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What happened in Saipan?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

I think there are enough people who know the truth behind Saipan  and will find some of the comments here laughable if somewhat embarrassing. The stories put out by both sides are smokescreens that have served to protect all involved.

Sure post it up there what the truth is
Not the appropriate place, Baldrick. 
 
It was all over a Tayto-King debate, wasn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

I think there are enough people who know the truth behind Saipan  and will find some of the comments here laughable if somewhat embarrassing. The stories put out by both sides are smokescreens that have served to protect all involved.

Sure post it up there what the truth is
Not the appropriate place, Baldrick. 
 
It was all over a Tayto-King debate, wasn't it?
Beans on the breakfast. Roy was incandescent when the breakfast turned up and there was nothing between the beans and the sausages. When he saw there was no white pudding he was never coming back. 
Then they come in for tea and there was only Chef Brown Sauce or YR, which he told McCarthy to stick up his bollix. Can't blame him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 10:21am
it must be so shocking that a pm cant be send either.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AbuAbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 10:49am
I love this Keane was right Mccarthy was right BS. Keane over reacted and so did Mccarthy. The FAI were like rabbits caught in the headlights. The senior players could have sorted it but got caught up in the whole taking sides idea. None of them emerge with credit.

Anyone that has been in a dressing room of any kind (not sure about millennial's!!) will have seen managers and players go head to head, abuse each other etc and then work it out afterwards. 

I think because Keane was a superstar Mick went too far trying to prove he wasn't going to be treated differently and actually treated him differently in doing so. If Mcateer or any of the others did that article i would guess he would have gone to their room and f'ed them out of it and moved on.

Anyway in short they were all wrong and anyone that thinks otherwise is blinded by club loyalty.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChesterCopperpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 11:09am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

it must be so shocking that a pm cant be send either.   

Or doesn't have any further information
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

it must be so shocking that a pm cant be send either.   
Its not shocking. Decided to let sleeping dogs lie on this. As someone said it's 18 years and a lot of water under the bridge. Sounds like a cop out and probably is. So be it. I'll take any lackery..

Edited by Cabra Hoop - 26 May 2020 at 11:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

it must be so shocking that a pm cant be send either.   
Its not shocking. Decided to let sleeping dogs lie on this. As someone said it's 18 years and a lot of water under the bridge. Sounds like a cop out and probably isn't so be it.
 
Ohhhh no he wasnt " playing with Tiggs " the dog was he Censored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

it must be so shocking that a pm cant be send either.   
Its not shocking. Decided to let sleeping dogs lie on this. As someone said it's 18 years and a lot of water under the bridge. Sounds like a cop out and probably is. So be it. I'll take any lackery..
But you didn't! Leaving sleeping dogs like would have been not saying anything at all. This is the very opposite of letting sleeping dogs like! This is waking them up and throwing them a stick, and the f**kers ran for it too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 11:20am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

it must be so shocking that a pm cant be send either.   
Its not shocking. Decided to let sleeping dogs lie on this. As someone said it's 18 years and a lot of water under the bridge. Sounds like a cop out and probably is. So be it. I'll take any lackery..
But you didn't! Leaving sleeping dogs like would have been not saying anything at all. This is the very opposite of letting sleeping dogs like! This is waking them up and throwing them a stick, and the f**kers ran for it too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 11:27am
Originally posted by AbuAbu AbuAbu wrote:

I love this Keane was right Mccarthy was right BS. Keane over reacted and so did Mccarthy. The FAI were like rabbits caught in the headlights. The senior players could have sorted it but got caught up in the whole taking sides idea. None of them emerge with credit.

Anyone that has been in a dressing room of any kind (not sure about millennial's!!) will have seen managers and players go head to head, abuse each other etc and then work it out afterwards. 

I think because Keane was a superstar Mick went too far trying to prove he wasn't going to be treated differently and actually treated him differently in doing so. If Mcateer or any of the others did that article i would guess he would have gone to their room and f'ed them out of it and moved on.

Anyway in short they were all wrong and anyone that thinks otherwise is blinded by club loyalty.


Neither may have been "right", but Keane was definitely more wrong. He's the one that exploded and then refused to back down regarding his unacceptable behaviour. He must shoulder the vast majority of the blame for what happened, and I don't think there's any reasonable way to read the situation other than that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

The whole episode was never anything to do with the facilities or the lack of gear or even McCarthy. Yes they were factors in it but the bottom line was Keane was on the verge of a breakdown for a while if the stories are to be believed. How many of the squad said that Keane turned up at the airport in Dublin in bad form and looked like a fella on edge? If the meltdown didn’t happen in Saipan then it would have happened when they got to Japan and it would have derailed the whole thing. 
That seems about right to me.

But if he was just a "bomb waiting to explode" even from before they left the airport, who or what was it which loaded the Semtex onto him in the first place?

Perhaps there might have been some personal reason which was winding him up.

