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Why aren’t people going to horse races anymore?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Has to be a good thing.  Arts is more important than horse racing.  Faith in the next generation who have turned their back in horse racing.  Let’s hope the tax breaks get stopped soon too and football gets some of the action from the betting tax. 

Why does it have to be a good thing? 
Why would you want tens of thousands of people out of work? 

If it gets public funding it does matter. 


Edited by Baldrick - 04 Jul 2023 at 4:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Has to be a good thing.  Arts is more important than horse racing.  Faith in the next generation who have turned their back in horse racing.  Let’s hope the tax breaks get stopped soon too and football gets some of the action from the betting tax. 

Why does it have to be a good thing? 
Why would you want tens of thousands of people out of work? 

If it gets public funding it does matter. 

But this public funding generates a return.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cildaratown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Curragh attendance for the derby has gone down a lot since 10 years ago. It gets like 10-12k these days vs 20-25k before. Anyone know why this might be? 

I'll try and answer specifically in relation to the Derby and the Curragh as the broader point about people not going to racing is true in some instances but not true in others.
The Curragh was badly in need of redevelopment but when it happened it's fair to say it wasn't that well received initially by racegoers. Some of that has been rectified and has got positive feedback, some things are a little harder to do (should really have sunk the parade ring to allow more people to see). Additionally, I believe there has been a feeling that the Curragh hasn't done enough to engage the local community and I think they have done more this year to try and address that.
The scheduling of the derby itself has been a bit of a problem - Sunday, Saturday afternoon, Saturday evening, back to Sunday. Think it needs a more settled slot. 
The scheduling this time probably wasn't the best given the games in Croke Park and also the weather didn't really work in their favour. But given those factors I think the attendance this year will be seen as a modest success. 

Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree they needed to redevelop and modernize the stadium. The renovation was alright. Still windy but can’t complain about that in July I guess. The races in England seem to be doing fine but don’t have any numbers to back it up. The field is always a bit uncompetitive for the Irish Derby and kind of small - not sure if there’s a way to get more horses to compete but not sure that will increase attendance too much. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trigboy 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Curragh attendance for the derby has gone down a lot since 10 years ago. It gets like 10-12k these days vs 20-25k before. Anyone know why this might be? 

I'll try and answer specifically in relation to the Derby and the Curragh as the broader point about people not going to racing is true in some instances but not true in others.
The Curragh was badly in need of redevelopment but when it happened it's fair to say it wasn't that well received initially by racegoers. Some of that has been rectified and has got positive feedback, some things are a little harder to do (should really have sunk the parade ring to allow more people to see). Additionally, I believe there has been a feeling that the Curragh hasn't done enough to engage the local community and I think they have done more this year to try and address that.
The scheduling of the derby itself has been a bit of a problem - Sunday, Saturday afternoon, Saturday evening, back to Sunday. Think it needs a more settled slot. 
The scheduling this time probably wasn't the best given the games in Croke Park and also the weather didn't really work in their favour. But given those factors I think the attendance this year will be seen as a modest success. 

Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree they needed to redevelop and modernize the stadium. The renovation was alright. Still windy but can’t complain about that in July I guess. The races in England seem to be doing fine but don’t have any numbers to back it up. The field is always a bit uncompetitive for the Irish Derby and kind of small - not sure if there’s a way to get more horses to compete but not sure that will increase attendance too much. 
The field is always small as it’s often dominated by O’Briens horses the owners/trainers in the UK don’t feel it’s worth taking him on at the Curragh so will just wait till other meetings like York and The Arc etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Curragh attendance for the derby has gone down a lot since 10 years ago. It gets like 10-12k these days vs 20-25k before. Anyone know why this might be? 

I'll try and answer specifically in relation to the Derby and the Curragh as the broader point about people not going to racing is true in some instances but not true in others.
The Curragh was badly in need of redevelopment but when it happened it's fair to say it wasn't that well received initially by racegoers. Some of that has been rectified and has got positive feedback, some things are a little harder to do (should really have sunk the parade ring to allow more people to see). Additionally, I believe there has been a feeling that the Curragh hasn't done enough to engage the local community and I think they have done more this year to try and address that.
The scheduling of the derby itself has been a bit of a problem - Sunday, Saturday afternoon, Saturday evening, back to Sunday. Think it needs a more settled slot. 
The scheduling this time probably wasn't the best given the games in Croke Park and also the weather didn't really work in their favour. But given those factors I think the attendance this year will be seen as a modest success. 

Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree they needed to redevelop and modernize the stadium. The renovation was alright. Still windy but can’t complain about that in July I guess. The races in England seem to be doing fine but don’t have any numbers to back it up. The field is always a bit uncompetitive for the Irish Derby and kind of small - not sure if there’s a way to get more horses to compete but not sure that will increase attendance too much. 
The numbers for the likes of Royal Ascot, Cheltenham and Aintree are holding their own (Though I think Cheltenham are taking a risk on this with their ticket pricing), day to day attendances are down a bit. Regarding the Irish Derby field size, you are never going to get 30 horses competing in the race itself due to the nature of it - It's the biggest group 1 in the country which costs a fair bit to enter and realistically most horses know where they stand in the pecking order already after the Derby trials and the Epsom Derby. It's more about quality than quantity. But, as you say, I'm not sure the number of horses impacts the number of people coming in the door. 
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People in general have gone to the dogs Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 6:38pm
It's all remote betting I imagine. Youghal Greyhound track has nobody at it. Prime land worth millions but they must be making enough money off Internet betting to keep the place going.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Has to be a good thing.  Arts is more important than horse racing.  Faith in the next generation who have turned their back in horse racing.  Let’s hope the tax breaks get stopped soon too and football gets some of the action from the betting tax. 

Why does it have to be a good thing? 
Why would you want tens of thousands of people out of work? 

If it gets public funding it does matter. 

But this public funding generates a return.

If you use that logic the government should be investing in private businesses left right and centre that they think will make a profit.  The Governments role is actually to invest in areas that produce a public good such as social housing or healthcare or sports that encourage a healthy lifestyle or have very positive social benefits to areas that the private sector cant or don’t reach.  It’s not to give funding to an area which has many multi millionaire owners who don’t pay tax on their winnings etc yet the Jockeys do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Has to be a good thing.  Arts is more important than horse racing.  Faith in the next generation who have turned their back in horse racing.  Let’s hope the tax breaks get stopped soon too and football gets some of the action from the betting tax. 

Why does it have to be a good thing? 
Why would you want tens of thousands of people out of work? 

If it gets public funding it does matter. 

But this public funding generates a return.

If you use that logic the government should be investing in private businesses left right and centre that they think will make a profit.  The Governments role is actually to invest in areas that produce a public good such as social housing or healthcare or sports that encourage a healthy lifestyle or have very positive social benefits to areas that the private sector cant or don’t reach.  It’s not to give funding to an area which has many multi millionaire owners who don’t pay tax on their winnings etc yet the Jockeys do. 
So, you'd be advocating for abolishing the IDA then? 
 



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The IDA has a very specific remit.  Horse racing does not get its funding through that avenue.   Why does horse racing get the vast majority of the betting tax.  Why don’t football owners get a tax break like horse race owners.  There is very little public good from horse racing as an industry.  It can wash its own face it doesn’t need support.  Other sports do such as football and boxing with actually help working class areas.  What does horse racing do for working class areas other than cause addiction in some instances. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The IDA has a very specific remit.  Horse racing does not get its funding through that avenue.   Why does horse racing get the vast majority of the betting tax.  Why don’t football owners get a tax break like horse race owners.  There is very little public good from horse racing as an industry.  It can wash its own face it doesn’t need support.  Other sports do such as football and boxing with actually help working class areas.  What does horse racing do for working class areas other than cause addiction in some instances. 

The IDA gets public money to encourage companies to locate to Ireland which provides employment for people and also generates tax income. The government invests money into racing which provides employment for people and generates tax income. Additionally, it also provides positive profile abroad for the country. 

To address your points:

There is very little public good from horse racing as an industry: The tens of thousands of people employed directly or indirectly in the horse racing industry would probably disagree on this. 

Why does horse racing get the vast majority of the betting tax: Historical reasons, goes back to when the majority of bets were placed on racing. Now the landscape has changed somewhat, football needs to build its case that investment can also create an football industry that will employ people. And that is separate to the fact that the government should be giving more to grassroots football without any conversation about betting tax income. 

Why don’t football owners get a tax break like horse race owners: Do football club owners pay tax on prizemoney? (As piss poor as it is). 

