should be qualify. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:02pm
It has nothing to do with "being self-righteous". I just don't want anything to do with it and I'm really disappointed our national team will play a part. 
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Whilst I agree somewhat, by the same logic you couldn't travel to the vast majority of countries on earth for one reason or another.
And I could understand that position. I do think this example is unique and almost incomparable. For example, I wouldn't even consider going to Israel and have taken a dim view of musical artists that I enjoy going there to perform, but Nick Cave's recent defence of why he should perform there has changed my mind a little bit. You can take any nation where you find their  views abhorrent and be uncomfortable visiting, whatever your point of view, and you can probably find a decent argument for still going, even if it is only to understand the situation on the ground or because the whole population doesn't deserve to suffer for their elected (or most likely not elected) government. I know myself that my own interest in wanting to visit North Korea is hypocritical with never even considering Israel or Australia.

 As football has become more and more entwined with globalisation, we have seen several major 'clubs' been taken over by families, regimes and individuals that are trying to associate themselves with PSG, Manchester City and Chelsea first and disgusting behaviour second. I struggle to understand how fans of these teams are ok with that, I am not saying it makes them complicit in these crimes, or anything like that, but I struggle with the thought process. I couldn't do it, but I understand the difficulty in walking away from a major part of your life.
With Qatar, I think it is entirely unacceptable for football fans, many of whom are the type of simpletons who bleat on about keeping sports and politics separate, while their game, or what was their game, once, is being completely politicised to prop up a regime that wants to launder its reputation using the World Cup. The World Cup! On top of this, watching the games, even on television, does make you complicit. Whatever you think about the owners at certain 'clubs', the stadia they use, the facilities they use and even why football is played in them, isn't immoral. Whatever about the sponsorship used or the money used to acquire them, in cases, football would have been played in them and they were built in countries with respected labour laws. This is not the case in Qatar.

You could argue, that Brazil, Russia and South Africa were not exactly bastions of health and safety and each had their own problems that meant the tournament shouldn't have been held there, certainly not in the way FIFA go about it,but the problems there are not as deep rooted as in Qatar. Sure, Brazil and South Africa couldn't afford it and have received little benefit apart from white elephant stadia, and Russia was only looking to launder its reputation on a different way, but stacked up against the myriad of problems with Qatar it all seems trivial. As does questioning who pays Manchester City's wage bill. 
People are dying in huge numbers, we can only estimate how many, because of football. One expert's view, that I came across the other day, I believe he was a Norwegian Trade Union leader who has been working with Amnesty International on the situation there, said if there was a minute's silence for each worker who has dies, over two-thirds  of the tournament would be played in silence. 
That is before we get into the slavery, near slavery, low wages, delays in wages in one of the world's richest states. All because of football. 
If you are human and a football fan, you should want f**k all to do with. It is sickening that these people's lives have a price, and all it is is a Coca-Cola and Gary Lineker.


Edited by pre Madonna - 01 Feb 2019 at 2:10pm
you were probably told to leave an Irish centre one night but kept mouthing off and some big church going Gaa player f**ked you out the door hence your hatred for the Catholic Church and Gaa aswell!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

It has nothing to do with "being self-righteous". I just don't want anything to do with it and I'm really disappointed our national team will play a part. 

As a matter of interest did you hold the Russia WC in the same regard ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

Originally posted by ColemanKillybegs123 ColemanKillybegs123 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by ColemanKillybegs123 ColemanKillybegs123 wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

So if Ireland qualify, you won't even watch a game on the telly?

No. I won't either and I hope we don't qualify. I'd rather Ireland had nothing to do with this competition. 

You'd rather Ireland didn't qualify for a world cup??? 

Why do you even have an account on this website then???
 
Each to their own, not everyone is happy clappy. People have different moral and ethical standards.
But everyone here is here to support their country on the football field??

Of course we are but there has to be a limit to that. It's an extreme example but it is the same logic. Would you want Ireland to qualify and play in a tournament where the hosts explicitly stated that they wouldn't allow black people or women to attend? Using your logic, you might think it's terrible but you're just there to support the team on the pitch. Would you genuinely attend such a tournament? 

