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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Great to see you back down Terrence.  You've gone from the atmosphere being fine  and the worst thing being said was ''jammy bastards'' to admitting it was poisonous with racial abuse thrown in with sectarian abuse.
I have never said "the atmosphere was fine", or anything like it.

On the contrary, I have freely and consistently agreed that much of the chanting and singing was "shameful" and "disgraceful" etc.

But what I will not have is going from there to accepting:
(a ) all the fans were at it (they most certainly weren't); or that
(b ) Bingham encouraged the singing of a sectarian song (he most certainly didn't);
(c ) that it was somehow the worst spectator behaviour ever, considering there were no missiles, injuries, pitch invasions or attacks on any of the ROI players, officials or fans etc

Above all, I will not accept that whatever did or did not happen that night, things are unchanged at Windsor in the 26 years since.

Which is what our prejudiced detractors like you would have people believe.



If I'm prejudice then you are more so.  The behaviour was a disgrace and Bingham was waving on the crowd for more.  Its all on tv.  Just because you can't admit it you throw a hissy fit.  Then you make up stories about transport and try to come up with explanations for all sorts.  You even try to say it was par for the course in them days with your whataboutery referring to some Watford game and also trying to make yourselves look good in comparison to some animals at some other game in Turkey or wherever.
This is what happens when you grow up in the north .  You see the abnormal as normal.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Some false equivalency being made between Jack who was "out of order" and Billy who might have "tempered" his comments LOL in terms of who stoked up the pre-match atmosphere.  

You're deliberately minimizing Bingham's conduct/comments and exaggerating Jack's.  

If Jack had threw the classless mercenaries comment at the N.I. players, then you would have a better case to draw a comparison. 

Assuming Bingham isn't a bigot and acted out of character in the build up/during the match would you actually admit that he let himself down and was wrong?

Look, there was a responsibility on both managers to defuse the tension in the lead up to the game.

Both managers failed. There's that equivalency again. 

But only Bingham gets pilloried, whereas Charlton gets off scot-free. Because Billy's behaviour/conduct/comments were worse in the build up. You'd have more of a point regarding Jack's 'Up Yours' to Billy after (not prior) to the game.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Regarding the video was Jack's reaction not understandable given the FIFA sideline moron who wouldn't let Aldo onto the pitch after Ireland had made the sub? 

Of course Charlton was provoked, and unfairly so.

But my point is, whereas some managers would have reacted more calmly, Charlton was one of those managers who was never going to do so, because he was a hothead.

Which is hardly the worst insult you can level at someone, but the relevance here is that his provocative remarks contributed to the tension at WP, just as Bingham's did. 

Onlike some on here, you seem a reasonable sort. So why cannot you accept what I'm saying, it's straightfoward enough. I'm winding you up about Jack not being a hothead manager. Of course he was. LOL 

You can't even bring yourself to actually admit Billy's out of order insults towards some of our British born players was wrong and he let himself down in that regard. Just admit it. I'm sure OWC won't ban you if you dare to criticize Saint Billy. Then again knowing that homourless lot, they might. Wink


Edited by irishmufc - 06 Dec 2019 at 5:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 5:08pm
I tried joining OWC about 8 yrs back.  Cant remember but couldn't join for some reason. Think it was the IP being from The EIRE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnSwift Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Great to see you back down Terrence.  You've gone from the atmosphere being fine  and the worst thing being said was ''jammy bastards'' to admitting it was poisonous with racial abuse thrown in with sectarian abuse.



LOLLOLLOL

Hard to believe that anyone would actually try and justify the racist abuse dished out by the North's fans that night and then try and equate it to a chant directed at Elton John at a Watford match!!

The one good thing to come out of that night in Windsor was that there was a discernible shift in how Northern nationalists viewed the Northern Ireland football team. Most nationalists realised that this team and their supporters didn't represent them and a lot simply turned their attention to supporting the Republic. As a result, players from nationalist backgrounds that are good enough or confident to back themselves will choose the Republic, whereas the remainder will take the pragmatic decision and opt for the North.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnSwift Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I tried joining OWC about 8 yrs back.  Cant remember but couldn't join for some reason. Think it was the IP being from The EIRE

I have a login and occasionally go on to have a laugh. You'd be amazed at how many of the threads are about the Republic, the FAI and eligibility issues. Its fair to say that its not the type of place where you might expect a reasoned debate or enlightened views!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The behaviour was a disgrace and Bingham was waving on the crowd for more.

I'll tell you exactly what happened. The dressing rooms at WP were then in the SW corner. Bingham was last out for the second half and as he walked down the touchline towards the dugouts (on the half way line in front of the South stand), the crowd saw him as they sang "One Team in Ireland". He smiled and waved in acknowledgement, before taking his seat.
I know, because I was there in the South Stand, singing along with all the people round me.

