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What do you realistically expect from new manager?
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Charlo View Drop Down
Alan Kernaghan
Alan Kernaghan


Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Location: Belfast
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Points: 141 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 1:43am
Originally posted by Charlo Charlo wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Dry your eyes Confused 

You clearly wrote "none of the rest of our squad have experience at this level" , to which i replied John O'Shea, is it a crime to have an input into a comment when it clearly needed one? 

No, i don't post on here to be a smartarse nor to look for arguments as i find that lark rather pointless tbh. 

Can i ask you, what does it matter if our players have European experience or not? I mean i would rather most of our squad playing week in week out in the EPL, than playing in some lesser quality league so they can get 6-8 European games a season. Don't let what the likes of teams at our level like Slovenian, Slovakian, Danish etc players experience fool you in regard to playing European football. The fact is the majority of the big guns in Europe have their first eleven's filled with players from the cream of World Football i.e. Italians, Spaniards, French, Argentinians, Brazilians, English, Dutch, Portuguese, German etc.


Im not really sure why you bring Everton into being a Champions League side in most country bar 3/4 when I say they made top 4 probably once and then you pull me up again later and say they are in the top 6 (which doesn't get you Champs Lge football).

Folk go on about Moyes and Everton.....came in the top 4 once perhaps, and an FA Cup final........not exactly regular top performers are they?

Good club and folk connected with it too I like though
Look at Everton for example, they would probably be a Champions League side in every country in Europe bar from 3/4 leagues. 
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Charlo View Drop Down
Alan Kernaghan
Alan Kernaghan


Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Location: Belfast
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Points: 141 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 1:46am
Originally posted by athlonecelt athlonecelt wrote:

You can argue that we shouldnt  be that good because of small population, or Gaa and rugby but the argument of players in Europe is bollox.
Completely flawed argument. 

All Irish players go to England. Thats the place to be (McGeady ok, but he even wants to be in England) Thing is most of the worlds players now want to be in England. It wasnt like that when we had Mcgrath, Moran, Stapleton , Houghton, Whelan, Brady. At that time there were as good players playing in Scotland for Rangers as were playing in England. And they never wanted to move. Rangers had as many England Internationals as any English team. There were no Africans, Asians, South Americans (ok one or two). The best in Europe played in Europe and not England.

Every player in the world wants to be in England now, so its hard to expect Irish lads to be playing in the best 4 teams in the most competitive team in the world. 
If you put up the best 11 Irish players that could be signed up by ANY team playing European football, you can guarantee they would be signed.



Why is England the place to be? Why do all Irish lads go as you say?
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Charlo View Drop Down
Alan Kernaghan
Alan Kernaghan


Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Location: Belfast
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Points: 141 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 1:52am
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

In an ideal world of course, we would have plenty of our regular players playing European football year in year out, but we don't have that luxury. Still the majority of our squad plays in one of the best leagues in the world which is a lot better than playing for someone like FC Twente or FC Basel (examples) who get the odd good run in Europe every now and again but play in a domestic leagues which are far inferior to the EPL. 

There were simply no players from the LOI good enough to be selected for our Euro 2012 squad? 

I am not embarrassed by that stat because that is the harsh reality, none of those guys are good of the required standard. 


Green Devil.......we have just hired a coach from one of these inferior leagues to oversee our football development from youths to under 21s.
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Mulvanystrasse View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
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Points: 2015 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mulvanystrasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 3:20am
The current Irish squad are where they are club wise for a couple of reasons: (1) The current squad does not have any top class players like Liam Brady, Paul McGrath or Roy Keane. (2) The top EPL clubs are paying stupid amounts of money to attract/retain top talent. England is currently where the money is, 20 years ago it was Italy. Irish players can make better money at one of the deadwood EPL clubs than they could at Borussia Dortmund for example where Mats Hummels is the highest payed player at EUR 100k a week. However unlike the EPL clubs Dortmund are still very much still in the Champions League.
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Charlo View Drop Down
Alan Kernaghan
Alan Kernaghan


Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Location: Belfast
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Points: 141 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 4:36am
[QUOTE=Green Devil] Dry your eyes Confused 

You clearly wrote "none of the rest of our squad have experience at this level" , to which i replied John O'Shea, is it a crime to have an input into a comment when it clearly needed one? 

No, i don't post on here to be a smartarse nor to look for arguments as i find that lark rather pointless tbh. 