I wouldn't go as far as the lads, I'll still go the qualifying games but I would want (I know there is no a hope in hell of it happening) that if we qualified the FAI stated they were boycotting the tournament. There is not a fear of me going to Qatar if we qualify. 
They won’t let black people or women attend ? Jaysus every international team has players of that skin tone or women as part of the set up, can you bang up that article, sounds fckin mad
When all is said and done there is nothing left to say or do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:23pm
I love the rebels on here, I won’t go because of yada yada yada, I bet me bottom dollar these self righteous souls have been to Germany , Poland , Montenegro , Serbia, Russia and so on , and had no fckin hang up about any of them
When all is said and done there is nothing left to say or do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by DUBLIN DOC DUBLIN DOC wrote:

I love the rebels on here, I won’t go because of yada yada yada, I bet me bottom dollar these self righteous souls have been to Germany , Poland , Montenegro , Serbia, Russia and so on , and had no fckin hang up about any of them
What's wrong with Germany?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:36pm
All this talk of Qatar

It be going unnoticed that they are currently winning 2-0 in the Asian Cup final.

I wonder how

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Whilst I agree somewhat, by the same logic you couldn't travel to the vast majority of countries on earth for one reason or another.
And I could understand that position. I do think this example is unique and almost incomparable. For example, I wouldn't even consider going to Israel and have taken a dim view of musical artists that I enjoy going there to perform, but Nick Cave's recent defence of why he should perform there has changed my mind a little bit. You can take any nation where you find their  views abhorrent and be uncomfortable visiting, whatever your point of view, and you can probably find a decent argument for still going, even if it is only to understand the situation on the ground or because the whole population doesn't deserve to suffer for their elected (or most likely not elected) government. I know myself that my own interest in wanting to visit North Korea is hypocritical with never even considering Israel or Australia.

 As football has become more and more entwined with globalisation, we have seen several major 'clubs' been taken over by families, regimes and individuals that are trying to associate themselves with PSG, Manchester City and Chelsea first and disgusting behaviour second. I struggle to understand how fans of these teams are ok with that, I am not saying it makes them complicit in these crimes, or anything like that, but I struggle with the thought process. I couldn't do it, but I understand the difficulty in walking away from a major part of your life.
With Qatar, I think it is entirely unacceptable for football fans, many of whom are the type of simpletons who bleat on about keeping sports and politics separate, while their game, or what was their game, once, is being completely politicised to prop up a regime that wants to launder its reputation using the World Cup. The World Cup! On top of this, watching the games, even on television, does make you complicit. Whatever you think about the owners at certain 'clubs', the stadia they use, the facilities they use and even why football is played in them, isn't immoral. Whatever about the sponsorship used or the money used to acquire them, in cases, football would have been played in them and they were built in countries with respected labour laws. This is not the case in Qatar.

You could argue, that Brazil, Russia and South Africa were not exactly bastions of health and safety and each had their own problems that meant the tournament shouldn't have been held there, certainly not in the way FIFA go about it,but the problems there are not as deep rooted as in Qatar. Sure, Brazil and South Africa couldn't afford it and have received little benefit apart from white elephant stadia, and Russia was only looking to launder its reputation on a different way, but stacked up against the myriad of problems with Qatar it all seems trivial. As does questioning who pays Manchester City's wage bill. 
People are dying in huge numbers, we can only estimate how many, because of football. One expert's view, that I came across the other day, I believe he was a Norwegian Trade Union leader who has been working with Amnesty International on the situation there, said if there was a minute's silence for each worker who has dies, over two-thirds  of the tournament would be played in silence. 
That is before we get into the slavery, near slavery, low wages, delays in wages in one of the world's richest states. All because of football. 
If you are human and a football fan, you should want f**k all to do with. It is sickening that these people's lives have a price, and all it is is a Coca-Cola and Gary Lineker.