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Its all on tv. 
 
It's not.
Even the clip you posted only had the fans singing "Northern Ireland" ffs!


Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Just because you can't admit it you throw a hissy fit.
I won't admit it because it didn't happen. It's a lie.

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Then you make up stories about transport and try to come up with explanations for all sorts.
What did I make up?

It is a fact that FIFA requires the visiting team to be in the country where they're playing 24 hours before the game and Charlton tried to get it overturned. It is a fact that CXharlton tried to get the game relocated because he felt it wasn't safe, whereas the game was able to played in Belfast. It is also a fact that the ROI team had to get a coach from their hotel to the stadium and afterwards back to the airport, with nothing happening on either journey. And it is a fact that Charlton imagined that their police escort being armed was some sort of special arrangement for his team, when he was ignorant of the fact that policemen had to be routinely armed in those days.


Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

You even try to say it was par for the course in them days with your whataboutery referring to some Watford game and also trying to make yourselves look good in comparison to some animals at some other game in Turkey or wherever.
I did not give the Watford example in order to try to excuse NI fans misbehaviour. Rather my point was that all sorts went on at football matches in those days, yet for other teams/fans, we don't have people like you banging on about it a quarter of a century later, never mind trying to claim that nothing has changed since at WP.

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:


This is what happens when you grow up in the north .  You see the abnormal as normal.   
There you go again, crudely stereotyping nearly 2 million people, even including those who support the ROI team.

Congratulations.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The behaviour was a disgrace and Bingham was waving on the crowd for more.

I'll tell you exactly what happened. The dressing rooms at WP were then in the SW corner. Bingham was last out for the second half and as he walked down the touchline towards the dugouts (on the half way line in front of the South stand), the crowd saw him as they sang "One Team in Ireland". He smiled and waved in acknowledgement, before taking his seat.
I know, because I was there in the South Stand, singing along with all the people round me.

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Its all on tv. 
 
It's not.
Even the clip you posted only had the fans singing "Northern Ireland" ffs!


Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Just because you can't admit it you throw a hissy fit.
I won't admit it because it didn't happen. It's a lie.

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Then you make up stories about transport and try to come up with explanations for all sorts.
What did I make up?

It is a fact that FIFA requires the visiting team to be in the country where they're playing 24 hours before the game and Charlton tried to get it overturned. It is a fact that CXharlton tried to get the game relocated because he felt it wasn't safe, whereas the game was able to played in Belfast. It is also a fact that the ROI team had to get a coach from their hotel to the stadium and afterwards back to the airport, with nothing happening on either journey. And it is a fact that Charlton imagined that their police escort being armed was some sort of special arrangement for his team, when he was ignorant of the fact that policemen had to be routinely armed in those days.


Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

You even try to say it was par for the course in them days with your whataboutery referring to some Watford game and also trying to make yourselves look good in comparison to some animals at some other game in Turkey or wherever.
I did not give the Watford example in order to try to excuse NI fans misbehaviour. Rather my point was that all sorts went on at football matches in those days, yet for other teams/fans, we don't have people like you banging on about it a quarter of a century later, never mind trying to claim that nothing has changed since at WP.

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:


This is what happens when you grow up in the north .  You see the abnormal as normal.   
There you go again, crudely stereotyping nearly 2 million people, even including those who support the ROI team.

Congratulations.




LOL

Eh no he walked down looking pissed off and determined and whipped up the crowd for more you absolute liarLOL

Too busy to go through the rest of your thesis for now but will get back to you later tonight Heart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gspain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by JohnSwift JohnSwift wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Great to see you back down Terrence.  You've gone from the atmosphere being fine  and the worst thing being said was ''jammy bastards'' to admitting it was poisonous with racial abuse thrown in with sectarian abuse.



LOLLOLLOL

Hard to believe that anyone would actually try and justify the racist abuse dished out by the North's fans that night and then try and equate it to a chant directed at Elton John at a Watford match!!

The one good thing to come out of that night in Windsor was that there was a discernible shift in how Northern nationalists viewed the Northern Ireland football team. Most nationalists realised that this team and their supporters didn't represent them and a lot simply turned their attention to supporting the Republic. As a result, players from nationalist backgrounds that are good enough or confident to back themselves will choose the Republic, whereas the remainder will take the pragmatic decision and opt for the North.

