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What happened in Saipan?

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Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by King_Kenny King_Kenny wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Roy refused to go to Iran .
I know. injured

Aye, he contracted "Ryan Giggs Hamstring" at Man U the previous week: highly contagious, the OT dressing room was riddled with it back then.

But Roy being the hard man he was, managed to shake it off in a couple of days, when others would have needed to be rushed to hospital.

Legend.


Edited by Territorial - 25 May 2020 at 3:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tribesman91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 3:41pm
I still think Keane was right. FAI were/are a joke. f**k them. Qualifying for a tournament just means a few people can line their pockets 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by Tribesman91 Tribesman91 wrote:

I still think Keane was right. FAI were/are a joke. f**k them. Qualifying for a tournament just means a few people can line their pockets 

It was actually a case of fûck Roy Keane. He bailed and left himself down. We wouldn’t have got out of the group In Japan if that headbanger had decided to stay on. According to the books/podcasts about him at that time, he was going to explode at some stage and I’m glad he fûcked himself over and didn’t ruin it for the lads who deserved to be there. The squad despised him and getting rid of him galvanised them as a group.


Edited by bundy - 25 May 2020 at 4:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by Tribesman91 Tribesman91 wrote:

I still think Keane was right. FAI were/are a joke. f**k them. Qualifying for a tournament just means a few people can line their pockets 

Like Keane in 2016 then?

Funny how he didnt have a bad word to say about the FAI when they were lining his pockets, or after when the true extent of the behind the scenes damage was revealed. He clearly doesn't give two sh*ts about anything behind the scenes at the FAI so dont delude yourself into thinking that he took some great stand against the FAI.

The setup was a joke but his carry on, from the Iran game which he clearly wasn't injured for, to the threats to leave because of the setup, to giving an interview to Paul Kimmage and Tom Humphries listing his complaints after being told not to, to his reaction to being challenged about that interview- He did everything in his power to leave that World Cup and if it wasn't the facilities that got him into a bad mood to get the ball rolling, it would have been something else.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnSwift Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by Tribesman91 Tribesman91 wrote:

I still think Keane was right. FAI were/are a joke. f**k them. Qualifying for a tournament just means a few people can line their pockets 

Like Keane in 2016 then?

Funny how he didnt have a bad word to say about the FAI when they were lining his pockets, or after when the true extent of the behind the scenes damage was revealed. He clearly doesn't give two sh*ts about anything behind the scenes at the FAI so dont delude yourself into thinking that he took some great stand against the FAI.

The setup was a joke but his carry on, from the Iran game which he clearly wasn't injured for, to the threats to leave because of the setup, to giving an interview to Paul Kimmage and Tom Humphries listing his complaints after being told not to, to his reaction to being challenged about that interview- He did everything in his power to leave that World Cup and if it wasn't the facilities that got him into a bad mood to get the ball rolling, it would have been something else.



Fully agree with this. 18 years on, most people with an ounce of intelligence have learned about what a hypocrite Keane is. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Even the greatest manager in the history of English football had to tell him to pack his bags.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Artie Ziff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by Yiksheemash Yiksheemash wrote:

Roy was our greatest player of all time and should be remembered for that along with his professionalism that Mick McCarthy nor the FAI have ever embraced. 

Stern Smile

Roy Keane as assistant to O'Neill answered that bit


It would damage this forums' reputation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by JohnSwift JohnSwift wrote:

Fully agree with this. 18 years on, most people with an ounce of intelligence have learned about what a hypocrite Keane is. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Even the greatest manager in the history of English football had to tell him to pack his bags.

Yep - applies to a lot of his career, whether playing or managing.

And even in the TV studio - remember, he never had any time for pundits when he was playing, but after he retired he was happy to take the broadcasters' money and give them what they wanted.

As for Saipan, I still believe that it was moral cowardice was behind it. That is, his whole spiel had always been that if you want something badly enough, sheer willpower will carry you through (willpower of the Roy Keane variety, that is). Wasn't he even talking about winning the World Cup at one stage?

Yet when he got out there, it dawned on him that it wasn't going to happen, he looked for an excuse to escape the blame, and a crappy training ground and some missing footballs was good enough for him.

Apparently Spartan mothers used to tell their sons when they went off to battle:
"Come home carrying your shield or carried on it, for we will not spill our blood with cowards."

Keane's version was: "How am I supposed to fight with a shield like that? Shove it up your f**kin bollox ye **** ye - I'm off!"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by JohnSwift JohnSwift wrote:

Fully agree with this. 18 years on, most people with an ounce of intelligence have learned about what a hypocrite Keane is. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Even the greatest manager in the history of English football had to tell him to pack his bags.

Yep - applies to a lot of his career, whether playing or managing.

And even in the TV studio - remember, he never had any time for pundits when he was playing, but after he retired he was happy to take the broadcasters' money and give them what they wanted.

As for Saipan, I still believe that it was moral cowardice was behind it. That is, his whole spiel had always been that if you want something badly enough, sheer willpower will carry you through (willpower of the Roy Keane variety, that is). Wasn't he even talking about winning the World Cup at one stage?