All fair points and well put. For me, it's trickier as I have a huge link to China, could make the argument I shouldn't go again due to what's going on in Xinjiang but in all honesty, I will be back, the people on the ground don't even know what's going on.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Whilst I agree somewhat, by the same logic you couldn't travel to the vast majority of countries on earth for one reason or another.
And I could understand that position. I do think this example is unique and almost incomparable. For example, I wouldn't even consider going to Israel and have taken a dim view of musical artists that I enjoy going there to perform, but Nick Cave's recent defence of why he should perform there has changed my mind a little bit. You can take any nation where you find their  views abhorrent and be uncomfortable visiting, whatever your point of view, and you can probably find a decent argument for still going, even if it is only to understand the situation on the ground or because the whole population doesn't deserve to suffer for their elected (or most likely not elected) government. I know myself that my own interest in wanting to visit North Korea is hypocritical with never even considering Israel or Australia.

 As football has become more and more entwined with globalisation, we have seen several major 'clubs' been taken over by families, regimes and individuals that are trying to associate themselves with PSG, Manchester City and Chelsea first and disgusting behaviour second. I struggle to understand how fans of these teams are ok with that, I am not saying it makes them complicit in these crimes, or anything like that, but I struggle with the thought process. I couldn't do it, but I understand the difficulty in walking away from a major part of your life.
With Qatar, I think it is entirely unacceptable for football fans, many of whom are the type of simpletons who bleat on about keeping sports and politics separate, while their game, or what was their game, once, is being completely politicised to prop up a regime that wants to launder its reputation using the World Cup. The World Cup! On top of this, watching the games, even on television, does make you complicit. Whatever you think about the owners at certain 'clubs', the stadia they use, the facilities they use and even why football is played in them, isn't immoral. Whatever about the sponsorship used or the money used to acquire them, in cases, football would have been played in them and they were built in countries with respected labour laws. This is not the case in Qatar.

You could argue, that Brazil, Russia and South Africa were not exactly bastions of health and safety and each had their own problems that meant the tournament shouldn't have been held there, certainly not in the way FIFA go about it,but the problems there are not as deep rooted as in Qatar. Sure, Brazil and South Africa couldn't afford it and have received little benefit apart from white elephant stadia, and Russia was only looking to launder its reputation on a different way, but stacked up against the myriad of problems with Qatar it all seems trivial. As does questioning who pays Manchester City's wage bill. 
People are dying in huge numbers, we can only estimate how many, because of football. One expert's view, that I came across the other day, I believe he was a Norwegian Trade Union leader who has been working with Amnesty International on the situation there, said if there was a minute's silence for each worker who has dies, over two-thirds  of the tournament would be played in silence. 
That is before we get into the slavery, near slavery, low wages, delays in wages in one of the world's richest states. All because of football. 
If you are human and a football fan, you should want f**k all to do with. It is sickening that these people's lives have a price, and all it is is a Coca-Cola and Gary Lineker.

All fair points and well put. For me, it's trickier as I have a huge link to China, could make the argument I shouldn't go again due to what's going on in Xinjiang but in all honesty, I will be back, the people on the ground don't even know what's going on.




But the simplified argument is that you going to China does not make you complicit in any wrongdoing by the Chinese state. I don't think you can compare the two. You can compare whether you would go to Qatar now, for work/business/pleasure to going to China for same. It is the act of going during or around the World Cup or using facilities built for the tournament that are morally reprehensible.

This isn't just about Qatar itself, it is about how the sport of football is responsible for death and slavery. That is why this is different to anywhere mentioned, including, bizarrely, Germany and Poland!
you were probably told to leave an Irish centre one night but kept mouthing off and some big church going Gaa player f**ked you out the door hence your hatred for the Catholic Church and Gaa aswell!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 2:46pm
Good point, well put.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LO SCIENZIATO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 3:07pm
If a person's reason for not attending a World Cup is due to low wages/conditions/deaths to workers then I can tell you don’t bother going to any football stadiums Worldwide. Resultantly, your morals would not have allowed you to attend the World Cups in USA 94(Mexican and Central American workers), South Korea/ Japan in 2002( Indian and Philippian workers), South Africa in 2010 ( local and other African workers), Brazil in 2014( local and other South American workers) and Russia in 2018 (Indian and Nepalese workers )  Deaths in construction/exploitation of workers happens in all developed and non-developed countries, Qatar is no different.  
I have visited the Port of Dalian in China where most of Australia’s iron ore is sent. Steel is made there and shipped to Ireland, UK, Europe to build stadiums/Infrastructure etc. There is one camp just outside Dalian with over 20k people in it similar to what is in Qatar. Will this stop you from attending games/ using infrastructure in Ireland, UK and Europe because of the deaths that have happened in the process of the production of the material? Like f**k it will! 