Unfortunately racist and homophobic abuse was quite common in football across the water and sometimes here.  I went to quite a lot of English football in the late 80's/early 90's.  Some were very hairy.  Games that spring to mind Millwall v Liverpool April 89 my only visit to the old Den in the home end as a neutral, Chelsea v Leeds the Saturday after the 1-1 in Wembley March 91.  A friend not normally at English football was totally shocked at the racism and also that I didn't see it as that unusual.  Sadly it wasn't at the time.  Southend v Reading third division April 89 got free tickets for the main stand from a former Reading player having travelled on the away coaches.  Reading scored an 86th minute equaliser from their first attack after a dreadful 85 minutes. I stood more in shock and my female companion celebrated quietly.  She was hit.  A bunch of total nutcases were going nuts at us until Southend got the winner.  

I also went to Northern Ireland v Lithuania at the start of the 94 qualifying campaign. No issues but yes there was probably sectarian singing by some.  

One thing is that November 93 was a very tense time in NI in general.  It was probably worse i nthe early 70's but I was too young to understand then.  That time was the worst I can recall.  I went up for quite a few games at the time and this was the only time I took precautions like avoiding driving at night and the only time I didn't park on the street near Windsor but organised secure underground in our company's Belfast office.  





      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

Originally posted by JohnSwift JohnSwift wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Great to see you back down Terrence.  You've gone from the atmosphere being fine  and the worst thing being said was ''jammy bastards'' to admitting it was poisonous with racial abuse thrown in with sectarian abuse.



LOLLOLLOL

Hard to believe that anyone would actually try and justify the racist abuse dished out by the North's fans that night and then try and equate it to a chant directed at Elton John at a Watford match!!

The one good thing to come out of that night in Windsor was that there was a discernible shift in how Northern nationalists viewed the Northern Ireland football team. Most nationalists realised that this team and their supporters didn't represent them and a lot simply turned their attention to supporting the Republic. As a result, players from nationalist backgrounds that are good enough or confident to back themselves will choose the Republic, whereas the remainder will take the pragmatic decision and opt for the North.

Unfortunately racist and homophobic abuse was quite common in football across the water and sometimes here.  I went to quite a lot of English football in the late 80's/early 90's.  Some were very hairy.  Games that spring to mind Millwall v Liverpool April 89 my only visit to the old Den in the home end as a neutral, Chelsea v Leeds the Saturday after the 1-1 in Wembley March 91.  A friend not normally at English football was totally shocked at the racism and also that I didn't see it as that unusual.  Sadly it wasn't at the time.  Southend v Reading third division April 89 got free tickets for the main stand from a former Reading player having travelled on the away coaches.  Reading scored an 86th minute equaliser from their first attack after a dreadful 85 minutes. I stood more in shock and my female companion celebrated quietly.  She was hit.  A bunch of total nutcases were going nuts at us until Southend got the winner.  

I also went to Northern Ireland v Lithuania at the start of the 94 qualifying campaign. No issues but yes there was probably sectarian singing by some.  

One thing is that November 93 was a very tense time in NI in general.  It was probably worse i nthe early 70's but I was too young to understand then.  That time was the worst I can recall.  I went up for quite a few games at the time and this was the only time I took precautions like avoiding driving at night and the only time I didn't park on the street near Windsor but organised secure underground in our company's Belfast office.  
      

There'd been 26 deaths in the previous month and two of the worst atrocities of the troubles which is why Bingham should have tempered his behaviour. Some NI fans were chanting 'Trick or treat' amongst the racial and sectarian slurs and the abuse raining down on Kernaghan. Bingham whipping the crowd up in those circumstances was classless. There is no argument otherwise.


Edited by Drumcondra 69er - 07 Dec 2019 at 11:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Terri doing a fine job of trying to rewrite history


Let's hear your version, then.

I'm always keen to hear eye-witness acounts from visiting fans who attend our games...
 
I've read plenty of accounts from the likes of Niall Quinn and Paul McGrath, and would take them on face value more than your blinkered views.
 
This.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 10:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martiponti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 12:47pm
Well? Cat bite your fingers, Toryterrial?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Martiponti Martiponti wrote:

Well? Cat bite your fingers, Toryterrial?
He's on DUP business. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 hours 32 minutes ago at 5:23pm
Originally posted by Martiponti Martiponti wrote:

Well? Cat bite your fingers, Toryterrial?

Thank you for your interest.

I was out on Friday evening.

I had an appointment on Saturday morning, went to a match in the afternoon and had a mate over in the evening.

Today I've had a lazy Sunday - lie-in, papers, MOTD on record and trying to dodge Christmas shopping with the g/f, that sort of thing.

I appreciate that that's hardly Hollywood A-Lister stuff, but it's a life (of sorts).

Maybe you should get one of your own - it would at least save your Saturday from banging on on the internet about a football match 26 years ago that you weren't even at.

Meanwhile, I shall return to this topic just as soon as I can find a window in my busy schedule...LOL


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