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Were the England Golden Generation overrated?
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Roy Keane
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Points: 10659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by nirvana2024 nirvana2024 wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

His issue is that he cannot swivel like a Rodri or a Busquets or a Xavi or Modric which you need to be able to do to be a world class centre mid.  He runs in straight lines.  

To be fair I’m not trying to argue him as better that certain players. I’m not arguing that he is on a level of somebody like Modric. But I disagree he is overrated or limited as a passer.


He is a limited passer in the sense that he can't get turned on the ball to make a forward pass when  pressed. this was particularly evident against the USA.

It showed as well when Arsenal played Porto and Rice was played in  a deep role in midfield . Porto played with a low block and Rice wasn't able to play a line breaking pass to break the low block .

Just because Rice can play a long ball when is he under no pressure, doesn't mean he has a good passing range.

Keane was said to have a limited passing range, but his range of passing was miles ahead of Rice.

I’ve seen him pivot on the floor and make passes from the deck that would be applauded if Pirlo made them while standing on his feet. And these were not moments where no pressure was being applied. I’ve watched him numerous times over the past 7 years and his range was always developing.
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Points: 37336 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 12:36pm
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Ronnie Whelan
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Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Yes, but it was the same as every England squad down the years they believe they were the best but failed to see that other teams had better overall squads.

England probably had some of the best players individually but did they work as an overall squad? Probably not.

I'd also say they lacked a bit of luck and ingenuity which other teams at the time had.

Let's give an assessment of  1998-2010 time frame when majority of their so call golden generation played

98- for example Argentina sh*thoused their victory they were wiser and exploited certain aspects to beat them, but ultimately they beat them on penalties.

2000 - went out in group stage beat a very average Germany thought they were brilliant under estimated a decent Romania team.

2002- again outwitted by a team with more experience,  and eventual winners in a Brazil team with arguably 5 of the best players to play the game in R9, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Roberto Carlos. The Japanese heat probably played a big part too.

2004- Rooney injury played a part here I actually think a few players came into this squad lacking fitness Portugal just had better players too, when you look at the subs who came on for both teams. But again penalties was their down fall

2006- same story Portugal overall probably better squad, Rooney getting sent off didn't help but again penalties  and the weight of the media didn't help

2008- didn't qualify 

2010- beaten by a far superior German team but again small margins in terms of a disallowed goal. But I agree with Lukas Podolskis assessment that the match would have probably just finished 4-2 in instead as Germany were just better.




Great individual players . Scholes, Rooney , Ferdinand maybe . Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard wouldn't have made started for the top international teams . Too many technical limitations and flaws in their game .

Which is the main reason that England failed at the top level .

Outside of the the three I have mentioned above . England now have far more technically gifted players

Only Scholes and Ferdinand start for the England team of today. Maybe young rooney but he had only one good tournament for England.
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Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Yes, but it was the same as every England squad down the years they believe they were the best but failed to see that other teams had better overall squads.

England probably had some of the best players individually but did they work as an overall squad? Probably not.

I'd also say they lacked a bit of luck and ingenuity which other teams at the time had.

Let's give an assessment of  1998-2010 time frame when majority of their so call golden generation played

98- for example Argentina sh*thoused their victory they were wiser and exploited certain aspects to beat them, but ultimately they beat them on penalties.

2000 - went out in group stage beat a very average Germany thought they were brilliant under estimated a decent Romania team.

2002- again outwitted by a team with more experience,  and eventual winners in a Brazil team with arguably 5 of the best players to play the game in R9, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Roberto Carlos. The Japanese heat probably played a big part too.

2004- Rooney injury played a part here I actually think a few players came into this squad lacking fitness Portugal just had better players too, when you look at the subs who came on for both teams. But again penalties was their down fall

2006- same story Portugal overall probably better squad, Rooney getting sent off didn't help but again penalties  and the weight of the media didn't help

2008- didn't qualify 

2010- beaten by a far superior German team but again small margins in terms of a disallowed goal. But I agree with Lukas Podolskis assessment that the match would have probably just finished 4-2 in instead as Germany were just better.



Campbell's goal should have stood.
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The English are too stupid when it comes to the latter stages.  Beckham and Rooney's sendings off was just idiocy.  Gazza in Italia 90 wit his booking.  Their monkey brain takes over and walk blindly into traps.


In the 2000s the club rivalries meant they never ad a decent team spirit.

Sven was  a weak manager who was afraid of the press.

Technically not as good as the continental sides.


This year I think they will win it though.
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Southgate is the biggest obstacle for the current crop. I think they'd have won the Euros last time with someone else 
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The English are too stupid when it comes to the latter stages.  Beckham and Rooney's sendings off was just idiocy.  Gazza in Italia 90 wit his booking.  Their monkey brain takes over and walk blindly into traps.


In the 2000s the club rivalries meant they never ad a decent team spirit.

Sven was  a weak manager who was afraid of the press.

Technically not as good as the continental sides.


This year I think they will win it though.


Technically speaking Beckham, Lampard and Gerrard were miles behind the top foreign players . Scholes and Rooney were the only two in the team who were at that elite level .

England could win the euros this year but maguire and stones are two weaknesses in the team . People talk about Stones being a top defender . On the ball he is, but he ball watches quite a bit and he has never made the team of the tournament .

Because England have two slow centre backs . Southgate won't let their team of the leash to go at the top team in the knockout stages.

If he wants to beat Spain, Germany or France in the knock out stages he has to do that . Austria to me are the dark horses in the competition . They hammered Turkey recently who are a decent side .
I could see Austria beating England .

I think Germany or Spain are the favorites . Germany have Kroos in midfield who is master a t controlling games which goes along way to winning tournament .

Spain have this new wonderkid Yamal I believe who  could be the star of the tournament .

France are very unlikely to win as they have looked very poor recently . Deschamps is a very poor man manager and picks fights with his players . They also have too many ego's in the team like Mbappe who doesn't play for the team . They have no fight or team spirit when thing go against them at al.
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Points: 1385 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto_Carlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 1:46pm
On a separate note, have footballers got worse since the England golden generation?

Argentina (who won the WC ffs)
Brazil
Holland 
Italy
Germany 

All seem to have teams full of very average players in comparison to their counterparts twenty years ago. Maybe it's looking back with nostalgia, or maybe the players are just over coached and all play in a similar way?
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Samantha Fox definitely overrated - Linda Luscardi less so.
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Ronnie Whelan
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Originally posted by Roberto_Carlow Roberto_Carlow wrote:

On a separate note, have footballers got worse since the England golden generation?

Argentina (who won the WC ffs)
Brazil
Holland 
Italy
Germany 

All seem to have teams full of very average players in comparison to their counterparts twenty years ago. Maybe it's looking back with nostalgia, or maybe the players are just over coached and all play in a similar way?


I would say most definitely which was typified by Henderson winning the player of the year in 2018. He wouldn't have got a sniff of that award twenty years ago . In fact that Liverpool team that won the league had a very average midfield . Henderson. fabinho and winaldin none of those guys are getting near any of the great Liverpool teams of the past .

That lad at Arsenal Odegard talked about some great midfield playmaker . He made six passes in the first half against an average Porto team .

If you go through all those teams you have mentioned . There is probably only Kroos who is an old man who can go toe to toe with the likes of foden, madison palmer, bellingham mainoo etc .

The new crop of players de jong, kimich, de wirtz, pedri, emerick,zaire,  veerman,barella, bruno etc don't look very convincing .

I could see Spain winning in the euros as they have a special talent in Yamal . I think he could be the next star . He looks a level above Bellingham, endrick , foden, mbappe, haaland , griezman etc.
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