But unless/until we're told what it was, then my guess is that as he came to realise he was putting intolerable demands on  himself (i.e. implying he could lead the team to win it), the pressure just built and built, so that Saipan was just the spark which finally detonated him.

A bit like Roberto Duran's "No Mas" moment i.e. f**king off completely when he realised he couldn't beat Leonard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heighway2heaven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 4:50pm
Roy took severe umbrage towards seeing the other lads at the beginning of the training camp, being given the opportunity by Mick to enjoy a few pints before they got stuck in to heavy preparations. Roy, who wasn't long having hung up his own drinking boots due to his demons, found this too difficult to swallow and this, I was told by a very well placed (now former) FAI member of the executive management team at the time, told me was the kernel of the whole fallout. This individual, a thorough gent who was central to arrangements and logistics on Saipan, would be a great judge of both character and situation and is honest as the day is long (yes, there were some honest high ranking FAI officials back in the day!). He maintains it was Roy's inability to be comfortable having others around him have a few enjoyable, innocent drinks, that set off the whole situation - a product of Roy's internal struggles, that spilled out and made the whole situation toxic and then there was no backing down, thus morphing in to surface/gear/preparations issues..

Call all that bullsh*t if you like, I believe what I was told by a respected individual who could hardly have been placed better at the time.


EDIT: Hadn't read the thread. Bundy pretty much spot on with what he's saying. The few pints for the rest of the lads was the spark to the petrol.



Edited by heighway2heaven - 26 May 2020 at 5:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 5:29pm
Agree with Bundy & The O'Shea (H2H's take on it seems very plausible too) but anyone touting how Keane and McCarthy were both wrong is revisionist 50/50 nonsense. One person was clearly more at fault than the other. 

Can't find it anywhere on youtube but I do remember Steve Staunton's take on it in the press conference and how he never seen anyone speak to a manager like that which gives you a sense of who was clearly in the wrong. 

Any legitimate criticisms Keane had of the FAI and the preparations are nothing more than a smokescreen imo as he never respected McCarthy from day 1. He was waiting to explode and deserves most of the blame as to why he didn't play for his country at that world cup. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 5:30pm
So the person in charge of logistics in Saipan said it wasn’t anything to do with logistics but it was due to Roy having a case of bad DTs. :). Sure he is a sound lad. Sounds like.a lad trying to deflect the blame on to someone else. 

Regardless of keanes mood, the logistics were a shambles. Does that keane the excuse to undermine the manager in public,no it doesnt.  But the fai trying to deflect blame on to keane giving up the booze to cover for their amateur preparations is disgraceful.


Edited by Baldrick - 26 May 2020 at 5:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 50%lesssugar&salt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

So the person in charge of logistics in Saipan said it wasn’t anything to do with logistics but clit was due to Roy having a case of bad DTs. :). Sure he is a sound lad 

Are we moving into the erotic now..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by 50%lesssugar&salt 50%lesssugar&salt wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

So the person in charge of logistics in Saipan said it wasn’t anything to do with logistics but clit was due to Roy having a case of bad DTs. :). Sure he is a sound lad 

Are we moving into the erotic now..

Damn predictive text, cant believe it found it considering I have never seen one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 50%lesssugar&salt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by 50%lesssugar&salt 50%lesssugar&salt wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

So the person in charge of logistics in Saipan said it wasn’t anything to do with logistics but clit was due to Roy having a case of bad DTs. :). Sure he is a sound lad 

Are we moving into the erotic now..

Damn predictive text, cant believe it found it considering I have never seen one. 

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

The whole episode was never anything to do with the facilities or the lack of gear or even McCarthy. Yes they were factors in it but the bottom line was Keane was on the verge of a breakdown for a while if the stories are to be believed. How many of the squad said that Keane turned up at the airport in Dublin in bad form and looked like a fella on edge? If the meltdown didn’t happen in Saipan then it would have happened when they got to Japan and it would have derailed the whole thing. 
That seems about right to me.

But if he was just a "bomb waiting to explode" even from before they left the airport, who or what was it which loaded the Semtex onto him in the first place?

Perhaps there might have been some personal reason which was winding him up.

But unless/until we're told what it was, then my guess is that as he came to realise he was putting intolerable demands on  himself (i.e. implying he could lead the team to win it), the pressure just built and built, so that Saipan was just the spark which finally detonated him.

A bit like Roberto Duran's "No Mas" moment i.e. f**king off completely when he realised he couldn't beat Leonard.


One of the issues he brought with him to Saipan was the situation around Niall Quinns testimonial, where the proceeds were to go toward Our Lady's childrens hospital in Crumlin.

He pulled out of it with injury, despite not being injured in Uniteds last match, and despite being fit enough to play against Nigeria 2 days later.
He also refused to write a note in the programme because he didn't like the journalist who was writing the programme.
The media suggested that Roy had snubbed sick children and he definitely had that on his mind, especially considering he spoke about it to Tom Humphries, specifically how unhappy he was with the FAI's handling of the situation.

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