Yet when he got out there, it dawned on him that it wasn't going to happen, he looked for an excuse to escape the blame, and a crappy training ground and some missing footballs was good enough for him.

Apparently Spartan mothers used to tell their sons when they went off to battle:
"Come home carrying your shield or carried on it, for we will not spill our blood with cowards."

Keane's version was: "How am I supposed to fight with a shield like that? Shove it up your f**kin bollox ye **** ye - I'm off!"


Are you seriously implying that anyone would have "blamed" Roy Keane for the momentous failure of being unable to lead Ireland to World Cup victory? LOL Keane left because he blew a gasket, and due to the significant handicap of being a massive gobsh*te he was unable to swallow his pride and apologise for it. I've never understood the attempt to try and imagine up a deeper explanation to the episode than that, it really was that simple.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 8:25pm
I think there are enough people who know the truth behind Saipan  and will find some of the comments here laughable if somewhat embarrassing. The stories put out by both sides are smokescreens that have served to protect all involved.
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

I think there are enough people who know the truth behind Saipan  and will find some of the comments here laughable if somewhat embarrassing. The stories put out by both sides are smokescreens that have served to protect all involved.

Sure post it up there what the truth is
AKA pedantic kunt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

I think there are enough people who know the truth behind Saipan  and will find some of the comments here laughable if somewhat embarrassing. The stories put out by both sides are smokescreens that have served to protect all involved.

Sure post it up there what the truth is
Not the appropriate place, Baldrick. 
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It is a wind up..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

I think there are enough people who know the truth behind Saipan  and will find some of the comments here laughable if somewhat embarrassing. The stories put out by both sides are smokescreens that have served to protect all involved.

Sure post it up there what the truth is
Not the appropriate place, Baldrick. 

Send a pm so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Are you seriously implying that anyone would have "blamed" Roy Keane for the momentous failure of being unable to lead Ireland to World Cup victory? LOL

No.

What I'm saying is that after his spiel of "Why can't we win it?" or "Why else would you go if you weren't looking to win it" etc, it dawned on him that they had no chance.

So he was looking for a way out, and Saipan provided it.

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Keane left because he blew a gasket, and due to the significant handicap of being a massive gobsh*te he was unable to swallow his pride and apologise for it. I've never understood the attempt to try and imagine up a deeper explanation to the episode than that, it really was that simple.

Yeah, but why did he blow a gasket? What was it that drove him to the point of no return?

Remember, as a massive gobsh*te, Keane spent his whole career losing it. A (temporary) lack of traiining equipment was just another of Keane's Five-A-Day reasons for losing it.

Whatever else, he's not stupid and he will have known that this episode would be career-defining. I'm sure he could have found a way of defusing it had he wanted.

But he didn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 11:32pm
why is there some apparent alternate universe where “the real story” is being discussed? In 18 years I’ve heard the same story told by many different players and the odd second hand account from a back room member who were there that night and it all ties in with the same thing - Keane was a headbanger who finally lost it. There’s no back story, there’s no smoke and mirrors. The man is a nutter and had a meltdown over there.

All of this crap we’ve been told about him being the ultimate captain and a great leader. It’s all bollocks. He threw his toys out of the pram and when McCarthy didn’t suck him off or massage his ego Keane couldn’t take it. It says an awful lot about him that when he left the room after the outburst, the whole squad turned immediately to McCarthy and said they were in full support of him. The whole squad were probably tired of his carry on anyway. From not turning up to friendlies for years to faking an injury in a World Cup playoff game, they all saw through him - some captain and a real model professional he was . If Keane had such a problem with the FAI then the professional thing to do would have been to suck it up, prepare for the World Cup then when it was all over voice his disgust at the FAI. 

The whole episode was never anything to do with the facilities or the lack of gear or even McCarthy. Yes they were factors in it but the bottom line was Keane was on the verge of a breakdown for a while if the stories are to be believed. How many of the squad said that Keane turned up at the airport in Dublin in bad form and looked like a fella on edge? If the meltdown didn’t happen in Saipan then it would have happened when they got to Japan and it would have derailed the whole thing. 


Edited by bundy - 25 May 2020 at 11:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 8:19am
Yer CH i think if it's something to do with his wife or family then maybe not post it but like most if you have something to say then say it .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 8:25am
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

I think there are enough people who know the truth behind Saipan  and will find some of the comments here laughable if somewhat embarrassing. The stories put out by both sides are smokescreens that have served to protect all involved.


Sure post it up there what the truth is
Not the appropriate place, Baldrick. 


This is an appropriate place, It's an Ireland supporters fans forum.
If you know something whether it be true or otherwise, spit it out.

18 years have passed etc....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 9:38am
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

I think there are enough people who know the truth behind Saipan  and will find some of the comments here laughable if somewhat embarrassing. The stories put out by both sides are smokescreens that have served to protect all involved.


Sure post it up there what the truth is
Not the appropriate place, Baldrick. 


This is an appropriate place, It's an Ireland supporters fans forum.
If you know something whether it be true or otherwise, spit it out.

18 years have passed etc....


Agreed its hardly the JFK assassination/Watergate in the grand scheme of things
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