What does horse racing do for working class areas: Employs people -  do you think farriers, jockeys, work riders, people who work in horse feed factories etc  are born with silver spoons in their mouths? 

other than cause addiction in some instances: How exactly does the racing of horses cause addiction? People get addicted to gambling. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notpropaganda73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 10:25pm
So let horse racing get it’s support vis the IDA. It’s not a sport, it’s an industry by their own words. f**kin disingenuous sh*te pretending like it’s anythin other than a closed shop money making racket. 

The money subsidising horse racing could put thousands others into work. What about them? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

So let horse racing get it’s support vis the IDA. It’s not a sport, it’s an industry by their own words. f**kin disingenuous sh*te pretending like it’s anythin other than a closed shop money making racket. 

The money subsidising horse racing could put thousands others into work. What about them? 


Closed shop ??

Why are people in the horse racing industry and related industries less worthy than those people you reference ?
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Because horse racing is sh*te.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notpropaganda73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

So let horse racing get it’s support vis the IDA. It’s not a sport, it’s an industry by their own words. f**kin disingenuous sh*te pretending like it’s anythin other than a closed shop money making racket. 

The money subsidising horse racing could put thousands others into work. What about them? 


Closed shop ??

Why are people in the horse racing industry and related industries less worthy than those people you reference ?

The Arts Council f**ked up last week and told 141 people they had won €25k each. People were destroyed over that mistake, literal life changing money for these artists to pursue their craft. To give all those people the €25k would have cost approximately 3.5m. This article says HRI are getting 73m - https://www.racingpost.com/news/budget-boost-for-horse-racing-ireland-with-government-funding-to-rise-to-72.8m-ayZxi7N7tbTZ/

So forgive me if I think yeah, there are a lot of people around the country that are more in need of government subsidies  

You want to throw in nonsense about our profile abroad about feckin horse racing, who are we impressing, the lads in Ascot? I’m sure they’re heavily invested in Irish society. Whereas our artists be it literature, film, music, whatever are known the world over and artists in this country are treated like sh*te

Give me An Cailín Ciúin every day of the week over seeing Willie Mullins line his pockets 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 9:20am
Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

So let horse racing get it’s support vis the IDA. It’s not a sport, it’s an industry by their own words. f**kin disingenuous sh*te pretending like it’s anythin other than a closed shop money making racket. 

The money subsidising horse racing could put thousands others into work. What about them? 


Closed shop ??

Why are people in the horse racing industry and related industries less worthy than those people you reference ?

The Arts Council f**ked up last week and told 141 people they had won €25k each. People were destroyed over that mistake, literal life changing money for these artists to pursue their craft. To give all those people the €25k would have cost approximately 3.5m. This article says HRI are getting 73m - https://www.racingpost.com/news/budget-boost-for-horse-racing-ireland-with-government-funding-to-rise-to-72.8m-ayZxi7N7tbTZ/

So forgive me if I think yeah, there are a lot of people around the country that are more in need of government subsidies  

You want to throw in nonsense about our profile abroad about feckin horse racing, who are we impressing, the lads in Ascot? I’m sure they’re heavily invested in Irish society. Whereas our artists be it literature, film, music, whatever are known the world over and artists in this country are treated like sh*te

Give me An Cailín Ciúin every day of the week over seeing Willie Mullins line his pockets 

Honestly, go back and read what you have read - It's ridiculous and smacks of some sort of bias against horse racing which means you disregard any facts when respoding.
What has money for the arts got to do with money put into horse racing? It's not one or the other.

And as for the profile of horse racing, you are impressing owners, breeders, trainers etc who come to Ireland to spend their hard earned cash on Irish bred horses. You are impressing tourists who come to Ireland to spend their money on horse racing related activities - Taking the Dublin racing festival this year as an example, approx 27% of the ticket sales were to people coming from the UK spending their hard earned cash in Ireland. 

And as for your point on Willie Mullins, he makes his money from people paying him to train horses (supplemented with prize money) and therefore is a direct and indirect employer to a lot of people (Including some of our fans who travel to away games) What is your objection to that? 


Edited by Borussia - 05 Jul 2023 at 9:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 9:48am
You can only enjoy horse racing if you bet on every race you watch.  Absolutely pointless sport apart from that.  

Also why do the horses not get the trophy?  Why is the jockey congratulated?  They are only passengers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

You can only enjoy horse racing if you bet on every race you watch.  Absolutely pointless sport apart from that.  

Also why do the horses not get the trophy?  Why is the jockey congratulated?  They are only passengers.

Again, you've done your usual thing of projecting what you think on to everyone else.
Like last week when you said that nobody watches  cricket when you meant that you didn't watch cricket.
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