Too many Free Kony warriors on this thread! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by LO SCIENZIATO LO SCIENZIATO wrote:

If a person's reason for not attending a World Cup is due to low wages/conditions/deaths to workers then I can tell you don’t bother going to any football stadiums Worldwide. Resultantly, your morals would not have allowed you to attend the World Cups in USA 94(Mexican and Central American workers), South Korea/ Japan in 2002( Indian and Philippian workers), South Africa in 2010 ( local and other African workers), Brazil in 2014( local and other South American workers) and Russia in 2018 (Indian and Nepalese workers )  Deaths in construction/exploitation of workers happens in all developed and non-developed countries, Qatar is no different.  
I have visited the Port of Dalian in China where most of Australia’s iron ore is sent. Steel is made there and shipped to Ireland, UK, Europe to build stadiums/Infrastructure etc. There is one camp just outside Dalian with over 20k people in it similar to what is in Qatar. Will this stop you from attending games/ using infrastructure in Ireland, UK and Europe because of the deaths that have happened in the process of the production of the material? Like f**k it will! 

Too many Free Kony warriors on this thread! 

Did those people die as a direct result of football? That is the main difference here. Personally, I don't import iron ore so don't feel guilt, nor am I connected to health and safety on building sites in any other country. You are right that there was neglect in all previous tournaments and deaths, but this is the first time, that I can  remember, that the decision of a sporting body was the direct reason for death and slavery. All the others are indirect. That doesn't make their lives worth any less, but it removes the complicity attending and watching. It cannot be ignored.
you were probably told to leave an Irish centre one night but kept mouthing off and some big church going Gaa player f**ked you out the door hence your hatred for the Catholic Church and Gaa aswell!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 3:57pm

Allow me to issue a collective wholehearted congratulations to Qatar on winning the Asian Cup on behalf of YBIG Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 4:26pm

In my opinion the best way to respond to the problems of Qatar is Broncho Stop.........

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by DUBLIN DOC DUBLIN DOC wrote:

Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

Originally posted by ColemanKillybegs123 ColemanKillybegs123 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by ColemanKillybegs123 ColemanKillybegs123 wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

So if Ireland qualify, you won't even watch a game on the telly?

No. I won't either and I hope we don't qualify. I'd rather Ireland had nothing to do with this competition. 

You'd rather Ireland didn't qualify for a world cup??? 

Why do you even have an account on this website then???
 
Each to their own, not everyone is happy clappy. People have different moral and ethical standards.
But everyone here is here to support their country on the football field??

Of course we are but there has to be a limit to that. It's an extreme example but it is the same logic. Would you want Ireland to qualify and play in a tournament where the hosts explicitly stated that they wouldn't allow black people or women to attend? Using your logic, you might think it's terrible but you're just there to support the team on the pitch. Would you genuinely attend such a tournament? 

I wouldn't go as far as the lads, I'll still go the qualifying games but I would want (I know there is no a hope in hell of it happening) that if we qualified the FAI stated they were boycotting the tournament. There is not a fear of me going to Qatar if we qualify. 
They won’t let black people or women attend ? Jaysus every international team has players of that skin tone or women as part of the set up, can you bang up that article, sounds fckin mad

I didn't say that women or black people wouldn't be allowed attend. I was asking the question that if there was a tournament that had such rules, if ColemanKillybegs would attend it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2019 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

It has nothing to do with "being self-righteous". I just don't want anything to do with it and I'm really disappointed our national team will play a part. 

As a matter of interest did you hold the Russia WC in the same regard ? 

Genuinely yes.
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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