Can i ask you, what does it matter if our players have European experience or not? I mean i would rather most of our squad playing week in week out in the EPL, than playing in some lesser quality league so they can get 6-8 European games a season. Don't let what the likes of teams at our level like Slovenian, Slovakian, Danish etc players experience fool you in regard to playing European football. The fact is the majority of the big guns in Europe have their first eleven's filled with players from the cream of World Football i.e. Italians, Spaniards, French, Argentinians, Brazilians, English, Dutch, Portuguese, German etc.


Green Devil.......just on the European aspect. Playing at another level, a higher level is like acquiring a new string to your bow as they say. Players will move to clubs to play European football whilst also to make a buck.

Clubs that play in Europe are as a result of finishing in the top 4 to 6 places in their league. In order to do that your team wins more games than it looses, confidence grows and you improve as a player, a winning mentality is induced and your also learning other styles, systems of how to play. Indeed you'll learn how to hold out for a win or shut shop in two legged football.

With respect to the Austrian team we played below;

Lindner (GK) - Austria Vienna (Club playing in Europe seasons 06-07CL & Europa/ 07-08 Europa / 08-09 Europa / 09-10 Europa / 10-11 Europa / 11-12 Europa)

Dragovic (DF)- Basel (Club playing in Europe 05-06 CL 05-06 Europa / 06-07 Europa / 07-08 Europa / 08-09 CL 08-09 Europa / 09-10 Europa / 10-11 CL 10/11 Europa / 11-12 CL / 12-13 Europa)

Fuchs (DF) - Schalke (Club playing in Europe 07-08 CL / 08-09 CL / 10-11 CL / 11-12 Europa / 12-13 CL)

Pogatetz (DF) West Ham (EPL Mid Table Club)

Garics (DF) Bologna (Serie A Mid Table Club)

Alaba (MF) Bayern Munich (Im sure you are aware of their European pedigree)

Harnik (MF) Stuttgart (Club playing in Europe 05-06 Europa / 07-08 CL / 08-09 Europa /09-10 CL / 10-11 Europa / 11-12 Europa)

Kavlak - Besikatas (Club playing in Europe 06-07 Europa / 07-08 CL / 08-09 Europa / 09-10 CL / 10-11 Europa / 11-12 Europa)

Januzovic - Werder Bremen (Club playing in Europe 05-06 CL / 06-07 CL 06/07 Europa / 07-08 Europa / 08-09 CL 08-09 Europa / 09-10 Europa / 10-11 CL)

Hosiner - Austria Vienna (As Before)

Subs;

Baumgartlinger - Mainz (Bundeliga Mid Table Club)

Janko - Trabzonspor (10-11 Europa / 11-12 CL 11-12 Europa)

Weimann - Aston Villa (EPL Lower Half)

On paper I actually think the Austrian team looks better with respect to their players and where their playing and potential for acquiring more football experience, developing winning mentality. In some of them players there is exceptional talent like Alaba and Weimann - game changing if you like. Others are experienced and played at good clubs / leagues in Janko and Fuchs. Hosiner has a goal a game ratio 20 odd goals in as many matches this year. Harnik has hit 17 goals for each of his last two seasons at Stuttgart and into double figures this season.

So for me were kind of doing well with what we got in fairing against a side like Austria. At best were on a par with them and certainly not a given to beat teams like them but should and need to if we are to qualify.
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deise316 View Drop Down
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Points: 10921 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 4:58am
Some excellent stuff in those posts Charlo Clap.

Mentioned in another post/ thread that (of the current squad), I think Coleman & McCarthy are the only players we have technically proficent enough to go to one of the top 4 teams ( The Manchesters, Chelsea, Arsenal, maybe Spurs) and play in the CL year on year, as these teams consistently do. The fact John O'Shea was in this select grouping all of 3 years ago is really neither here nor there today. Yes, at the moment his experience is (in my opinion) invaluable for us in that he is unlikely to be phased by the likes of playing against Zlatan etc, as he would have faced better players in the past, but as his age is against him, those days will become an ever distant memory as time goes on. 

Never mind the CL, as things stand, there are 3 English clubs in the last 8 of the Europa league, without an Irish player amongst them, in what is very much a secondary competition. Would generally agree with Charlo that regular exposure to such games would be a benefit to our players. While a new manager may decide to implement a new style of play, there is not much going on at EPL club level to suggest our players have the wherewithal to implement such a plan, at least, not enough of them.
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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